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    Pfsense in Stateless mode

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Firewalling
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    • T
      Thoufiq
      last edited by

      Can we run pfsense as a complete stateless firewall? Please help....

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      • jimpJ
        jimp Rebel Alliance Developer Netgate
        last edited by

        Yes, but it isn't something most people would need to do.

        You can either disable pf entirely, or you can add floating rules using State Type of None to pass traffic in every direction. You will need a ton of rules to act in that way, however. Four for any single action. For example (in LAN, out WAN, in WAN, out LAN).

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        T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • T
          Thoufiq
          last edited by

          Thanks....I tried the second option.I have a test setup in which i usually login firewall via LAN ip. As soon as i added the rules with state type of none the firewall become unreachable... unable to figure out why...

          telservT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • T
            Thoufiq @jimp
            last edited by

            @jimp If i want to allow all the traffic to my internal network from the internet, I only need four rules right?

            Please correct me if my configuration is wrong
            Eg....
            In LAN-Source any to destination LAN segment(x.x.x.x/23)
            Out WAN-Source Public subnet (y.y.y.y/z) to destination any
            In WAN-Source any to destination Public Subnet (y.y.y.y/z)
            Out LAN- Source LAN Segment (x.x.x.x/23) to Destination Any

            jimpJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • johnpozJ
              johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
              last edited by johnpoz

              What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Why would you want/need a stateless firewall.. Is this the early 90s with old school packet filter?

              Do you mean you want a router? That doesn't firewall?

              An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
              If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
              Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
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              • telservT
                telserv @Thoufiq
                last edited by

                @thoufiq Similar problem. Adding 'allow all' rules, with state type of none, stopped all tcp connections on that LAN subnet. There must be something special about floating rules that you and I don't understand.

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                • jimpJ
                  jimp Rebel Alliance Developer Netgate @Thoufiq
                  last edited by

                  @thoufiq said in Pfsense in Stateless mode:

                  @jimp If i want to allow all the traffic to my internal network from the internet, I only need four rules right?

                  Please correct me if my configuration is wrong
                  Eg....
                  In LAN-Source any to destination LAN segment(x.x.x.x/23)

                  This is backwards. Traffic inbound on LAN is from your LAN segment, not to.

                  Out WAN-Source Public subnet (y.y.y.y/z) to destination any

                  That is OK

                  In WAN-Source any to destination Public Subnet (y.y.y.y/z)

                  That is OK

                  Out LAN- Source LAN Segment (x.x.x.x/23) to Destination Any

                  This is backward. Traffic exiting the LAN is going to your LAN.

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                  T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • T
                    Thoufiq @jimp
                    last edited by

                    @jimp Thanks...

                    Yes i tried..but it still keeps the states for the particular traffic.

                    jimpJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • T
                      Thoufiq @johnpoz
                      last edited by Thoufiq

                      @johnpoz ๐Ÿ˜† We have pfsense firewalls to allow/restrict the external access.We configure ACLs on the switches to restrict the internal access and the ACLs are becoming large and unable to manage. So We want to install pfsense firewall to restrict the internal access (Easy rules management) and act as a packet filter without holding any state...

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                      • johnpozJ
                        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                        last edited by

                        @thoufiq said in Pfsense in Stateless mode:

                        act as a packet filter without holding any state...

                        Why would not just use it as a stateful firewall? Trying to manage firewall rules at a L3 switch is going to be a PITA!!! Use a real firewall-router if you need to make anything but the most sweeping sort of restrictions at your L3 switch..

                        Someone should prob step back and look at the network design to make it easier to manage!!

                        An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                        If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                        Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
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                        telservT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • telservT
                          telserv @johnpoz
                          last edited by

                          @johnpoz My problem is a piece of equipment that does something that pfSense detects as a state failure, so it shuts down all tcp connections on that subnet. In order to get the equipment going, I need an 'allow all' rule for both the subnet and IPsec, but that still doesn't prevent pfSense from blocking traffic. So the question of how to eliminate stateful inspection on one or more subnets is quite relevant.

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                          • jimpJ
                            jimp Rebel Alliance Developer Netgate @Thoufiq
                            last edited by

                            @thoufiq said in Pfsense in Stateless mode:

                            @jimp Thanks...

                            Yes i tried..but it still keeps the states for the particular traffic.

                            Then your rules were not right. Maybe you didn't check 'quick' on the floating rules, or maybe some part of the traffic isn't matching them. Make sure they are at the top of the interface rule list (and floating rules list)

                            @telserv said in Pfsense in Stateless mode:

                            @johnpoz My problem is a piece of equipment that does something that pfSense detects as a state failure, so it shuts down all tcp connections on that subnet. In order to get the equipment going, I need an 'allow all' rule for both the subnet and IPsec, but that still doesn't prevent pfSense from blocking traffic. So the question of how to eliminate stateful inspection on one or more subnets is quite relevant.

                            So fix the other device so it doesn't do that :)

                            Or don't go stateless, but setup sloppy state rules:

                            https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/firewall/troubleshooting-blocked-log-entries-due-to-asymmetric-routing.html

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                            telservT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • telservT
                              telserv @jimp
                              last edited by

                              @jimp said in Pfsense in Stateless mode:

                              So fix the other device so it doesn't do that :)
                              Yea, don't I wish. Step 1 would be to define the problem, which I haven't been able to do yet.
                              Or don't go stateless, but setup sloppy state rules:
                              Unfortunately, sloppy state rules don't work either.

                              My current goal is to get this working in stateless mode, and then slowly add firewall rules to protect things. I tried it the other way around (firewall rules first), but couldn't get pfSense to work long enough to get any work done. So the question remains, after I've tried 'allow all' rules that have the state set to either keep, sloppy, or none, and that doesn't work, and I can't throw out the oddball product, what do I try next to allow traffic thru.

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