Large backup and related questions

gusto

I have been using pfSense for several years and I am very satisfied. I started around 2020.
I have pfSense installed on proxmox KVM.
I always make a backup in proxmox after installation and tests.
The first backup was about 600MB.
I gradually updated pfSense and this morning my current version was 2.7.2 and the backup was 2.4GB
Since I encrypt and send backups (rclone) to google drive, where I don't have much space, I need to reduce the backup.

This morning I backed up the config (xml). I downloaded the netgate-installer-v1.1.1-RELEASE-amd64 installer.
I wanted to install the latest ver. pfSense 2.8.0.
In the installer I set up WAN PPPoE (I made sure I set the correct login details) and LAN.
The installer's response was that it cannot reach the netgate servers.
So I downloaded pfSense ver 2.7.2 and installed it (KVM of course).
I did a restoring (config xml). I did a functional test and everything works correctly.
Then I made a backup and the size is 650MB.
I immediately updated to 2.8.1. Everything works correctly and I'm going to make a backup.
The backup has 1.86GB. Is that correct?
I tried increasing the RAM in KVM from 2GB to 4GB, but it didn't help at all.
I would need the backup to be smaller

SteveITS

I recall a recent thread, ~~maybe Reddit~~, where someone said they couldn't get PPPoE working in the installer.
https://forum.netgate.com/topic/199313/pfsense-vm-on-proxmox-pppoe-only-works-when-parent-nic-is-pci-passthrough-virtual-nic-breaks-lan-wan-traffic/
https://forum.netgate.com/topic/199596/pfsense-25.11-broke-my-lan./

ZFS is a copy on write file system, so any change writes the entire block again. You may experience smaller incremental backups using UFS as the file system.

@gusto said in Large backup and related questions:

tried increasing the RAM in KVM from 2GB to 4GB, but it didn't help

RAM is unrelated to disk usage.

slu

@gusto said in Large backup and related questions:

Then I made a backup and the size is 650MB.

Of the qcow2 KVM disk?

gusto

@slu
I always make backups in stop mode and compress them with zstd

I wonder why?
On pfSense 2.7.2 the disk used is 843M and the backup (ZSTD) is 620MB
On pfSense 2.8.1 the disk used is 1GB and the backup (ZSTD) is 1.86GB

patient0

@gusto said in Large backup and related questions:

On pfSense 2.8.1 the disk used is 1GB and the backup (ZSTD) is 1.86GB

Proxmox doesn't have any insides about the pfSense file system. After the upgrade Proxmox sees used disk blocks from the previous 2.7.2 installation the new 2.8.1 installation.

The method I used (on XCP-NG, not on Proxmox so far) was zero-ing the remaining disk space (serverfault: Auto clean unused space on disks in VM BUT if you installed pfSense using ZFS: if that works with ZFS I don't know.

In the above posted link there is mentioned that you can use the 'discard' option in the virtual disk settings and issue fstrim. If that is an option that works in FreeBSD/pfSense, I don't know.

Addition: I just tested it with a ZFS based VM and for ZFS you can uses zpool trim <ZFS pool name, e.g. 'pfSense' in pfSense>. That cut the backup size from 4.3G to 1.29G.

SteveITS

zpool get all pfSense | grep trim should show auto trim is on for ZFS.

I can’t quickly check UFS but that’s what’s in our one Proxmox router so I probably should.

I checked the various Linux OS we host a while back, and all of those do a weekly trim.

gusto

@SteveITS @slu
If pfsense is on ZFS, then trim should be automatically enabled.
I'll try setting discard enable in Proxmox Disk and then make a backup

Gertjan

@gusto said in Large backup and related questions:

I downloaded the netgate-installer-v1.1.1-RELEASE-amd64 installer.

( keep this one one a safe place - or not, throw it away, as you can get a copy any time from netgate.com )

and

@gusto said in Large backup and related questions:

I backed up the config (xml)

I've even automated this backup.
There is also the ACB backup.

So, IMHO, not really needed to backup the entire system drive, as you can rebuild the entire system from scratch with 'just one small backup (xml) file' in minutes.
No need to store xx GB file on a remote site that you can't access because your 'router' is down ^^

So :

@gusto said in Large backup and related questions:

I would need the backup to be smaller

I propose a 1 Mbytes (per xml file) max size ^^

gusto

Off Topic
There is also an offline version of pfsense 2.8.0 (2.8.1).
I have seen videos on the internet where offline version 2.8.0 is used

patient0

@gusto said in Large backup and related questions:

There is also an offline version of pfsense 2.8.0 (2.8.1).
I have seen videos on the internet where offline version 2.8.0 is used

He's using what seems to be an 2.8.0-DEVELOPMENT ISO that maybe was around in mid 2024, and it does install .tar files.

It's not the current installer available.

gusto

@patient0
When I install pfSense, I don't have internet access at that moment. If the PPPoE setting was working, then the internet would probably work during the installation and pfSense would download and the installation would continue similarly to e.g. with ver. pfSense 2.7.2.
I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if there's a problem with the installer (PPPoE).
I noticed that a lot of people are complaining about this.

patient0

@gusto said in Large backup and related questions:

I noticed that a lot of people are complaining about this.

Sure, if it works for you that's good. Not sure if upgrade from 2.7.2 is about the same amount of work.

gusto

@patient0
I also saw in one video that I should go to advanced options and enable CE repositories there.
Maybe that was also the problem why my installation failed.

Gertjan

@gusto said in Large backup and related questions:

I should go to advanced options and enable CE repositories there.

Imho, no need to have access to the CE repositories if you have pfSense Plus selected
/installed.

As the help text mentions :

If you've selected CE as your pfSense, this option would be active by default.

That said, I never had the occasion to use the installer.

stephenw10

Where is it actually failing in the installer? Are you using the 1.0-RC version as shown above?

gusto

@stephenw10
I am not using installer 1.0-RC, but 1.1.1 (picture is from the internet).
This is my installation process

Please note that this is not my video. I found it on the internet, but I get to where I can't reach the netgate servers.
MAC addresses, name and password are not real.

SteveITS

said in Large backup and related questions:

zpool get all pfSense | grep trim should show auto trim is on for ZFS.

I can’t quickly check UFS

To follow up on my comment, I did look at this a bit. From what I can tell it is possible in UFS but TRIM is not enabled by default. https://gist.github.com/mdouchement/853fbd4185743689f58c had some old instructions for enabling it, but rather than boot into a special mode to enable TRIM, I just booted the Installer, had it use the exiting config file, and reinstalled with ZFS in like 4 minutes.

enable CE repositories

CE is the default unless the Installer detects you already have a Plus license for this VM.

gusto

This is my installation process
Am I doing something wrong?
My ISP has no special requirements and PPPoE only requires a username and password. I used the username and password 100% correctly.
Why do I always get a message that the netgate server is unavailable?

SteveITS

@gusto I don't think I'd make my password public...

Are you sure this is your WAN MAC address?

gusto

@SteveITS

Here I wrote that there are no real MAC addresses, PPPoE name and password on the pictures.