DIY router help needed!
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I would like to ask for help picking parts for a custom-build router using pfSense. As I definitely don't want to fool with the embedded version of pfSense, nor replace SSD every year, this build will require a CD/DVD drive, and a regular HDD (I'm thinking the Western Digital Black 500GB 2.5" HDD). As my pfSense install-CD is 64-bit version, I require at least 4GB RAM (but more is better). I already have an Intel EXPI9402PT NIC, and would like to use it, if possible. This build absolutely must be able to handle gigabit speed, and combined parts must not cost over $300. Recommendations?
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No idea why you think you need an optical drive. USB installs are pretty standard these days, and very easy. I haven't used an optical drive for a new pfSense install in years.
Same sentiment on HDD vs SSD. Your call, but I'd go SSD over HDD any day. Any early SSD teething issues are well behind us. 500GB is way too much. 30GB is too much, really, but you won't find much fixed storage less than that.
You don't need 4GB of RAM but it won't hurt. Just because you're running a 64 bit OS doesn't increase the RAM requirements. It just increases the amount of RAM you can use.
For 1Gbps throughput, your EXPI9402PT should suffice. The rest of your requirements will depend on the packages you want to use. An embedded Celeron at 2+GHz should handle 1Gbps fine without VPN, for example.
If you're set on a desktop platform, I'd say go with a Skylake motherboard, use your EXPI9402PT in the x16 slot, and 4GB of RAM and a G4400 or so. Storage is up to you, but I wouldn't be scared of SSD.
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From what I've read here and other forums, pfSense chews up SSDs in about a year, unless one uses the 'embedded' version. I definitely do not want to fool with the embedded version, nor regularly replacing an SSD, so the best I could come up with is to use a regular HDD. I've not been able to find any Intel HDD at the 30GB size you recommend…how bad is using the 500GB size for pfSense? Are you referring to USB version external optical drive, or something else? Can I get this build down below mid-tower size, and as quiet a possible?
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You're probably not going to find a SATA SSD at that size. mSATA or M.2 depending on the slots on the hardware.
Don't know where you get that pfSense chews through SSDs. Maybe if you get kind of stupid with squid or something. But that would be squid, not pfSense.
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I've ran pfsense from a 4GB USB flash drive for years without issue…
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zoltac ci323 or ci325. 8-16gb ram, and a 128gb ssd, and a laptop cooler for below the unit
problems solved for under 300$
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From what I've read here and other forums, pfSense chews up SSDs in about a year, unless one uses the 'embedded' version. I definitely do not want to fool with the embedded version, nor regularly replacing an SSD, so the best I could come up with is to use a regular HDD. I've not been able to find any Intel HDD at the 30GB size you recommend…how bad is using the 500GB size for pfSense? Are you referring to USB version external optical drive, or something else? Can I get this build down below mid-tower size, and as quiet a possible?
I'd disregard any further "tips" from whoever told you that. Even consumer cheap SSD's will typically do ~300TB+ of writes before dying (reads are irrelevant). For pfsense to kill one in a year it'd have to do ~800GB of writes a day. Not to mention that amount of writing will kill a consumer spinning disk much sooner. Been running pfsense on an SSD for two years and it's written 30GB total according to SMART data, which is mostly logs. So yes, pfsense's typical write behavior will kill an SSD's write endurance eventually, but it'll take ~2,000 years
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You're probably not going to find a SATA SSD at that size. mSATA or M.2 depending on the slots on the hardware.
Don't know where you get that pfSense chews through SSDs. Maybe if you get kind of stupid with squid or something. But that would be squid, not pfSense.
I think I have the pages saying that (from this forum) printed out somewhere…I'll try to find them.
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You're probably not going to find a SATA SSD at that size. mSATA or M.2 depending on the slots on the hardware.
Don't know where you get that pfSense chews through SSDs. Maybe if you get kind of stupid with squid or something. But that would be squid, not pfSense.
Okay, so I found one of my several printouts from this forum mentioning the SSD/pfSense problem:
https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=34381.60
I think there were a couple similar topics here, but those printouts are MIA for now, and looks like I didn't print out any from the other forums at all. Vaguely recall one from either Linuxquestions or DSLreports.
Anyway, the storage choices for this build is either regular HDD…or SSD, if I really don't have to mess with Nanobsd, or replace the SSD regularly. I got an install-CD from OSDisc.com (pfSense 2.2.6, 64bit vers.) and will be using it, so I believe this requires the build to have either a internal CD/DVD drive or external sort. I forgot to mention in the original post that this build will be a wired-only router. I don't trust wi-fi. Guess I should also mention that this must function as both router and hardware-firewall (using NAT & SPI). So far as I can tell, this requires no additional 'packages' not already in pfSense install CD…let me know if that is wrong.
Addenda: After a lot of time wasting I'm unable to tell for sure whether on not the problem with SSDs have been solved. As I got no desire to replace an SSD every year or two, nor fool with 'nanobsd' or 'embedded' version, I've decided to err on the side of caution, and limit this build to regular ole HDD....probably Intel G59973-300-06. As for it being too large, I have found no convincing evidence that pfSense can handle only tiny drives. Mostly the argument seems to be that its a waste of space, but I don't have a problem with that.
