2 ISP to 2 WANs and make 2 LANs



  • Hi

    i have set up pfsens to load balance 2 WANs (from 2 ISPs)
    Now i would like to share 1 ekstra lan to my rental aparment. In this way i make one lan for my house and one for the apartment.

    My pfsense box is connected to a switch and apartment is wired to this switch.

    I was thinking to make one extra DHCP service for this but i cant find a way. Do i need to make a VLAN?

    M



  • If you need to use VLANs depends on your setup, pfSense hardware, switch and need to separate apartment traffic from your LAN.
    Is your switch VLAN capable or do you have a spare interface in your pfSense (or could you just throw in an additional NIC)?



  • Hi

    I have a apu with 3 nics, plan to have 2 wan in one lan out.

    Was hoping pfsense could handle house an apartment by itself so switch could stay out of the equation.

    Faile safe is nice but bundling bandwidth and 2 separeye lans is my imediate needs, but i dont figure out how to set it up.

    Thanks



  • With a 3-port APU you're missing at least one physical interface.
    Without a managed switch you will not be able to use VLANs and configure another subnet for your apartment. No way of doing so.

    @Modesty:

    Faile safe is nice but bundling bandwidth and 2 separeye lans is my imediate needs

    Failsafe?
    You are aware that two WANs 'bundled' will NOT get you the sum of both connection speeds, aren't you?
    2x 1Mbps will always be 2x 1Mbps and not 1x 2Mbps. Has nothing to do with pfSense, that's a basic TCP/IP limitation.



  • Hello There, I'm also new to this forum. It depends on how complex you want your setup to be. You can go with VLANs but this can get over complicated if you just require simple segmentation. I suggest you go with getting an extra NIC.



  • If ican't add speed from WAN 1 + WAN2 i have been played by a youtuber, HA HA :-)

    He did this arithmetic and showed before after speed on speedtest.net

    To really be sure, if i have2 WANS from different ISPs. It is not possible to increase the speed due to native TCP/IP operation?

    Is there any way to do this wan1+wan2->LAN1?

    So maybe the conclusion is that 2 WANs gives me "only" redundancy and fail safe operation, nothing more?

    By the way, my APU has 3 NICs and no more space to add a NIC.

    M



  • Your PC opens a connection to a web server through one of the WANs, be it downloading a web site for viewing, streaming some media, getting a file, whatever. To the same server it will not (aka never) use your second WAN. However, simultaneously downloading from server A via WAN A and downloading something different from server B through WAN B will use both WANs and the total speed you see is its sum.

    What does not work (with both WANs being 2Mbps for example) is streaming a live video with a 4Mbit rate.
    Of course you can download the latest pfSense ISO with 2Mbit through one of your WANs and Windows updates with another 2Mbit through the other WAN simultaneously. That's how load-balancing works.

    What some random people show on YT is oftentimes highly questionable.

    @Modesty:

    So maybe the conclusion is that 2 WANs gives me "only" redundancy and fail safe operation, nothing more?

    Did you actually read (and understand) what I wrote or earlier?
    You can load-balance with two or more WANs. OR you could use fail-over. Depends on what you want.

    Edit:
    But all of this still leaves you with one NIC short for your apartment. Get a managed switch for that and you're fine. I prefer Cisco SG300-10 for such tasks. Grab 'em cheap on eBay or such while you still can, they are end-of-sale and the successors SG350 are pricier (but will not do your job any better).



  • Hi all

    I did now understand it, no bandwidth bundling. Thanks for all info.

    I have connected it and now i have a fail over config. WAN1 +2 -> LAN, if one wan goes down the other take over.

    On wan1 i have speed 250/20 on wan2 i have speed 250/250.
    My box is chosing wan1 by default (slowest one).

    Can i configure PF sense to choose wan2 by defalut without changing physical NIC?



  • Reverse order?



  • @jahonix:

    Reverse order?

    Thanks jahonix

    Reverse…? not sure... If I unplug both RJ45 and change order it works with todays setup, if I do this all pfsense config on WAN1-2 is wrong.

    I was hoping to config priority in pfsense to:
    WAN2 -> pri1
    WAN1 -> pri2

    If something fail on WAN2 WAN1 kicks in (fail safe).

