Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect
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@RickyBaker said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
6 AP's i'm not sure about channel but I can check later today. I plan on doing extensive testing on my only wired desktop.
Ok, so with that many AP's I'm guessing we are talking about quite an area to cover? Several floors perhaps?
I think you need to do some radio planning...If you have an Android device there are plenty of apps that will help you map out what channels are in use, and to some extent how much they are used. Unifi has an App that is quite good called WiFiman (probably available on iOS as well, but not sure what functions you get there).
That will help you select channels on your AP's based on what you neighbours are using, or not using rather. I have selected the busiest channel for my AP in the basement since it's somewhat shielded from others AP's. And the one on the top floor "sees" most of my neighbours, so it's on the channel where I see the lowest number of SSID's, and/or the lowest signal strength from others.On 2.4 Ghz you essentially only have three channels that are not overlapping, ch 1, 6 and 11. Depending on how your AP's are located in relation to each other you can try to use e.g. Channel 1 on two AP's that are far away from each other. So if you had them in a long corridor for example, you would use channels 1, 6 and 11, and then 1, 6 and 11. That way each channel is only used twice and by AP's that are as far away from each other as possible.
On 5 Ghz you have way more spectrum to play with, but also there you need to watch for overlaps. So with your 80Mhz bandwidth that you use, you are looking at channels 36, 52, 100, 116, 132 and 149.
But since some channels in the upper range are used by radar, the AP may detect that and try to change. So a similar reuse pattern as on 2.4 can be used with only the lower channels. -
@RickyBaker yes
Start as simple as possible and then build up your network. I would concentrate on the double paths reported by your switch.I assume you run a unifi network application to optimise channel selection and minimise crosstalk.
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@Gblenn said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
Ok, so with that many AP's I'm guessing we are talking about quite an area to cover? Several floors perhaps?
I think you need to do some radio planning...@Patch said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
I assume you run a unifi network application to optimise channel selection and minimise crosstalk.
Well kind of, I live in Chicago so my house is straight up, so mostly it's 1 on each floor (doubled up on 1st/main and one in the garage). I run the Unifi Controller in a docker on my Unraid server and I THINK that that runs a channel optimization algorithm but this is a great thing to check, thank you both.
HOWEVER, I opened up my one hard wired PC and was having the same issue opening webpages. I could google things with zero latency but as soon as I clicked on a link it took an inordinate amt of time. So, I apologize for the red herring, but it's not a wifi thing.
My wife relocated the laptop i was running Wireguard on and I was unable to locate it during my down time last night. Hoping to find it tonight so if you have any suggestions of what to look for (or any other logs to look at/post) please do pass it on...
Not sure if this information is important but devices on my IoT VLAN get booted and reconnect frequently (As shown in that screenshot above). When sitting in my kitchen my Google Hub Max regularly shows animation of it "reconnecting" and sometimes I get a notification that one of my Nest Cams is offline, but by the time I click through the picture shows up. Not sure if this behavior gives anyone any ideas.
Also I was able to very smoothly watch a ton of Netflix last night so the internet seems fine. it's some kind of DNS translation? or multiple problems?
edit: I should also report that internet HAS worked fine in the past, was really exacerbated when my parents came but my wife is saying it started before that....
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@RickyBaker Perhaps a long shot, and probably not related, but somehow I get a feeling it resembles some problems I had when running KEA DHCP. Have you changed to that at some point?
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@Gblenn Yeah i think that was brought up when i was troubleshooting this other DNS issue but I'll double check, thank you for the suggestion:
https://forum.netgate.com/topic/187510/dns_probe_finished_nxdomain-sporadically-for-anywhere-from-30secs-to-10min-works-flawlessly-at-all-other-times/174?_=1744398908972
Spoiler alert, i solved that problem by disabling IP6 with "do-ip6: no" in the advanced settings of the DNSResolver...
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@Gblenn said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
@RickyBaker Perhaps a long shot, and probably not related, but somehow I get a feeling it resembles some problems I had when running KEA DHCP. Have you changed to that at some point?
so you're suggesting reverting the KEA change? and using the old method? (Just clarifying)
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@RickyBaker looking in the logs for frequent DHCP restarts would be worth checking
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@RickyBaker this sounds like a broadcast storm
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@Gblenn said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
KEA DHCP
So you're suggesting reverting this?
@Patch said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
@RickyBaker looking in the logs for frequent DHCP restarts would be worth checking
There were no instances of the word "restart" in the dhcp log and 16 in the System Log but mostly for php-fhm whatever that is...
general - https://pastebin.com/uCUtJS6h
dhcp - https://pastebin.com/ZenrdC5Y
dnsresolver - https://pastebin.com/MaVHpXYzSorry for all the delays, it's very difficult to make these pastes with poor internet. fwiw accessing things in my LAN is very fast. Also, as I'm loading these logs into Pastebin. I can get, say, 2 in and uploaded but then it'll freeze up and say that pastebin can't be reached for a few minutes. Then a few minutes later it'll work fine....for a few minutes.
@JonathanLee said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
this sounds like a broadcast storm
Does the above still sound like a broadcast storm? I've never heard of this term...will be googling now but if there are any other logs I can post to confirm this I would be happy to provide...
