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    Looking to learn, any advice appreciated

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved L2/Switching/VLANs
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    • JKnottJ
      JKnott @wilsouk
      last edited by

      @wilsouk said in Looking to learn, any advice appreciated:

      Also, I presume you can also daisy chain managed switches, being specific about which VLANs you send to the next switch?

      First off, daisy chaining switches is a bad practice. Create a tree structure, with one root switch. That root switch would likely be where most of the data is going, such as the Internet connection, servers etc. Second, switches supporting VLANs are commonly connected with trunk ports, not access ports. Trunk ports pass all VLANs or as configured. Access ports are normally on one VLAN, though there are exceptions, such as Cisco switches, where a 2nd VLAN supporting VoIP might be used on an access port.

      PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
      i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
      UniFi AC-Lite access point

      I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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      • W
        wilsouk @JKnott
        last edited by

        @jknott Cheers. For my education, why is daisy chaining bad practice? In my case would (or could) the PFsense box act as the root switch?

        I dont think I could get around daisy chaining in my set up how things are physically wired wise:

        PFSENSE -> NIC1 -> SWITCH hall -> SWITCH living room -> SWITCH kitchen (terminates)

        And if used some VLANs would have devices attached to all of these switches...

        JKnottJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • JKnottJ
          JKnott @wilsouk
          last edited by

          @wilsouk said in Looking to learn, any advice appreciated:

          For my education, why is daisy chaining bad practice?

          When you daisy chain packets have to travel hop by hop to get where they need to go. That means more hops than a tree structure and more hops means more latency, so it would slow down the network a bit. In large networks, a tree structure is what you'd normally use.

          Hierarchical internetworking model

          PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
          i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
          UniFi AC-Lite access point

          I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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          • johnpozJ
            johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
            last edited by johnpoz

            Lets not confuse users with terms they do not understand ;)

            Having a downstream switch is not a problem.. Nor is latency going to be a problem even if you had 4 or 5 switches in a daisy chain..

            What you have to be aware of when you daisy chain switches is not the latency but the bottleneck you create in the uplink..

            If your router

            router --- switch1 --- switch2 ---- switch3 --- pc

            In such a scenario the latency is not going to be an issue - your taking maybe 1 ms.. But the problem is those uplinks are going to be your choke points.. To either get to internet or another network or other devices..

            While sure ok its gig from router to switch1, but keep in mind you have all devices on switch1, 2 and 3 all going to go through that 1 gig pipe to the router to get to the next network. All the devices on switch2 and 3 will share the uplink talking to devices on switch 1, etc.

            Its not the latency that is going to be an issue - switches do not add any significant latency unless your talking about doing high speed trading in the stock exchanges, etc. In such a case you would be using cut through switches vs store and forward, etc.

            In your typical enterprise/soho/home network its not the latency of daisy chaining that is ever going to be an issue. Its he choking of the bandwidth you should be worried about.

            So if you want to hang a dumb switch off your smart switch to add a few devices in vlan X - that is more than fine and not an issue.. But down't think its ok to have

            router --- dumbswitch - smartswitch -- dumbswitch - pc

            That is going to be an issue.

            But you can do

            router -- smartswitch - dumbswitch - dumbswitch

            As long as you understand that all devices that are connected to the dumbswitches are all in the vlan you assigned to the port the on the smartswitch you connected the dumbswitch too. And that the bandwidth will be shared as you move up your true to the router.

            An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
            If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
            Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
            SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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            • DerelictD
              Derelict LAYER 8 Netgate
              last edited by Derelict

              The real issue is if the first switch in the chain dies, your whole network is down.

              This is why enterprises invest heavily in "core" switching fabrics that everything else connects to.

              Core switching cannot go down. Ever. Especially when millions of dollars go unearned (or millions of payroll is being spent with no work done) when it stops forwarding frames.

              In your house, who cares.

              Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA
              A comprehensive network diagram is worth 10,000 words and 15 conference calls.
              DO NOT set a source address/port in a port forward or firewall rule unless you KNOW you need it!
              Do Not Chat For Help! NO_WAN_EGRESS(TM)

              JKnottJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • JKnottJ
                JKnott @Derelict
                last edited by

                @derelict said in Looking to learn, any advice appreciated:

                In your house, who cares.

                Maybe we should help him set up Shortest Path Bridging. ☺

                PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
                i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
                UniFi AC-Lite access point

                I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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                • W
                  wilsouk @johnpoz
                  last edited by

                  @johnpoz Great, thanks - lot clearer now. Your right, as 90% of traffic will be going through switch 1, with two smaller switches off this. Would setting LAGG between two NICs from router going into the main switch help combat bandwidth issues? Or am I going against the KISS princple?!

                  @derelict Cheers, yes very much just wanting to understand the theory behind. I'm conscious of not overkilling it for a home network!

                  JKnottJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • DerelictD
                    Derelict LAYER 8 Netgate
                    last edited by

                    @wilsouk said in Looking to learn, any advice appreciated:

                    Would setting LAGG between two NICs from router going into the main switch help combat bandwidth issues?

                    Are you routinely seeing more than about 400Mbit/sec sustained inside? If not, don't sweat it.

                    Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA
                    A comprehensive network diagram is worth 10,000 words and 15 conference calls.
                    DO NOT set a source address/port in a port forward or firewall rule unless you KNOW you need it!
                    Do Not Chat For Help! NO_WAN_EGRESS(TM)

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                    • JKnottJ
                      JKnott @wilsouk
                      last edited by

                      @wilsouk said in Looking to learn, any advice appreciated:

                      Would setting LAGG between two NICs from router going into the main switch help combat bandwidth issues?

                      Unless you have more than 1 Gb bandwidth from your ISP, it won't make a bit of different. Your local LAN is not likely to be a bottleneck.

                      PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
                      i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
                      UniFi AC-Lite access point

                      I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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                      • johnpozJ
                        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                        last edited by

                        could make a difference if he is doing intervlan routing at pfsense be it his internet is 10 or 10ge, etc.

                        lagg not going to really help unless you have lots of devices talking to lots of other devices across the uplink.

                        An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                        If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                        Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                        SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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