    (of course, i will set up load balancing, but first i will set up priority and fail safe)

    Thanks



  • @https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Multi-WAN:

    Weight
    By default all WANs on the same tier are considered equal when doing load balancing. If the WANs are different speeds, the weight parameter allows the system to give some bias toward a faster link. If one is a 50Mbit line and another is a 10Mbit line, sharing them equally is not desirable as it would often leave the 50Mbit line underloaded and the 10Mbit line overloaded. The 50MBit line can be given a weight of 5 so that there is a 5:1 ratio of usage to prefer the faster WAN.

    https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Troubleshoot_Outbound_Load_Balancing_Issues



  • From what I've experienced so far, you can chose which GW you want as default, but when you have your gateway groups setup / failover and the system switches to the fallback WAN, it doesn't automatically switch back to the default GW and it stays there until somehow triggered back by the FB mechanism. This is probably how the Round Robin works in PFS. It behaves similar to a Dell's Sonicwall in terms of interface priority switching and source and destination IP binding. Probably you can tweak the probing and weight of the gateways to ensure that the one which has the faster connection remains as the default.



  • Hi.

    I have not managed to make a WLAN split 1 wan -> 2 WLANS. 1 apartemen +1 house

    My setup:
    wan1+wan2 -> 2 NICS in pfsense  box, NIC 3 to-> manages switch (Ubiquiti thoug switch) - 3 AP Ubiquiti

    the 3 APS setup is 2 pcs for house 2 pcs for apartment use

    My pfsens has max 3 NICs so it is full by today.

    Can anybody help me find a guide/video thats step by step guides me thru the steps in pfsense?

    And if possible some info if i also do need to setup my switch.

    Thanks up front!



  • @Modesty:

    the 3 APS setup is 2 pcs for house 2 pcs for apartment use

    what?

    @Modesty:

    And if possible some info if i also do need to setup my switch.

    This is a necessity when using VLANs.



  • @Modesty:

    If ican't add speed from WAN 1 + WAN2 i have been played by a youtuber, HA HA :-)

    He did this arithmetic and showed before after speed on speedtest.net

    To really be sure, if i have2 WANS from different ISPs. It is not possible to increase the speed due to native TCP/IP operation?

    Is there any way to do this wan1+wan2->LAN1?

    So maybe the conclusion is that 2 WANs gives me "only" redundancy and fail safe operation, nothing more?

    By the way, my APU has 3 NICs and no more space to add a NIC.

    M

    From my understanding.  Two WANs allows you to be at full speed on one connection while the activity of someone else is on the other WAN.  Essentially, acts exactly the same as having twice the internet speed as long as no individual tries to go over 50%.    That is when your notice a difference.

    There is a way to solve even this problem if your willing to spend money every month.

    Youtube Video



  • @Ryu945:

    Essentially, acts exactly the same as having twice the internet speed as long as no individual tries to go over 50%.

    Well, you have to dring a lot of marketing water to describe it that way. Basically it's bullshit. But that was described above already.

    @Ryu945:

    There is a way to solve even this problem if your willing to spend money every month.

    Additional money to your ISP bills! The black-box described in the video connects to a server in a datacenter which rejoins the packets into a single stream. This only works with near identical lines and goes haystack when one has significant more latency (due to more routing hops etc.) than the other.
    To be somewhat useful you would have to find a provider who offers this in your area. That might be your first problem.



  • @jahonix:

    @Modesty:

    the 3 APS setup is 2 pcs for house 2 pcs for apartment use

    what?

    Uncelar, hopfully better text:
    My 3 access points is placed like this: 2 AP's in my house and one 1 AP in the flat

    @jahonix:

    @Modesty:

    And if possible some info if i also do need to setup my switch.

    This is a necessity when using VLANs.

    Yes, i have understood that, my "simple" problem is that I don't know how to set up pfsense (I have tried but no luck) and also how to set this up in my router.

    So I was hoping there was a guide somewhere on Internet :-)

    Maybe one option is to share my computer in a Team View session and get some pro help, but i'm not shure if forum users do stuff like that, even if i pay… So i try a little bit more.



  • @Modesty:

    … I don't know how to set up pfsense ... and also how to set this up in my router.

    Usually pfSense IS your router. You mean your switch, don't you?

    @Modesty:

    Maybe one option is to share my computer in a Team View session and get some pro help, …

    That could be complicated because you can easily shoot yourself in the foot and have no access to the equipment anymore, especially when configuring a switch and VLANs.

    Your switch and APs are: "manages switch (Ubiquiti thoug switch) - 3 AP Ubiquiti"
    I have absolutely no experience with Ubiquiti gear so I won't be the one to configure it for.
    Maybe someone else here (perhaps post something in the "Bounty" section of this forum) or pfSense Commercial Support?



  • @jahonix:

    @Ryu945:

    Essentially, acts exactly the same as having twice the internet speed as long as no individual tries to go over 50%.

    Well, you have to dring a lot of marketing water to describe it that way. Basically it's bullshit. But that was described above already.

    Is there an implementation issue with two WANs servicing a bunch of smaller request?