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@RickyBaker said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
fwiw accessing things in my LAN is very fast
So basically what you are saying is that it's all wifi related? I so, that is where I would focus... Check you channel allocation across that AP's as discussed.
@RickyBaker said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
so you're suggesting reverting the KEA change? and using the old method? (Just clarifying)
Yes that is what I was suggesting. Not sure though, if it's all wifi related, but reverting to ISC won't hurt during your testing...
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@RickyBaker said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
Well i found something def not good while trouble shooting something unrelated...
@stephenw10 said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
There were quite a few link state changes in the logs and I wouldn't expect to see any in normal running between pfSense and a switch.
Yes most managed switches have some ability to detect bad traffic (a loop, packet storm/flood) and disconnect a port to prevent it. So potentially it might be doing that but it should log it if so.
Imo this is the cause of your problems
To fix it you probably need to draw a network structure diagramYou have a VPN. How is that segmented on your network?
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@Gblenn said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
So basically what you are saying is that it's all wifi related? I so, that is where I would focus... Check you channel allocation across that AP's as discussed.
I don't think it's WiFi related. It happens on my hard wired PC as well... however that thing is ancient but it's my only one. I might plug in a laptop and hunker next to the rack for a half hour or so and double check that it's also present in wired connections. But I'm able to pull up, say, the UI for the pfsense or the unraid dockers without the delays and stream netflix. I don't know that much about networking but it almost seems specific to certain types of traffic like translating webpages. My IoT devices get kicked off every now and then but mostly work and I've never experienced a time i can remember when i couldn't stream Netflix for example...
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@RickyBaker
You have a loop in your network. We don't have enough information whether that's the symptom or the cause. As suggested, you need to deconstruct your network and figure out what is in place. Do you have an unmanaged switch in the mix - in your case a non Unifi switch. Ive seen cases where a cable was plugged into one switch port and the other end plugged into the same switch but different port (why? who knows...). Kea has nothing to do with Layer2 loops. Neither does Unbound.
In either case, the network is protecting itself. -
@Patch said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
You have a VPN. How is that segmented on your network?
Does this have the information you were asking about?
@michmoor said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
You have a loop in your network
yeah it really feels like this is right...
@michmoor said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
Do you have an unmanaged switch in the mix - in your case a non Unifi switch.
no, all unifi switches. 1 is daisy chained but it's unifi and i see it in the controller software. There are no more STP blocked ports since I unplugged that last AP and I still have no idea how that happened (the statically assigned IP seems find in the DHCP server but I haven't tried to plug it back in yet)...
Is there any way to track this down with Wireshark? I would imagine the broadcast storm mentioned earlier is easier to troubleshoot with wireshark but while it's running I was curious if something would help me track down this loop....
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@RickyBaker said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
There are no more STP blocked ports since I unplugged that last AP and I still have no idea how that happened (the statically assigned IP seems find in the DHCP server but I haven't tried to plug it back in yet)...
Are we still having the issue with the network when your parents come over after that change?
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@michmoor my parents left a long time ago so I haven't been testing with their devices. But yes the network is still bad.
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I believe you have two different issues. The most obvious as has been stated is a Layer 2 loop. You have something miswired/misrouted.
The problem with your parents' device is I belive a duplicate IP address. Could they maybe have had a statically assigned IP address in one of their devices that matched the IP address of a critical component in your local network such as perhaps one of the firewall interfaces? The symptoms you described at that time (way back up earlier in this thread) sure sounded like a duplicate IP address problem.
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Not sure what this means but I was just poking around pfsense and saw that the ipv6 Configuration type was set to Track Interface. Seeing as this was an issue when i was having a DNSResolver issue and that i'm not using ipv6 (intentionally at least) I turned it to none but got 2 errors about disabling DHCPv6 Server and Router Advertisement first. I really don't know what the second thing is or what disabling it will break but i'm desparate so I'm giving "None" a try....
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@RickyBaker said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
got 2 errors about disabling DHCPv6 Server and Router Advertisement first. I really don't know what the second thing is or what disabling it will break
If you have no IPv6 available from your ISP and you have not configured your WAN to use it, then it won't break anything. You can go to SERVICES > ROUTER ADVERISEMENT and set the RA daemon to "disabled" on all interfaces. Why did you turn this on in the first place?
If you are just browsing around in pfSense and randomly clicking stuff without knowing what it specifically does, then no wonder you are having issues
. You might benefit from a completely fresh green-field reinstall WITHOUT importing any old configuration. -
@bmeeks said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
You have something miswired/misrouted.
I agree, just having a hard time tracking this down...
@bmeeks said in Network becomes totally unusable when my parents connect:
The problem with your parents' device is I belive a duplicate IP address. Could they maybe have had a statically assigned IP address in one of their devices that matched the IP address of a critical component in your local network such as perhaps one of the firewall interfaces?
I also can get behind this theory as well, especially the second part of it.
All their devices were configured to get an IP from the DHCP server (though were also originally configured to randomize the mac address, which i changed). Also I use 10.10.10.1/24 and there is no way they have a statically assigned address in that range. If i was using 192.168.1.1/24 sure i could believe it but just very unlikely anything is statically assigned to the 10.10.10.1 range. Though maybe it has something to do with their devices barfing at that subnet....
