2 ISP to 2 WANs and make 2 LANs

Modesty

Hi

i have set up pfsens to load balance 2 WANs (from 2 ISPs)
Now i would like to share 1 ekstra lan to my rental aparment. In this way i make one lan for my house and one for the apartment.

My pfsense box is connected to a switch and apartment is wired to this switch.

I was thinking to make one extra DHCP service for this but i cant find a way. Do i need to make a VLAN?

M

jahonix

If you need to use VLANs depends on your setup, pfSense hardware, switch and need to separate apartment traffic from your LAN.
Is your switch VLAN capable or do you have a spare interface in your pfSense (or could you just throw in an additional NIC)?

Modesty

Hi

I have a apu with 3 nics, plan to have 2 wan in one lan out.

Was hoping pfsense could handle house an apartment by itself so switch could stay out of the equation.

Faile safe is nice but bundling bandwidth and 2 separeye lans is my imediate needs, but i dont figure out how to set it up.

Thanks

jahonix

With a 3-port APU you're missing at least one physical interface.
Without a managed switch you will not be able to use VLANs and configure another subnet for your apartment. No way of doing so.

@Modesty:

Faile safe is nice but bundling bandwidth and 2 separeye lans is my imediate needs

Failsafe?
You are aware that two WANs 'bundled' will NOT get you the sum of both connection speeds, aren't you?
2x 1Mbps will always be 2x 1Mbps and not 1x 2Mbps. Has nothing to do with pfSense, that's a basic TCP/IP limitation.

supermon

Hello There, I'm also new to this forum. It depends on how complex you want your setup to be. You can go with VLANs but this can get over complicated if you just require simple segmentation. I suggest you go with getting an extra NIC.

Modesty

If ican't add speed from WAN 1 + WAN2 i have been played by a youtuber, HA HA :-)

He did this arithmetic and showed before after speed on speedtest.net

To really be sure, if i have2 WANS from different ISPs. It is not possible to increase the speed due to native TCP/IP operation?

Is there any way to do this wan1+wan2->LAN1?

So maybe the conclusion is that 2 WANs gives me "only" redundancy and fail safe operation, nothing more?

By the way, my APU has 3 NICs and no more space to add a NIC.

M

jahonix

Your PC opens a connection to a web server through one of the WANs, be it downloading a web site for viewing, streaming some media, getting a file, whatever. To the same server it will not (aka never) use your second WAN. However, simultaneously downloading from server A via WAN A and downloading something different from server B through WAN B will use both WANs and the total speed you see is its sum.

What does not work (with both WANs being 2Mbps for example) is streaming a live video with a 4Mbit rate.
Of course you can download the latest pfSense ISO with 2Mbit through one of your WANs and Windows updates with another 2Mbit through the other WAN simultaneously. That's how load-balancing works.

What some random people show on YT is oftentimes highly questionable.

@Modesty:

So maybe the conclusion is that 2 WANs gives me "only" redundancy and fail safe operation, nothing more?

Did you actually read (and understand) what I wrote or earlier?
You can load-balance with two or more WANs. OR you could use fail-over. Depends on what you want.

Edit:
But all of this still leaves you with one NIC short for your apartment. Get a managed switch for that and you're fine. I prefer Cisco SG300-10 for such tasks. Grab 'em cheap on eBay or such while you still can, they are end-of-sale and the successors SG350 are pricier (but will not do your job any better).

Modesty

Hi all

I did now understand it, no bandwidth bundling. Thanks for all info.

I have connected it and now i have a fail over config. WAN1 +2 -> LAN, if one wan goes down the other take over.

On wan1 i have speed 250/20 on wan2 i have speed 250/250.
My box is chosing wan1 by default (slowest one).

Can i configure PF sense to choose wan2 by defalut without changing physical NIC?

jahonix

Reverse order?

Modesty

@jahonix:

Reverse order?

Thanks jahonix

Reverse…? not sure... If I unplug both RJ45 and change order it works with todays setup, if I do this all pfsense config on WAN1-2 is wrong.

I was hoping to config priority in pfsense to:
WAN2 -> pri1
WAN1 -> pri2

If something fail on WAN2 WAN1 kicks in (fail safe).

