pfSense on Watchguard M370
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@mookatroid I’m actually looking for an interface card that will work with the M470, not the actual SFP modules. Is there some sort of adapter that will allow me to connect a normal PCIE card to the device? The actual Watchguard interface card is hard to find and crazy expensive. I need a minimum of 2 ports.
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The slot is just a standard PCIe slot AFAIK. Just the form factor is different. You could probably make it work with one of those flexible PCIe cable adapters and some metalwork on the case.
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@stephenw10 I am thinking the same thing. Is there any recommended 2 or 4 port SFP+ cards that that are fairly power efficient and work well with OPNSense that I should look for? Sorry for all the questions, I just don’t want to purchase some crap card by mistake.
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Yes
The interface used by the WatchGuard 4-port 10G module is a standard 8x PCI-e slot.
You can install an 8x extension cable and then plug in an Intel X520-SR1 or X520-SR2 and pfSense detects and supports this. -
Now .... does anyone know if a VGA header is hiding somewhere on the M470 motherboard ?
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I don't think there is one. The Watchguard variant is quite different to the Lanner 4210 board. The VGA port location is just not present.
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@mookatroid I never tried to use the VGA Header (if it has one) I installed the OS in a different machine, enabled console output and then moved the drive into Watchguard and used the console connection to do all remaining setup and tweaks.
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So in theory, can one now use the discovered BIOS password to set it to boot via USB and install pfSense that way? Or is it still suggested to just install outside of the Firebox?
Currently running 2.6.0 on an XTM5 with a Core2Duo E7400 and 4GB of RAM. Will have access to an M370 soon and wondering if it's worth upgrading to it. I don't feel compelled to go through the reflashing of the BIOS process, but if it works fine with the locked BIOS and the ability to set fan speeds thanks to @stephenw10, I think I'd be fine. Can you update the CPU and RAM without flashing the BIOS? What is the latest gen CPU you can add to the M370?Or should I just figure out how to reflash the BIOS?
Thanks for all the work on this unit. Looks like it will be a huge upgrade, looking at the specs.
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Yes, you can just set it to boot from USB which simplifies the process. A lot!
You can switch out the CPU and RAM etc without flashing anything. I'm not sure if you run 7th gen CPUs, I've never tried but I think the chipset may support that. Check the thread. I have an i3 6100T in the M470 I have and it's more than sufficient for my use. Also uses less power, runs cooler and faster if required than the default. However you cannot enable speedstep without flashing. I haven't had cause o try that yet.
Steve
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@soupman Did you have to reflash the BIOS to use the i5-7400 in your M370?
Thank you.
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@rflcptr Are the fan headers in the M370 12v or 5v? Looking to order the Noctua fans and getting parts ready. I don't have the M370 yet to tear into.
Thank you.
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@stephenw10 Thanks for the info. Haven't been able to find an answer to the CPU question yet. Oddly the i3 costs more than an i5-7400 or 7500.
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They are 4 wire 12V fans on a 5-pin header. See: https://forum.netgate.com/assets/uploads/files/1551402532089-watchguad_m370_internals.jpg
But you might want to wait until you hear them. They are fairly quiet once you turn them down in WGXepc.
Steve
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@stephenw10 Plus, with the BIOS password now known, can they not be adjusted that way ? Can't recall.
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@stephenw10 Right, good plan. Thank you. I'll wait.
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@mookatroid There are very few settings available unfortunately. Can't enabled EIST for example. I don't believe you can do anything but disable the smart fan control.
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@stephenw10 I am new to literally everything mentioned on this page. I am trying to get the WGXepc working so I can quiet down the fans on my M370 that I just got PFsense working on.
Idk if this is right: do I need to compile the c code into an .exe and move that onto the pfsense where I add a shellcmd command into the xml configuration file to make sure the exe runs everytime the machine boots? I'm stuck at the first part of that.
I tried to compile in Developer Command Prompt for VS 2022 on Windows 10 but got the error: "fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'unistd.h': No such file or directory".
I tried to do the same thing in Ubuntu running in VirtualBox on the same Windows 10 system but got the error: "WGXepc64.c:11:10: fatal error: machine/cpufunc.h: No such file or directory"
Is there an executable (if that's what I even need) available that I could download? I have no experience doing any of this and I'm just YouTubing my way through it. Thanks! -
You'd need to compile it on FreeBSD.
Google retired sites which is where it was hosted. I uploaded a binary to github, try this:
https://github.com/stephenw10/WGXepc/raw/master/WGXepc64Steve
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@stephenw10 I'm sure I'm doing everything the wrong way but Idk what I'm doing.
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I downloaded the binary WGXepc to my windows machine
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I uploaded to pfSense using the webgui Diagnostics>Command Prompt>Upload
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I used Putty SSH to pfSense and moved the binary from /tmp to /root
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Tried both ./WGXepc64 -1 green and ./WGXepc64 -f as admin and root and got permission denied
There's so many places I could have screwed up.
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You need to set the permissions to allow it to be executable. I just used:
chmod 0755 WGXepc64
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It's been a while since I started using this unit as my main pFSense router. It has been running undoubtedly perfect but i would like to get a little bit more of it.
I'm planning on going the Virtualization way with esxi (already tested) and more ram, more SSDs and a CPU Upgrade. Right now is running an i3 6100 but i would like to swap it for a Core i7 7700k, you know, those extra GHz and HT. Has anyone been able to get this particular CPU working in the m370? Also considering replacing the original heatsink for a Dynatron k199.Suggestions welcome.
Cheers.
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@nicknitro said in pfSense on Watchguard M370:
Also considering replacing the original heatsink for a Dynatron k199.
A ducted cooling solution, like the OEM setup, is better than that IMO. Expel the heat from the case rather than just blow air about inside it.