  • 2x 10Mbps will stay 2x 10Mbps. You won't be able to receive a single stream with 20Mbps. With the one exception of an additional service as mentioned above in the YT video.



  • @jahonix:

    2x 10Mbps will stay 2x 10Mbps. You won't be able to receive a single stream with 20Mbps. With the one exception of an additional service as mentioned above in the YT video.

    I said that.  What it sounded like you were implying is that if you had four people pulling 5 mb/s on a duel 10 mb/s connection.  It is somehow faster for that same load to be on a single 20 mb/s connection.



  • My nettwork pr today in attachment.

    Same question, how to split my nett in 2 separete nets (WLAN)

    M




  • Hi

    i follwed a guide and ended with setup as in printscreens.

    VLAN_5 has DHCP 192.168.5.0/24

    I can log on to VLAN_5 and reach all internal resources. The problem now is that I can not reach any internet resources (WAN) side.

    I hope that anyone of you can take a look at my screenshots and give me tips to solve this.

    Pic 7-9 is my unify+switch, im not shure if this setup is correct, but as mentioned, i can connect wireless to VLAN_5, and i get IP from VLAN_5 DHCP server

    PIC 7+8 mu UniFy setup regarding VLAN_5

    Pic 9 My switch config. I struggle tu inderstand tags (TUE) and trunk ports. This is not PF sense case, but part of my trouble.

    Thanks!



    ![2.interfaces network port.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/2.interfaces network port.png)
    ![2.interfaces network port.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/2.interfaces network port.png_thumb)
    ![3.DHCP VLAN_5.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/3.DHCP VLAN_5.png)
    ![3.DHCP VLAN_5.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/3.DHCP VLAN_5.png_thumb)


    ![5.interfaces status VLAN_5.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/5.interfaces status VLAN_5.png_thumb)
    ![6.No internet vlan_5.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/6.No internet vlan_5.png)
    ![6.No internet vlan_5.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/6.No internet vlan_5.png_thumb)
    ![7.Ubiguiti VLAN_5 setup.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/7.Ubiguiti VLAN_5 setup.png)
    ![7.Ubiguiti VLAN_5 setup.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/7.Ubiguiti VLAN_5 setup.png_thumb)
    ![8.Ubiguiti wireless setup.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/8.Ubiguiti wireless setup.png)
    ![8.Ubiguiti wireless setup.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/8.Ubiguiti wireless setup.png_thumb)
    ![9.Ubiguiti switch vlan_5.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/9.Ubiguiti switch vlan_5.png)
    ![9.Ubiguiti switch vlan_5.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/9.Ubiguiti switch vlan_5.png_thumb)
    ![5.interfaces status VLAN_5.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/5.interfaces status VLAN_5.png)



  • If you do a packet capture on pfsense do you see packets from the WiFi network ?

    Capture on vlan5 first, then try the WAN.

    It could be the fact that you've got two WAN interfaces.

    Can you access the internet from the LAN fine ?



  • Modesty - I updated my post as to how I set up my switch. I am not familiar with your model but the Unifi AP needs to be on the same L2 to adopt(if you got access it looks like you already have that), if so wouldn't that mean you are on your LAn interface(Not VLAN 5)? If you think you can adopt your Unifi AP on a VLAN…you can't...if that is a hint.

    One inconvenience is I need to change my ethernet connection to log onto pfSense/Unifi AP and the switch. Could that be your issue?

    To NogBad's point are you able to browse the internet on Lan? Do you see logs/blocks on your firewall? Did you "filter reload" after disabling the block rule? Good old fashion restart of your box? What clients have leases? Thise would be some of the trouble shooting things I would do...

    I have never done 2 WANs so not sure of that configuration or implications...I hope my switch configuration helps...



  • Hi V3lcr0!

    You are absolutely giving me good info.

    When i connect to vlan 5 i dont reach internet. I get an ip 192.168.5.100 wich is correct. And i can log on to pfsense 192.158.5.1 + unify controller
    My switch stops traffic to other nets, and in unify controller all ap's are disconnected…

    When i go back to my normal wlan the router dont change ip, i get the 192.168.5.100 i stead of 192.168.0.100. So then i connect with a cable and get my 192.168.0.100. And then in controller ap's are adopted again except the one i have tagget out from router vlan id5

    I have 2 wans, but i only use one due to difficulties to understand this, first i need t get this vlan5 work.

    I see pacets from the net when capturing vlan and LAN while on vlan5

    From "normal" wlan i reach internet easy, but not from the wlan id5

    I also got some help from ubnt to controll switch setup and controller setup for VLAN5 and wlan on tag 5 so i think it is OK now.

    Yes rebooted pfsense also, no change.

    I really dont know the next step... shit...


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