This is why I wont be reporting any more bugs.
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No senior members have actually suggested anything, but actually instead concentrated on telling me to "not" do stuff.
Perhaps because everyone is either fed up by your moaning, or just cannot be bothered to follow your 3 different threads about the same, with chaotic pieces of info posted here or there or elsewhere.
Finally you label my final comment here https://redmine.pfsense.org/issues/7104#note-9 as nonsense without explaining why you believe it to be nonsense.
Actually no, I originally labeled is a "load of bollocks". And posted a screenshot reasoning why.
Have better things to do with my time, outta here.
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So you are hanging onto the fact it works for you, and that reason alone that everything I said is nonsense/bollocks.
Is that what you really trying to say and consider adequate diagnostics?
I do agree this whole thing has been a waste of time, I have spent far too much time on this subject, especially as I already have a working solution in place.
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"Be gracious in giving (helping others) rather than condescending, insulting, belittling, etc."
Not to point out the obvious here NOYB, but all the words of be nice seems a bit odd coming from someone with -109 Karma points.. When you only have 118 on the + side to counter those.. Clearly you pissed of some people with your honey vs vinger posts ;) hehehe
Just saying ;) hehehe
So you want to shoot the messenger eh. ;)
Karma point context matters. So if you want to use that then provide the context of them as well.
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I am not aware of any of these issues, on what dok might or might not have said on some comments on redmine. I don't really want to get involved with that. The funny part I found in this thread was someone saying hey you catch more flies with honey, yet has a - karma that is almost higher than his +… Which doesn't see like practice what he is preaching is all..
But what I can tell you is have been reading dok's posts, and chatting off and on with him for years. He might seem a bit blunt or rough sometimes in his comments. And while it might see rude or atleast not very nice to those that do no know his style. That is not his intent to be sure..
What I can tell you is I can not recall a post of his that was off base from tech point of view. Be it his posts didn't put in enough please and thank you's I don't really give 2 shits about. This is a tech board, and about information. Sorry but if you get offended because someone calls BS on information posted - maybe you should only visit the board when its not your time of the month ;)
To be honest his blunt and upfront posts normally bring a smile to my face ;) Because its nice to see vs all the flowery fluff that fills many boards.. Keep in mind that its really hard to correctly interpret tone in a forum post.. I get the same reaction to some of my posts.. And I can assure you I am just here to help and exchange information that allows the user to do what they want to do. If they are going down the wrong path per my "opinion" that I might say nonsense or bs, etc. etc.
I don't really care for all the flowery nonsense, I don't care if you catch a billion more flies.. I don't really like flies - so if we have to spread about some vinegar about - who cares.. Keeps the flies away if you ask me ;)
If you think he assumed something is wrong, then call him on it posting why.. The facts are the facts. But to go crying that he was direct and to the point with his opinion and you found it not to your likely.. Oh well ;)
Does not matter if he called you a moron or an idiot or whatever. These are just words from some random guy on the internet.. Why would you get upset? What does it matter - comes down to the information that the discussion is about. If something doesn't work, then it doesn't work - show your steps in why you think the problem was xyz.. If the problem is not xyz and someone says oh that is BS.. Vs hey mister poster hope your having a nice day, but I do not believe the information you provided is correct..
Its easier and quicker and to me gets a more honest opinion across if you just say Bollocks! or BS that is not the problem.. If they jumped to conclusion that you think is false then show why.. They are going to feel stupid if you show you are correct and they are wrong now arn't they.. If was just too blokes chatting at the pub and one said that is BS, and then finds out its not you both laugh and have a beer.. You don't go home crying to mommy ;)
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On a somewhat productive note, closing all your duplicate threads (this one included) and starting a new fresh one, with focus on stating relevant info (incl. the shaper config), what you are trying to achieve, what have you done, what results you have expected and what does not work might even produce some result.
From the mess and OT noise posted so far and some chaotic descriptions, the only thing I got that you got some god knows what tool from the infamous grc.com site (proudly spreading FUD and misinformation since ~2000 or so) and did some random messing with DNS queries. Kinda hard to debug that.
P.S. On the karma note, perhaps someone fix my satanic +666 karma meanwhile? :P
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P.S. On the karma note, perhaps someone fix my satanic +666 karma meanwhile? :P
I think it's awesome, and compliments your avatar.
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P.S. On the karma note, perhaps someone fix my satanic +666 karma meanwhile? :P
Nope. I think it fits you. We should just make it static for you. ;)
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We should just make it static for you. ;)
Hmmm, sounds good. 8) :P
Thought you might like that. Maybe is why you pointed it out. So people would rebel and not bump it. Oh the head games to be played. ;)
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"668: The Neighbour of the Beast"
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https://web.archive.org/web/20060118024806/http://grcsucks.com/
669 your welcome!
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https://web.archive.org/web/20060118024806/http://grcsucks.com/
LOL. Yeah. Even worse was the SpinRite snakeoil. Should be just criminal. >:( >:( >:(
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I am not aware of any of these issues, on what dok might or might not have said on some comments on redmine. I don't really want to get involved with that. The funny part I found in this thread was someone saying hey you catch more flies with honey, yet has a - karma that is almost higher than his +… Which doesn't see like practice what he is preaching is all..