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@stephenw10 Got the idea, thanks for pointing that suggestion. A plastic shroud could handle it.
About the CPU, well I've seen someone used a 7th gen i5, haven't seen anyone using a i7 nor i7 (k) edition, there's a big difference in the CPU wattage per model, 61w vs 91w, perhaps that could be a limiting factor.Another factor I was considering is the lack of Intel Microcode in the BIOS for that i7 7700k, the only way is testing it but i don't have any around.
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The standard cooling solution is pretty good anyway. I think the M670 may have more fans pulling the air through.
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@stephenw10 I think both (m370 and m670) have the same board layout and 3 exhaust fans, the difference is chipset, CPU support and the PCIe X8 expansion.
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I love forums like this.
I've got a M370 and now I can access the BIOS and also upgraded to an I5 7500 CPU :D
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These M370s really make excellent pfSense boxes.
A few tips from having done a couple of them…-
The best CPU to use is an Intel Core i7-7700T. It’s fast, multithreaded and only 35W TDP. (QC/8MB/8T/2.9GHz/35W)
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These Crucial RAM modules work perfectly to give 32GB. Overkill, yes.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B019FRBCQE -
This Kingston KC600 mSATA SSD also works perfectly. Lots of room for logs.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B08ZNSNL1K -
Noctua NF-A4x20 PWM fans make it silent but make sure you move the blue wire over from pin 4 to pin 5, otherwise they’ll run at full blast with no PWM.
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The PSU fan can also be replaced by a Noctua NF-A4x10 FLX. Remove the 3 pins from the fan connector, cut the yellow wire, and then solder the black and red onto the circuit board on the side where the old fan was previously connected.
You’re left with a totally silent and fast pfSense box. These Watchguards are really beautifully built.
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Thank Lanner.
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@ost0 Thank you very much for this. This has literally stopped a lot of these boxes just going to e-waste. Nice work!
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@Squuiid some of the credit should go to WatchGuard for storing the password in plaintext in the UEFI module, and of course PfSense devs.
I would warn on the Noctua conversion that for the same PWM signal the Noctuas does have a lot less airflow than the stock fans, so temperatures might be higher, just something to keep in mind.
I've got a very similar setup, Cruical RAM, Noctua Fan conversion, though still on stock CPU. For the SSD I've got an mSATA to M.2 Adapter running an M.2 SATA SSD from an old laptop, and no issues so far!
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Terrific Upgrades.
I'm waiting for the 7700 non T and a Dual 2.5" adapter to accommodate two 1tb SATA INTEL s4510. I'm going the virtualization way.
I think the only missing and important part for this m370s is a most recent Bios Update to comply with the CVEs and Microcodes.
Has anybody found a solution for updating a most recent BIOS? -
The fan control system is based on the CPU temperature. If you put it under enough load the fans should ramp up anyway. The Noctua fans would just have to be ramped higher to get the same air flow but the default fans never run at maximum speed so it would likely be fine. By fitting them what you're really doing is reducing the minimum airflow which is where those boxes operate most of the time in my experience. The CPU runs pretty cool but other components will likely run hotter. I've seen no issues running with the standard fans at a reduced speed.
How much quieter are the Noctua fans compared to the standard fans set to run at speed
a
for example?Steve
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@stephenw10 I've not done a comparison for both at the same speed, but Noctua Fans with no PWM signal connected, so running at full, are quieter than the stock fans at a normal idle speed.
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I'd guess a test at the same air flow would be needed, but I'm not sure how I'd do that! I guess setting the default fans to produce the same CPU temp at a known load would be fair.
Basically it's always been my belief that although the Noctua fans are aerodynamically better they achieve lower sound levels mostly by simply moving less air.
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Hey Nick,
How did you go about installing exsi on a headless system?
I tried setting up a kickstarter file using this guide: https://www.virten.net/2014/12/unattended-esxi-installations-from-an-usb-flash-drive/
and setting up the serial console using parts from here: www.vmwareadmins.com/installing-esxi-serial-console-headless-video-card/
I can boot from USB but when it installs it cant seem to find any fixed disks and then installs to the USB stick, my guess is drivers but have you got any idea what I need to add to the iso at all?
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Esxi 6.5 is the latest you can install..maybe 6.7. Definitely not 7.0 as that version does not support the sata ports.
I ran esxi 6.5 from usb. Used the msata to store iso's and sata ssd's to store the vm's
I switched to proxmox 8.0. Got a custom debian iso from https://fai-project.org/FAIme/# that gives an auto headless install with ssh. After that enable serial console and add the proxmox
https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Install_Proxmox_VE_on_Debian_11_Bullseye and you are on your way. -
Ah thats where I was going wrong then! I started off with 8.0 then 7.0 but nothing below that i'll give 6.7 a go, let people know how I get on, thanks again and for the heads up for promox too.
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@tapnet said in pfSense on Watchguard M370:
Ah thats where I was going wrong then! I started off with 8.0 then 7.0 but nothing below that i'll give 6.7 a go, let people know how I get on, thanks again and for the heads up for promox too.
Just wanted to update on this.
6.7 installs fine works really well, I would recommend using a Kickstarter file for unnattneded access.
I upgrade the CPU with a i5 7600k without needing to make any changes to bios or microcode. I am still running on the standard bios.
Now just need to configure virtual pfsense and retire my USG-3P thanks again.
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Did you or anyone get anywhere with this? I have a female to female pcie cable and a Intel X530-DA2 card I can see the card powering on and evidence of life in unfi but its not being seen at all by esxi I tried all in the latest VIB file from vmware but its being superseeded so wont install I am going to make a 3d printed enclosure for the card so it wont just sit out the case like that :)
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@tapnet said in pfSense on Watchguard M370:
evidence of life in unfi
What exactly are you seeing there?