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    Introducing Netgate Nexus: Multi-Instance Management at Your Fingertips.

    Does pfSense frequently change core features with its releases?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General pfSense Questions
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    • W Offline
      Wallofbutter
      last edited by

      Hi,

      I'm looking into pfSense as a person who doesn't have much free time on my hands. I'm looking for a "set and forget" type of setup where I would be able to install security updates that don't change core features of the firewall that much once everything is initially setup.

      I like that there are a lot of updates in OPNsense but my recent annoyance and gripe with it is when they started changing too many core features of the firewall that resulted in me needing to redo some aspects of my setup for which I don't have time and can't keep up with all the changes due to time constraints.

      Such example is the recent introduction of the new firewall rules system in OPNsense, where you now need to migrate all the firewall rules manually from the old to new feature. Once I set something in place, I like it to stay the same.

      Simply saying, there are just too many core changes happening in OPNsense that I don't have time to maintain due to my limited free time that I have.

      The "set and forget" to me means that once you setup everything in place, there is a minimal maintenance besides applying updates that fix issues and security vulnerabilities.

      So, my question is, does pfSense do such changes frequently or do the features stay the same across updates \ releases with maybe addition of new ones being added? My other question is, does pfSense support snapshots feature?

      Thanks

      SteveITSS AndyRHA R GertjanG B 5 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • SteveITSS Offline
        SteveITS Galactic Empire @Wallofbutter
        last edited by

        @Wallofbutter I don’t recall ever having to manually reconfigure things like that. Configuration files are usable in future versions.

        Plus includes ZFS boot environments in the GUI. I believe they’re accessible via command line in CE.

        To upgrade, select your branch in System/Update/Update Settings. When upgrading, allow 10-15 minutes to reboot, or more depending on packages, CPU, and/or disk speed.
        Only install packages for your version of pfSense.
        Upvote 👍 helpful posts!

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • AndyRHA Offline
          AndyRH @Wallofbutter
          last edited by

          @Wallofbutter pfSense is notorious for being slow to add features. Netgate does improve things, but it is sometimes slower than most would like.

          They are also known for needing few security patches.

          For upgrades I might restart my pfSense+ firewall 2 or 3 times a year. pfSense CE is a bit slower on updates, but still solid. Like you I want stable and something that does not require my time.

          Give your favorite AI this prompt:
          Compare security vulnerabilities between pfSense and OPNsense for the last 2 years.

          o|||||||o
          8200

          W 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • W Offline
            Wallofbutter @AndyRH
            last edited by

            @AndyRH I know about vulnerabilities patches from Lawrence Systems forum post that because NetGate contributes code to FreeBSD, you get security patches faster in pfSense as a result of that.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • stephenw10S Offline
              stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
              last edited by

              Generally you can import any ancient config into current pfSense and it should work fine. You hardly ever need to change anything between updates in a normal install.

              If you have a bunch of custom stuff configured that may require some intervention.

              Sometimes we are forced to make a change at upgrade that effects some users such as when OpenVPN removes support for older encryption protocols which are no longer considered secure. In that instance we automatically selected a secure option at upgrade for users using that and alerted them in them gui. Or when a package may no longer be supported upstream and has to be withdrawn. In all cases we try to handle it in the config updater so affected systems still boot with rational options.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • R Offline
                rpsmith @Wallofbutter
                last edited by

                @Wallofbutter ~ "ISC DHCP has reached end-of-life and will be removed from a future version of pfSense. Kea DHCP is the newer, modern DHCP distribution from ISC that includes the most-requested features."

                In my opinion, the Kea service is a total mess! I tried it several times in the past only to have it stop renewing leases and I quickly switched back to ISC. It also removes GUI config for some options.

                T W 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • T Offline
                  tgl @rpsmith
                  last edited by

                  @rpsmith Yeah, I'm still on ISC DHCP and am unlikely to switch to Kea anytime soon. I tried it when I first set up pfSense, a couple years ago now, and it was a disaster. I suppose they've been working on fixing the bugs, but I see enough complaints on this forum that I'm not in any hurry to try it again. ISC does everything I need.

                  Fortunately, I don't think Netgate is going to go through with that removal plan anytime soon.

                  Other than this maybe-it-will-be-a-problem-sometime-in-the-future issue, I've been really pleased with how little maintenance effort my pfSense router has required.

