ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases
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@provels said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
- The Maxmind key is free, so I don't get what the problem is. Use fake info and a throwaway email address.
Aside from the fact that using fake info violates their TOS, I think the concern the OP brings up is- what is to prevent bad actors from removing themselves from the list due to 'privacy reasons' and thereby rendering the list basically useless?
My understanding is that the alternative lists he mentioned will not be removing addresses due to user requests. -
I think the whole thing stinks of company taking a privacy law and trying to monetize it to be honest.
I could see a concern when the IP pointed to your specific address or something. But the vast majority of IPs are just IPs handed to a user from their ISP.. That the geoip for the IP says its from country X, or state Y or even city Z... is some violation of your privacy is just freaking nuts..
What happens when isp having say range 1.2.3/24 located in US hands user A 1.2.3.100, and user B 1.2.3.101
And user B says hey - don't list my .101 address.. But user A doesn't care and maybe even wants his IP listed..
How do you remove .101 and not all of 1.2.3/24 for starters? Are you going to have specific entries for every single IP? even if you remove .101, pretty clear that 1.2.3/24 is used in the US.. Do you have to remove the whole freaking 1/8??
And what happens when the next day user B gets .100, or .102?
The whole thing is just not viable!!
Seems more like they just want an excuse to get info from the people that are using their so called "free" list..
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This is becoming an interesting conversation, I didnt expect that!
@dotdash said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
Aside from the fact that using fake info violates their TOS
Exactly my point. I am tired of entering my personal info all over the web just to get "free stuff". Once you enter your info, good luck removing it from their services. Most of them dont even allow deleting or closing an account and they retain your data pretty much forever just to be the victim of the next data breach, and sell it to the highest bidder. Over the years I have had to enter personal info (email, phone number, etc) just to be able to register to forums, services, etc, only to later find out that ther are NO possibility of deleting your account or information. Basically a spider web. Once caught, its too late. They are asking for real info (not throwaway email or etc) proving my point.
Maxmind is no different IMO. Countless "free" services I have seen moving from totally free (here's the data, grab it as you wish) to "oh now you have to create an account and enter your personal info", to "sorry this is now commercial and you will have to pay to continue using it". I may be wrong, but I am 99% sure Maxmind is headed this way and soon enough, pfblocker's devs will have to recode it to accept other sources or provide the posibility to disable it entirely. I believe this should have been like that since the beginning.
@dotdash said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
I think the concern the OP brings up is- what is to prevent bad actors from removing themselves from the list due to 'privacy reasons' and thereby rendering the list basically useless?
This is another very good point, and I didnt think about that until now!
@johnpoz said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
I think the whole thing stinks of company taking a privacy law and trying to monetize it to be honest.
Agreed 10,000%
@johnpoz said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
Seems more like they just want an excuse to get info from the people that are using their so called "free" list..
They're all doing this now. Hell even Imgur requires an account now with a freaking phone number!!! What's next?
For now I'm just gonna "disable" the cron job until this situation ghets cleaned up (possibility or entirely disabling GeoIP from pfblocker, or another GeoIP supplier is available and reliable (like OP of this thread suggested)).
EDIT: A quick look at Maxmind's terms of services for their GeoLite2 service and Privacy Policy
FEES.
The Services are made available to you free of charge. MaxMind reserves the right to stop offering the Services free of charge at any time, and charge for future updates to the Services.Vendors and Other Parties
We may share your information with vendors and other parties for purposes of providing you with tailored advertisements, measuring and improving our Service and advertising effectiveness, and enabling other enhancements. Vendors may act as our service providers, or in certain contexts, independently decide how to process your information. -
@dotdash said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
@provels said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
- The Maxmind key is free, so I don't get what the problem is. Use fake info and a throwaway email address.
@BBcan177 has already stated that Maxmind will not accept throwaway email addresses as a valid email address. He also stated that one probably cannot get a license if they are going through a VPN. I myself found out that I could not get a license when my ipv6 he.net account was enabled because it was hiding my real IP address. I had to disable my ipv6 account with he.net to signup for a license and then re-enable it after they issued me a license. It now works fine with ipv6 he.net enabled with the license they issued.