But what I can tell you is have been reading dok's posts, and chatting off and on with him for years. He might seem a bit blunt or rough sometimes in his comments. And while it might see rude or atleast not very nice to those that do no know his style. That is not his intent to be sure..
What I can tell you is I can not recall a post of his that was off base from tech point of view. Be it his posts didn't put in enough please and thank you's I don't really give 2 shits about. This is a tech board, and about information. Sorry but if you get offended because someone calls BS on information posted - maybe you should only visit the board when its not your time of the month ;)
To be honest his blunt and upfront posts normally bring a smile to my face ;) Because its nice to see vs all the flowery fluff that fills many boards.. Keep in mind that its really hard to correctly interpret tone in a forum post.. I get the same reaction to some of my posts.. And I can assure you I am just here to help and exchange information that allows the user to do what they want to do. If they are going down the wrong path per my "opinion" that I might say nonsense or bs, etc. etc.
I don't really care for all the flowery nonsense, I don't care if you catch a billion more flies.. I don't really like flies - so if we have to spread about some vinegar about - who cares.. Keeps the flies away if you ask me ;)
If you think he assumed something is wrong, then call him on it posting why.. The facts are the facts. But to go crying that he was direct and to the point with his opinion and you found it not to your likely.. Oh well ;)
Does not matter if he called you a moron or an idiot or whatever. These are just words from some random guy on the internet.. Why would you get upset? What does it matter - comes down to the information that the discussion is about. If something doesn't work, then it doesn't work - show your steps in why you think the problem was xyz.. If the problem is not xyz and someone says oh that is BS.. Vs hey mister poster hope your having a nice day, but I do not believe the information you provided is correct..
Its easier and quicker and to me gets a more honest opinion across if you just say Bollocks! or BS that is not the problem.. If they jumped to conclusion that you think is false then show why.. They are going to feel stupid if you show you are correct and they are wrong now arn't they.. If was just too blokes chatting at the pub and one said that is BS, and then finds out its not you both laugh and have a beer.. You don't go home crying to mommy ;)
General Questions / Re: How do you automate pFsense Changes?
« by cmb on July 01, 2015, 09:58:33 pm »
johnpoz: be nice, please.
https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=95850.msg534212#msg534212webGUI / Re: WebGui admin available from WAN
« by cmb on April 30, 2016, 01:21:54 pm »
Be nice, johnpoz.
https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=110784.msg618541#msg618541Be careful hurling those stones around. You might break your house.
This is why I don't put much value in the karma ratings. Because I don't see any means available for associating them with a post and person who is awarding them. i.e. context
You may have a better +/- karma % than I but I'll take my % over your being chastised by one of, if not the, top dog at least twice in less than a year for down right horrible treatment of others on the pfSense forums.
Especially since I know that many if not most of my - karma points were intentionally solicited and egg on, even directly invited by myself. So in light of that I'll say again, karma points context matters.
And oh by the way. One does not have to be all flower and giggles to not be rude, condescending, and a plethora of synonyms and interact with people respectfully. And being blunt does not equate to or necessitate being those things either. Also a persons MO/style is not justification/license to be the afore mentioned things. As was stated earlier by someone, "Please don't make excuses for rudeness."
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I suggest that you simply stop running the wizard. And if you DO run the wizard, don't check every damn checkbox. Check one for something that's easily understood - like DNS. And maybe HTTP so you get some TCP happening. See what the wizard did then take a config backup, remove the shaper and build it yourself. You are always just a 3 minute restore away from starting over again.
Make maybe three queues on WAN. Priority, HTTP, and Default. Don't even worry about download shaping on LAN.
Start with PRIQ not HFSC.
Start simple. Not with 40 floating rules.
When you can look at a floating match rule and be able to KNOW exactly what it is doing and you can DEMONSTRATE there is something that isn't behaving as designed and get perhaps some CONSENSUS here, THEN open a detailed bug report with the clear steps to REPRODUCE. You are obviously a beginner at this. Beginners should not be wasting the developers' valuable time filing what basically amount to frivolous bug reports that are essentially nothing but a support request to help teach them how to configure the traffic shaper (free of charge).
That is what the forum is for and is exactly what you were told over on redmine but you decided to get butt-hurt instead.
Moving to general discussion.
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pfSense is amazing software, but the attitude to bug reports I have made has been pretty shocking, there is "assumptions" been made that things are due to errors I must have made myself, and I have even been called a liar…
I agree, you were treated appallingly. And even if it was not a "real bug", there's this thing called diplomacy. There are a couple of posters in the forums who are prone to fly off the handle and treat people poorly.
If I treated customers or my testers like that I'd be in line at the unemployment office.
Diplomacy does not solve technical issues. Technical issues are mostly caused by ineptitude. Ineptitude can solved with knowledge. But you can only lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink. When the horse refuses to drink, being diplomatic is a waste of time. You either need to figure out how to force it or give up on the lost cause.