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that is an ancient pfsense distro
just download an install ISO from pfsense https://www.pfsense.org/download/ (NOT the nanobsd or memstick versions, just the plain release)
use win32diskimager https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/
to flash it to a thumb drive, and boot the box off the thumb drive to install
zero need for a cd drive, can't believe people still install things that way to be honest
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"From what I've read here and other forums, pfSense chews up SSDs in about a year,"
Nonsense, I don't care where you read it..
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that is an ancient pfsense distro
just download an install ISO from pfsense https://www.pfsense.org/download/ (NOT the nanobsd or memstick versions, just the plain release)
use win32diskimager https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/
to flash it to a thumb drive, and boot the box off the thumb drive to install
zero need for a cd drive, can't believe people still install things that way to be honest
blame youtube.
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"From what I've read here and other forums, pfSense chews up SSDs in about a year,"
Nonsense, I don't care where you read it..
Straight from the horses mouth:
https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=34381.0
There are similar mentions on other forums, but can't find the printouts just now.
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What horse? What mouth? That thread spans 5 years.
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Are you saying that thread is no longer valid, and that 'nanobsd' or 'embedded' versions of pfSense are no longer required to avoid replacing SSDs every few years? Maybe my mastery of the 'search' button here is faulty, but I've been able to find no mention that the problem was solved…got any links?
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I've ran pfsense from a 4GB USB flash drive for years without issue…
I'm glad you've managed to find a flash drive that lasts, but my experience has been the opposite. Bought three of them over the last year. One fell off the desk, and broke into pieces. It lasted 5 months. Second one I brushed against while it was in the USB port, and it broke. Lasted 4 months. Last one just stopped working. It lasted 6 months. About the same life as a floppy disc. Too fragile. Too unreliable. I'll stick with a CD or DVD. Only problem I ever had with them is it getting scratched up…cotton gloves solved that.
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Everything Netgate is currently shipping is using either eMMC on the mainboard, SSD on M.2 or mSATA, or SSD. No nano. No memdisk tricks. Circular logging as always. Full install.
Like I said. Unless you get stupid with squid or something your SSD will be fine.
That thread, being so old, makes it difficult to quickly decipher what storage technology is being referred to where, which is why I asked you to point out the specific posts you are referring to instead of a 5-year-long thread. What was true about CF cards is not necessarily true about a modern 30GB mSATA SSD from Intel.
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Sooner or later everything breaks. I can't prove that, as not everything has broken yet, but if you wait long enough, everything will. Even the Sun will burn out. With that in mind, I found a 120gb Patriot SSD for $35 new at Fry's last month, for PfSense, enabled TRIM and am confident that most likely it will outlast the old-school HD it has replaced. I left the old drive in my router and I do keep it up to date, and can boot from it in case the SSD fails. If they both fail at the same time, I have a backup file I can apply to a new install.
Memory sticks are another matter. I don't trust those. Even though I do boot NAS4Free from a stick, I keep several copies of the config about as I expect to have a failure. And I keep extra sticks with NAS4Free installed and configured, ready to use, so I can get it back up with a reboot. Nothing of value is put on them unless the data is also stored on less volatile media or can be replaced.
I read some of that old thread about SSDs, maybe they were less reliable in the past, or stories people heard got told as gospel. My oldest SSD is 4 years old and has been used for several hours a day as the boot drive of my gamer (Muskin MSATA in Asus Maximus V Extreme) and I am still waiting for a bad sector or failure…
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Are you saying that thread is no longer valid, and that 'nanobsd' or 'embedded' versions of pfSense are no longer required to avoid replacing SSDs every few years?
are you just purposefully ignoring our posts or what? it's not an issue, it never has been. see figures on previous page
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Everything Netgate is currently shipping is using either eMMC on the mainboard, SSD on M.2 or mSATA, or SSD. No nano. No memdisk tricks. Circular logging as always. Full install.
Like I said. Unless you get stupid with squid or something your SSD will be fine.
That thread, being so old, makes it difficult to quickly decipher what storage technology is being referred to where, which is why I asked you to point out the specific posts you are referring to instead of a 5-year-long thread. What was true about CF cards is not necessarily true about a modern 30GB mSATA SSD from Intel.
Okay, I will assume that the SSDs are now okay to use, and will shift my efforts from researching HDDs to SSDs. I'll need about a week to look into this, so I'd like to shift focus here to motherboards. I'm liking these:
Asrock J1900D2Y
Asrock Q1900M
Both have mostly good reviews, and I think are compatible and fast enough for pfSense to reach my required gigabit throughput. The Q1900M should accommodate my EXPI9402PT NIC card, but not sure if the x1 PCIe slot is good enough for gigabit speed…anyone know? The J1900D2Y I think has good enough onboard Ethernet to do gigabit throughput.Anyway, I'm looking for opinions on these boards. If anyone wants to suggest other ones, do keep in mind I require a board to have:
1. CPU included (minimum 2GHz and four-core).
2. Have either slot for my EXPI9402PT or onboard Intel dual-port able to do gigabit speed.
3. Able to handle at least 4 GB RAM.
4. Minimum three USB ports and one VGA port.
5. Onboard graphics.