Aside from the fact that using fake info violates their TOS, I think the concern the OP brings up is- what is to prevent bad actors from removing themselves from the list due to 'privacy reasons' and thereby rendering the list basically useless?
My understanding is that the alternative lists he mentioned will not be removing addresses due to user requests.I think folks just need to get over it and get the FREE license that they are offering. Who is to say that these other companies that are saying they won't comply with the California law, don't next week, next month, etc. don't start requiring users get a license to use their database. All it takes is some rich, happy go lucky, lawyer sends them a cease and desist letter stating that they have to comply with this new law or shut down.
Then look at the maintainers of these software packages having to make changes for each of the databases. If I remember, @bmeeks85, stated that Suricata will also require users to get license if they use the geoip feature in that software package. It sounded like he was going to leave it up to the users to mod the software themselves instead of him releasing a new package with this added feature for the license.
The bottom line is as I see it, just get the license if you want to use the software package or don't use the software package. The world is changing by the hour and not all for the better, life is too short to let something like this worry you.
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A quick look at Maxmind's terms of services for their GeoLite2 service and Privacy Policy
FEES.
The Services are made available to you free of charge. MaxMind reserves the right to stop offering the Services free of charge at any time, and charge for future updates to the Services.Vendors and Other Parties
We may share your information with vendors and other parties for purposes of providing you with tailored advertisements, measuring and improving our Service and advertising effectiveness, and enabling other enhancements. Vendors may act as our service providers, or in certain contexts, independently decide how to process your information.(Sorry for entering this info at two places, the forum is acting again with "Error Post content was flagged as spam by Akismet.com") Not sure why this happens but its a MAJOR PITA
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@pftdm007 said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
A quick look at Maxmind's terms of services for their GeoLite2 service and Privacy Policy
FEES.
The Services are made available to you free of charge. MaxMind reserves the right to stop offering the Services free of charge at any time, and charge for future updates to the Services.Vendors and Other Parties
We may share your information with vendors and other parties for purposes of providing you with tailored advertisements, measuring and improving our Service and advertising effectiveness, and enabling other enhancements. Vendors may act as our service providers, or in certain contexts, independently decide how to process your information.This is pretty much standard TOS in all software. Nothing new here.
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The data is only Country & ASN anyhow isn't it?
It's not their data they have just collected it from elsewhere.
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@NogBadTheBad said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
The data is only Country & ASN anyhow isn't it?
It's not their data they have just collected it from elsewhere.
... and as @johnpoz has stated in numerous messages, this database is not that accurate any way. It contains numerous mistakes and will only get worse as the IPv4 address shortage continues.
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@jdeloach said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
FREE
That's the keyword. Create a Gmail address, get the key, never check the email account again. It's not like pfB is phoning home...
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This whole thing is nonsense... And while I am all for privacy - you can not take it to this level and not expect nonsense..
The part where they say they will "remove" it from their database is BS plain and simple... And their use of the IP in saying where in the world it is from from a geographic high level has zero to do with personal privacy...
You can not remove subset of a list, without removing the whole list when used in such a way...
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@provels said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
That's the keyword. Create a Gmail address, get the key, never check the email account again. It's not like pfB is phoning home...
Well, I did just that a couple of days ago and haven't heard anything back. Also note that they state I must use an e-mail address that includes my domain name. I don't have a domain name nor do I wish to run an e-mail service off it (if I had one) just to sign up for a free account so I can use unrelated features of pfBlocker without being nagged constantly about needing a license key.
There really needs to be a way to turn off this constant nag alert if we choose not to use MaxMind's service or at least an alternative database that we can use.
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@Klingon00 FWIW, I used a Hotmail.com (a domain) address, got a confirmation email, and had my key in a few minutes. Did you happen to try what I suggested earlier, to whit: "Maybe you can make up a dummy key? It's a 16 character mixed case alphanumeric. And disable the cron task so it doesn't throw authentication errors."
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FYI I just entered a dummy string in the license key field and the notification stopped. Problem solved as far as I am concerned!