When my cat needs to take his pill, I may be nice the first few times, but after a bit, I'm going to force that pill down his throat. It's for his own good. I can't do that over the Internet, but I get the luxury of being emotionally un-invested with anonymous other people, making it easy to cut my losses.
That fact that they have no given up shows how much they care, even if a bit rouge around the edges.
P.S. I hate diplomatic people. I find them to be very "fake" and untrustworthy. Always twisting words and never being strait and to the point, interacting with your emotions instead of your reason.
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Derelict what made you conclude I am obviously a beginner?
A beginner first wouldnt even have noticed the problem, as they wouldnt know to look at the queue statistics.
Also one important diagnostic step in diagnosing if firewall rules behave as expected is to look at the counters for the individual rules, not only did I do this, but I demonstrated that I did it.
The only thing I agree with you is that yes it is best to test on one rule only, and for that I could run the wizard and select http and nothing else. The result would be the same tho. The result is not because there is multiple rules, and there certainly is not 40 rules there is no need to try and exaggerate things.
I wont be taking this further with pfSense, there is simply too much opposition to the mere thought of there been a bug, and for that reason this will never develop into what would be a proper solution, a FreeBSD developer is checking the PF source code however to check exactly what the code is supposed to be doing in regards to pass vs match rules.
With attitudes such as "Technical issues are mostly caused by ineptitude. " It is simply not worth my time.
Also even tho i have stated I am only using HSFQ it does not mean that is all I have tried, if I came on here with a post stating I had already tried several different configurations (including PRIQ) I would likely have been told I shouldnt have done that, in other words you guys are so obsessed with the idea that this has to be operator error you are now taking the approach to find a reason to come to that conclusion. You are not thinking with an open mind. I of course still have an open mind, its not 100% chance of it been a bug, "but" and its a big but, not one single person has come on here and said something like this.
We need to rule out that it is not you misconfiguring the software so please carry out the following steps and report back the results.
If something like that was posted I would of course have cooperated, followed the steps and reported back, but instead its just been a barrage of insults with the problem been "me".
If I took this approach with the people who pay my bills I likely would be looking for a job right now, I for sure simply could not brush of issues with "well it works for Mr White so it must be Mr Black's fault it doesnt work for him".
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It is clear that there is something toxic in the workflow for forum based assistance.
Pfsense has been brought to the mainstream due to coverage on youtube from several tech personalities.
Networking can be deceivingly easy to get going - but we all know how complex this stuff is.
I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. I'm just posting an observation that I've made.
The board is flooded with "beginner level" inquiries. Stuff that most consumers encounter when they buy an off the shelf consumer grade piece. This is not a put down. It is a classification.
Honestly, pfsense is what I would call enterprise level. Theres settings in there where you can totally screw it up whereas something that has been made idiot proof cannot be made to do so - or let's just say it's obvious if you've messed up on it.
That is necessary for all the different use cases people have at the enterprise level that a "gaming" router is not set up to do with 99.99% uptime.So we have a ton of people in here at different levels of understanding trying to get the attention of the pfsense community for no charge to get their setup working.
Could you imagine grade schoolers asking College Professors grade school level questions during a College course?
I think there needs to be some sort of hierarchy - the only problem is people don't necessarily know what level their issue is.
Call centers solved this issue by making people go through tiers of support so the easy stuff never gets the attention of the higher level techs who are busy with higher level things.
Anyway I'm ranting again.
No one is wrong - the structure made to help is.
Take care of each other out there! ;D
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It is clear that there is something toxic in the workflow for forum based assistance.
This thread ain't about forum based assistance. This thread origin was a guy who repeatedly filed nonsensical bugs and - when pointed to use the forum - got offended instead and accused people of trying to keep the bugs number down.
P.S. When in need of enterprise support, just purchase one. They'll deal with your PEBKAC happily. Don't abuse the issue tracker for that.
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as a reminder I am done with this thread so will not respond to any more comments, even favourable one's, I am still active in the new thread tho.
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With attitudes such as "Technical issues are mostly caused by ineptitude. " It is simply not worth my time.
Something wrong with that? It's true. There are two reasons to having a problem when there should not be a problem.
- You understand the problem and made a mistake somewhere and are just trying to catch your mistake
- You don't understand the problem aka inept
I find myself to be inept from time to time, but I l better myself in the process. Inept just means you have a lack of knowledge or skill. I actually find it strangely exciting, even though bitter-sweet. When someone shows me the error of my way, even if it smashes my ego into the ground, I thank them and become a less inept person.
If you fear what you don't know because it hurts your ego, you're not going to get very far. You sir, have a bad attitude towards learning. Many people pointed out that your issue is only caused by yourself. You made a wrong assumption and the "bug" with PFSense is a feature, and for good reason. Instead of even acknowledging that reason, you went on a crusade talking about how you're correct, PFSense is wrong, and PFSense needs to completely change the fundamental concept of stateful firewalling.