                  R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • R Offline
                    rpsmith @tgl
                    last edited by

                    @tgl ~ I hope your correct. ISC does everything I need and I've never had a single problem with it.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • stephenw10S Offline
                      stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                      last edited by

                      ISC is still available so you can continue using it. However that's one of the cases where it's upstream development is discontinued. At some point some security issue may be discovered that forces us to remove it. At that time the upgrade code will move any existing configs to Kea. However there will be custom setups that do not transition cleanly and they will likely require invention. The vast majority of users probably won't even notice.
                      But even that is not exactly a 'frequent' change. We introduced Kea as an option quite some time ago and retain ISC available.

                      R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • GertjanG Offline
                        Gertjan @Wallofbutter
                        last edited by

                        @Wallofbutter

                        Added to what has been said above, the authors of ISC DHCP told us : "ISC DHCOP has now and EOL", but they didn't left us out there in the dark. They decided to write it all over again from the ground up, as they have acquired some experience with creating a DHCP server ^^
                        So, it's more a special case of a "new version".

                        No "help me" PM's please. Use the forum, the community will thank you.

                        T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • R Offline
                          rpsmith @stephenw10
                          last edited by

                          @stephenw10 ~ My DHCP config is about as simple as you can get and on the three recent occasions I tried to switch my firewall and a friend's firewall to Kea, It stopped renewing leases. I also don't like that they removed some of the config options from the GUI. Just my two cents!

                          stephenw10S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • T Offline
                            tgl @Gertjan
                            last edited by

                            @Gertjan Yeah, given that the Kea authors are the same people who did ISC DHCP, it's most odd that they're seemingly struggling to get it right. I'm tempted to wonder if the issues being seen here are not so much Kea itself as something wrong with its integration into pfSense. Just blue-sky speculation though.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • stephenw10S Offline
                              stephenw10 Netgate Administrator @rpsmith
                              last edited by

                              @rpsmith said in Does pfSense frequently change core features with its releases?:

                              on the three recent occasions I tried to switch my firewall and a friend's firewall to Kea, It stopped renewing leases.

                              Hmm, interesting. I've not seen any issues with it here recently other than on the 3100 where the 32bit arm port does have issues.

                              chpalmerC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • chpalmerC Offline
                                chpalmer @stephenw10
                                last edited by

                                @stephenw10 said in Does pfSense frequently change core features with its releases?:

                                @rpsmith said in Does pfSense frequently change core features with its releases?:

                                on the three recent occasions I tried to switch my firewall and a friend's firewall to Kea, It stopped renewing leases.

                                Hmm, interesting. I've not seen any issues with it here recently other than on the 3100 where the 32bit arm port does have issues.

                                At my shop here when I first tried Kea I had to go back to ISC but would occasionally try back to Kea. Over time I have not had to switch back to ISC.. I cannot tell you when the last time I switched around unfortunately..

                                Lab machine is on Kea but never gets anything on the LAN ports that require DHCP..

                                Triggering snowflakes one by one..
                                Primary- Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU G4400 @ 3.30GHz on an M470 WG box. pfSense CE 2.8.1
                                Lab Unit- Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4590T CPU @ 2.00GHz on an M400 WG box. pfSense+

                                R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • R Offline
                                  rpsmith @chpalmer
                                  last edited by

                                  @chpalmer ~ I don't think it even qualifies as a beta version. Why it's included in a release is beyond me!

                                  GertjanG 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • stephenw10S Offline
                                    stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                                    last edited by

                                    Have you opened a bug with any details?

                                    R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • R Offline
                                      rpsmith @stephenw10
                                      last edited by

                                      @stephenw10 ~ My bad. I have not. My last attempt to switch was about a month ago. I'll try again on the current 2.9.0 and open a bug report if I still have issues. I asked Gemini about the problem today and it mentioned known problems with using host names in custom options and host registration for dynamic DHCP clients so I need to look at those two areas before switching over next time.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • B Offline
                                        bbrendon @Wallofbutter
                                        last edited by

                                        @Wallofbutter If you really want to go the distance don't use packages. You should be able to get a few years easy if not using packages.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • W Offline
                                          Wallofbutter @rpsmith
                                          last edited by

                                          @rpsmith Yes, I seen the DHCP feature removal and replacement done in OPNsense also, they just change too many core features too frequently like with the new firewall rules that at the end it becomes a headache to manage for people with limited time.

                                          patient0P 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • patient0P Online
                                            patient0 @Wallofbutter
                                            last edited by

                                            @Wallofbutter but that is the first change in that area for a long time and it won't change again for a long time.

                                            You'll have to adjust to a new webUI (Nexus) in pfSense soon too. And if CoreDNS is coming to CE (which I assume it does) you'll have to adapt to that.

                                            R W 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
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