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@jdeloach said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
The bottom line is as I see it, just get the license if you want to use the software package or don't use the software package. The world is changing by the hour and not all for the better, life is too short to let something like this worry you.
World are step forward to new "whole transparence". We all need to understanding that current governments in EU, companies in USA, anyone has no idea how we may manage and live in this "new whole transparence". And need to study. And on this way we all able to doing mistakes.
Especially, if a lot of authorities/dictators countries exists, transnational corporation exist, local ethnic conflict exist. IT-related crimes is dramatically less amount to compare to attacks from one country to another. -
If you leave a dummy MaxMind key, it will attempt to download the MaxMind databases on a monthly basis and error out.
When there are no GeoIP aliases or IPv4/6 "GeoIP" aliases enabled. Then you should be able to leave the MaxMind key blank and not get any dashboard notifications about it. The cron task will still be there, and it will run once per month and terminate early as there is no MaxMind key.
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Thank you, I had gone through and de-selected all locations but was still getting mercilessly nagged until I went through and changed each category's list action to "Disabled". I haven't seen a nag message for several hours now.
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@jdeloach said in ip2location as alternative for MaxMind databases:
Then look at the maintainers of these software packages having to make changes for each of the databases. If I remember, @bmeeks85, stated that Suricata will also require users to get license if they use the geoip feature in that software package. It sounded like he was going to leave it up to the users to mod the software themselves instead of him releasing a new package with this added feature for the license.
The next Suricata GUI package update (pull request posted now for review and merging) will allow the user to enter a MaxMind DB key in order to continue using the GeoIP blocking features of Suricata. The new "default state" for the GeoIP DB download will move from "enabled" to "disabled". You will need to manually enter your MaxMind license key on the GLOBAL SETTINGS tab and click the Enable checkbox in order to use the GeoIP feature in Suricata. When enabled, the package will create a crontab task that checks once per week, on Sundays at 0600, for updated GeoIP databases.
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I would like to see the support for IP2Location database in pfSense.
How can we make it works?
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Anyway, after all this “MaxMind registration wave” goes out, and all products with geolocation determining involved, integrate a MaxMind Key, slowly, integrations with other services coming.
But if we (as admins and developers) really need this integration with other DB - we may asking the developers.
No asking - no action.
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MaxMind update User Agreement
Dear GeoIP2/GeoLite2 User,
The California Consumer Privacy Act (“CCPA”) took effect on January 1, 2020. Under the CCPA, California residents have the right to opt out of the sale of their personal information as defined by the CCPA. Where a business receives a request from a California resident to opt out of the sale of their personal information, the business must notify all third parties to whom it has sold the personal information of the California resident within the prior 90 days that the California resident has exercised their right to opt-out of the sale of their personal information and instruct the third party not to further sell the personal information.
In order to address this requirement, MaxMind has created a “Do Not Sell” page containing the IP addresses of any California residents who have exercised their right to opt-out of the sale of their personal information with MaxMind. The “Do Not Sell” page is available from your MaxMind account portal at https://www.maxmind.com/en/accounts/current/do-not-sell-requests. Once you log into your account you can navigate to this page by clicking on the Do Not Sell My Personal Information Requests link from the left-hand navigation menu. We are also working on a notification method via API, more details to come to soon.
The “Do Not Sell” page constitutes our instruction to you that, to the extent any transfer of personal information by MaxMind to you of a California resident listed on the “Do Not Sell” page constitutes a sale, you are not to further sell such personal information. Without limiting your obligations under the CCPA, MaxMind requires that, at a minimum, the IP addresses and networks listed on the “Do Not Sell” page must not be used in your products or services for marketing or advertising purposes. As a GeoIP2/GeoLite2 User, it is your obligation to check the “Do Not Sell” page on at least a weekly basis, and ensure your compliance with the CCPA. To help make this process easier, MaxMind is working on a mechanism by which you can programmatically receive updates to the page.
By continuing to use the GeoIP2/GeoLite2 services, you agree to comply with our instructions and not use any information on the “Do Not Sell” page except as strictly necessary to effectuate the California residents’ requests.
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at legal@maxmind.com.
Regards,
MaxMind Team
