Opensource 2.8 Dead...
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@JeGr access to the CE development builds had been repeatedly blocked near the time the Plus version is released. The timing indicated it is done not because a pfsense CE build would be unstable, quite the reverse, the problem is it would be too stable with a too larger increase in functionality since the last official CE release.
Actions speak louder than words, it appears we interpret them differently though.
@JeGr said in Opensource 2.8 Dead...:
IF they'd be "killing" the OSS variant, they'd shoot themselves in the foot with a whole so big, that the rest of the body would be gone, too.
I agree Netgate probably likes the benefits of an open source software user community. Which I assume is why they are killing it quietly.
Time will tell if they can keep their cake and eat it as well. -
@Patch said in Opensource 2.8 Dead...:
quite the reverse, the problem is it would be too stable with a too larger increase in functionality since the last official CE release.
Nah, CE is not the main branch they develop on but the reverse: Plus is the new "main" branch and CE is split from that. So I assume they stop a) to focus on getting done and b) to stop CE from getting bonkers as stuff won't run in CE that needs functions or code from plus. So merging would only make sense after one branch is done and clear and not being actively worked on instead of having to clean up and fix stuff at every other corner to avoid breaking things. Just thinking about the whole API function stuff and such.
And yes of course plus has more functions, that's no secret.
@Patch said in Opensource 2.8 Dead...:
Actions speak louder than words, it appears we interpret them differently though.
Sure :) Don't want to force my ideas on you. But IMHO the snapshots being frozen are because of the work done with the API and MIM getting presentable so they could surprise sneak peak them without anyone finding clues beforehand. And embedding a REST API is no small job, so the work can be a big chunk. That's my take, but I could be wrong.
Cheers :)
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I can see over the last months or weeks that Netgate staff help people in the forum, even with CE versions and strange problems. Also we received patches over the system patches package, so I trust Netgate to keep my pfSense safe.
We use both, Netgate appliances and Netgate pfSense CE edition.
satisfied pfSense+ appliance and pfSense CE user
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@JeGr said in Opensource 2.8 Dead...:
Plus is the new "main" branch and CE is split from that.
I do not doubt Netgate only focus on the close source software branch now. Describing the CE as a split off from Plus is not really what Redmine shows
pfSense Plus - 24.08 has 16 issues (6 closed)
pfSense Plus - 24.03 had 10 issuesIn contrast the "Open source" branch
2.8.0 has 194 issues (146 closed)Which imo is the real reason Netgate block access to 2.8.
When the functionality of plus is vastly different to CE then they may allow increased access to it but then no-one will care as the CE will be so inferior, that using a different open source product would be far more sensible.@slu said in Opensource 2.8 Dead...:
We use both, Netgate appliances and Netgate pfSense CE edition.
For forward planned that's fine as long as it's still the correct supplier choice with
Netgate appliances and Netgate pfSenseCEplus edition. -
@slu said in Opensource 2.8 Dead...:
I can see over the last months or weeks that Netgate staff help people in the forum, even with
Look here.
The top 4 poster (but not the devil) = 46K+29K+15K=90 thousands replies. And there are other Netgate forum members as well.
That's from date 1, somewhere back in ...2005 .... I don't recall. -
@Patch said in Opensource 2.8 Dead...:
@JeGr said in Opensource 2.8 Dead...:
Plus is the new "main" branch and CE is split from that.
I do not doubt Netgate only focus on the close source software branch now. Describing the CE as a split off from Plus is not really what Redmine shows
pfSense Plus - 24.08 has 16 issues (6 closed)
pfSense Plus - 24.03 had 10 issuesIn contrast the "Open source" branch
2.8.0 has 194 issues (146 closed)Which imo is the real reason Netgate block access to 2.8.
When the functionality of plus is vastly different to CE then they may allow increased access to it but then no-one will care as the CE will be so inferior, that using a different open source product would be far more sensible.I think it's the other way around where development of CE simply stopped and it's getting further and further behind plus.
Again, protestations aside, if you consider that CE is based on an older version of FreeBSD and hasn't progressed for over a year, it's hard to take netgate seriously when they claim that CE isn't dead.
During the 10 years or so that I've been using pfSense, I've used the release for my main network and I've maintained a separate virtual network for the development version. It used to be that the development version was available almost continuously and the only interruptions were when a new version was released. It wasn't just available for download. It used to be updated regularly (i.e., daily). You could see the list of open and closed issues changing as development progressed toward a new release. That is clearly no longer the case and hasn't been so for over a year.
If netgate expects people to believe CE isn't dead, it's going to take more than the unofficial claims of a few people on the forum. Actions speak louder than words. Why should developers or testers contribute to CE when it's giving all appearances of being dead in the water?
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@bimmerdriver said in Opensource 2.8 Dead...:
Why should developers or testers contribute to CE when it's giving all appearances of being dead in the water?
Yes. But also, as long as it is breathing, it is not dead. As long as Netgate publishes patches, it is not dead. As long as the config is compatible towards plus, there is some hope left. We don't know what the future for CE is. It is probably not the brightest but for some this might be enough to still use it. If they can download it.
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@bimmerdriver Your whole argument is going in the same circles. You don't see new snapshot -> you say it's dead. You simply ignore that there was and is work done with 2.8. The screen above simply shows that. That public builds of the snapshot stopped because it's no time to test them while being unstable is no proof for your "it's dead" circle. And there were multiple patches and fixes for 2.7.2 afterwards via system patches. Simply repeating stuff over and over doesn't make it more true
@Patch said in Opensource 2.8 Dead...:
I do not doubt Netgate only focus on the close source software branch now. Describing the CE as a split off from Plus is not really what Redmine shows
It's exactly what they outlined in their blog about Plus as it was introduced. In the past the so-called factory edition (the Plus before there was the new naming) already existed but was dependend on CE being ready, then after it being ready and frozen it could then be fork/merged over to the FE branch and the custom things from the factory edition could be integrated. That intention was changed with Plus and communicated. With faster release cycles, now Plus is the "main" release and CE gets forked when plus is in a specific and stable state and without the additional plus-thingies. If they wouldn't work on a CE anymore you couldn't up/downgrade cleanly between Plus & CE, a thing they just introduced last year and would be stupid to drop already as it's in their own intent to keep that ability. That's why we already had two? three? joint-releases where Plus and CE followed after each other to have the same config revision and allow easy up/downgrades as needed.
And merging changes from a branch brings merge conflicts to resolve etc. that's just normal so you don't make that even more complicated by actually doing things twice or thrice if you don't have to. So the simples thing is: be done with one release and branch (plus) so the second one (CE) can be merged over, conflicts solved, then you have a state that is actually testable and won't just break by incompatible changes from OS updates, PHP updates etc etc. Simple development logic.
Cheers
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It’s happened again, a new CE release.
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Since it was "Dead" and now it is not, should it be renamed pfSense ZE?
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