(of course, i will set up load balancing, but first i will set up priority and fail safe)

Thanks

jahonix

@https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Multi-WAN:

Weight
By default all WANs on the same tier are considered equal when doing load balancing. If the WANs are different speeds, the weight parameter allows the system to give some bias toward a faster link. If one is a 50Mbit line and another is a 10Mbit line, sharing them equally is not desirable as it would often leave the 50Mbit line underloaded and the 10Mbit line overloaded. The 50MBit line can be given a weight of 5 so that there is a 5:1 ratio of usage to prefer the faster WAN.

https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Troubleshoot_Outbound_Load_Balancing_Issues

supermon

From what I've experienced so far, you can chose which GW you want as default, but when you have your gateway groups setup / failover and the system switches to the fallback WAN, it doesn't automatically switch back to the default GW and it stays there until somehow triggered back by the FB mechanism. This is probably how the Round Robin works in PFS. It behaves similar to a Dell's Sonicwall in terms of interface priority switching and source and destination IP binding. Probably you can tweak the probing and weight of the gateways to ensure that the one which has the faster connection remains as the default.

Modesty

Hi.

I have not managed to make a WLAN split 1 wan -> 2 WLANS. 1 apartemen +1 house

My setup:
wan1+wan2 -> 2 NICS in pfsense box, NIC 3 to-> manages switch (Ubiquiti thoug switch) - 3 AP Ubiquiti

the 3 APS setup is 2 pcs for house 2 pcs for apartment use

My pfsens has max 3 NICs so it is full by today.

Can anybody help me find a guide/video thats step by step guides me thru the steps in pfsense?

And if possible some info if i also do need to setup my switch.

Thanks up front!

jahonix

@Modesty:

the 3 APS setup is 2 pcs for house 2 pcs for apartment use

what?

@Modesty:

And if possible some info if i also do need to setup my switch.

This is a necessity when using VLANs.

Ryu945

@Modesty:

If ican't add speed from WAN 1 + WAN2 i have been played by a youtuber, HA HA :-)

He did this arithmetic and showed before after speed on speedtest.net

To really be sure, if i have2 WANS from different ISPs. It is not possible to increase the speed due to native TCP/IP operation?

Is there any way to do this wan1+wan2->LAN1?

So maybe the conclusion is that 2 WANs gives me "only" redundancy and fail safe operation, nothing more?

By the way, my APU has 3 NICs and no more space to add a NIC.

M

From my understanding. Two WANs allows you to be at full speed on one connection while the activity of someone else is on the other WAN. Essentially, acts exactly the same as having twice the internet speed as long as no individual tries to go over 50%. That is when your notice a difference.

There is a way to solve even this problem if your willing to spend money every month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqbnjgbtDl0

jahonix

@Ryu945:

Essentially, acts exactly the same as having twice the internet speed as long as no individual tries to go over 50%.

Well, you have to dring a lot of marketing water to describe it that way. Basically it's bullshit. But that was described above already.

@Ryu945:

There is a way to solve even this problem if your willing to spend money every month.

Additional money to your ISP bills! The black-box described in the video connects to a server in a datacenter which rejoins the packets into a single stream. This only works with near identical lines and goes haystack when one has significant more latency (due to more routing hops etc.) than the other.
To be somewhat useful you would have to find a provider who offers this in your area. That might be your first problem.

Modesty

@jahonix:

@Modesty:

the 3 APS setup is 2 pcs for house 2 pcs for apartment use

what?

Uncelar, hopfully better text:
My 3 access points is placed like this: 2 AP's in my house and one 1 AP in the flat

@jahonix:

@Modesty:

And if possible some info if i also do need to setup my switch.

This is a necessity when using VLANs.

Yes, i have understood that, my "simple" problem is that I don't know how to set up pfsense (I have tried but no luck) and also how to set this up in my router.

So I was hoping there was a guide somewhere on Internet :-)

Maybe one option is to share my computer in a Team View session and get some pro help, but i'm not shure if forum users do stuff like that, even if i pay… So i try a little bit more.

jahonix

@Modesty:

… I don't know how to set up pfsense ... and also how to set this up in my router.

Usually pfSense IS your router. You mean your switch, don't you?

@Modesty:

Maybe one option is to share my computer in a Team View session and get some pro help, …

That could be complicated because you can easily shoot yourself in the foot and have no access to the equipment anymore, especially when configuring a switch and VLANs.

Your switch and APs are: "manages switch (Ubiquiti thoug switch) - 3 AP Ubiquiti"
I have absolutely no experience with Ubiquiti gear so I won't be the one to configure it for.
Maybe someone else here (perhaps post something in the "Bounty" section of this forum) or pfSense Commercial Support?

Ryu945

@jahonix:

@Ryu945:

Essentially, acts exactly the same as having twice the internet speed as long as no individual tries to go over 50%.

Well, you have to dring a lot of marketing water to describe it that way. Basically it's bullshit. But that was described above already.

Is there an implementation issue with two WANs servicing a bunch of smaller request?

jahonix

2x 10Mbps will stay 2x 10Mbps. You won't be able to receive a single stream with 20Mbps. With the one exception of an additional service as mentioned above in the YT video.