Watchguard XTM 5 Series

PFseb

This week I received my Watchguard 520 XTM, and already installed the 64bit nano. No problems so far.
However I am having 2 questions:

Question 1:
I would like to update the BIOS, however I have 2 options, the BIOS from the following site:
https://sites.google.com/site/pfsensefirebox/home
(from Stephen)
or from Watchguard, why or what are the reasons to choose. I noticed the original one I use now is "read-only".
Furthermore HOW do I upgrade the bios with the original watchguard. I already upgraded watchguard to latest version on the original CF, but the BIOS did not noticeably change…
(I have read already how to do it when using the "Stephen" BIOS, so my question on HOW only relates to Watchguard original BIOS)

Question 2:
Installed Nano 64bit and installed the fan control software, but I was quite disappointed by the result, still if I put it on my attic it is like an airplane flying over. So for now it is waiting on new fans.
Anyone tried so far. Havent read anyone doing it (changing the 3 system fans), for now I am not (yet) touching the PSU fan.
Keep you posted to show my progress once I get my fans.

chpalmer

@PFseb:

Question 1:
I would like to update the BIOS, however I have 2 options, the BIOS from the following site:
https://sites.google.com/site/pfsensefirebox/home
(from Stephen)
or from Watchguard, why or what are the reasons to choose. I noticed the original one I use now is "read-only".
Furthermore HOW do I upgrade the bios with the original watchguard. I already upgraded watchguard to latest version on the original CF, but the BIOS did not noticeably change…
(I have read already how to do it when using the "Stephen" BIOS, so my question on HOW only relates to Watchguard original BIOS)

Question 2:
Installed Nano 64bit and installed the fan control software, but I was quite disappointed by the result, still if I put it on my attic it is like an airplane flying over. So for now it is waiting on new fans.
Anyone tried so far. Havent read anyone doing it (changing the 3 system fans), for now I am not (yet) touching the PSU fan.
Keep you posted to show my progress once I get my fans.

Answer 1 you pretty much already know. Because it is read only. And there are a few more options in Steve's version.

Answer 2 also can be solved with the custom BIOS.. I don't believe the WGX software has any control over the fans in the XTM series. But mine controlled by the BIOS which by the way adjusts to CPU temp, is quiet as a mouse.

chpalmer

@Scorch95:

So I'm not sure if the arrow keys on my xtm are working correctly. Currently I cycle through the screens with the down and left arrows. Is this normal? What is each arrow suppose to do? Also since loading pfsense I am unable to see the cpu temp. I know it did at one point, is there a way to add this back in?

Im using 2.3 in my boxes and LCDproc is not available yet. So I can't play with the buttons to say myself. Never really did before with 2.2.x series either.

PFseb

@chpalmer:

@PFseb:

Question 1:
I would like to update the BIOS, however I have 2 options, the BIOS from the following site:
https://sites.google.com/site/pfsensefirebox/home
(from Stephen)
or from Watchguard, why or what are the reasons to choose. I noticed the original one I use now is "read-only".
Furthermore HOW do I upgrade the bios with the original watchguard. I already upgraded watchguard to latest version on the original CF, but the BIOS did not noticeably change…
(I have read already how to do it when using the "Stephen" BIOS, so my question on HOW only relates to Watchguard original BIOS)

Question 2:
Installed Nano 64bit and installed the fan control software, but I was quite disappointed by the result, still if I put it on my attic it is like an airplane flying over. So for now it is waiting on new fans.
Anyone tried so far. Havent read anyone doing it (changing the 3 system fans), for now I am not (yet) touching the PSU fan.
Keep you posted to show my progress once I get my fans.

Answer 1 you pretty much already know. Because it is read only. And there are a few more options in Steve's version.

Answer 2 also can be solved with the custom BIOS.. I don't believe the WGX software has any control over the fans in the XTM series. But mine controlled by the BIOS which by the way adjusts to CPU temp, is quiet as a mouse.

Thanks, was not aware that recent BIOS from Watchguard are still readonly published. I will try this afternoon, if it works I will deff cancel my 3 fan order :).

chpalmer

@PFseb:

Thanks, was not aware that recent BIOS from Watchguard are still readonly published. I will try this afternoon, if it works I will deff cancel my 3 fan order :) .

If they have a newer BIOS available Im betting someone around here would love to get a copy. ;D

Yep- my recently retired (after less than a year and a half in service) XTM boxes are read only as well.

PFseb

Quick question, in the flashed bios, y default the setting is thermal control.
While on thermal control using WGXepc the fans still are like a hurricane.
~~Do I need to change this setting, can remember it was stated that they should be on "full speed".~~ (Btw all settings in the BIOS are now editable, I had to clear the BIOS before I could enter. Any recommendations on default values or default is good?)

Other ideas, since full speed is not the way to go…

chpalmer

@PFseb:

Quick question, in the flashed bios, y default the setting is thermal control.
While on thermal control using WGXepc the fans still are like a hurricane.
~~Do I need to change this setting, can remember it was stated that they should be on "full speed".~~ (Btw all settings in the BIOS are now editable, I had to clear the BIOS before I could enter. Any recommendations on default values or default is good?)

Other ideas, since full speed is not the way to go…

Take any commands to control the fans away from WGXepc. Not needed.


CPUFAN Mode Setting            [Thermal Mode      ]**                        *
*   CPUFAN TargetTemp Value      [065]               **                        *
* SYSFAN Mode Setting            [Thermal Mode      ]**                        *
*   SYSFAN TargetTemp Value      [050]               **                        *

Mine was set for 070 and 055. I dropped them back 5 degrees each and may go even further if the weather gets to warm. My firewall is quieter than the switch fan mounted in the same rack. :)

DeLorean

The Watchguard XTM 5 series uses an automatic Fan speed control.
So manual lowering the fan speed is not needed.

Grtz
DeLorean

chpalmer

@DeLorean:

The Watchguard XTM 5 series uses an automatic Fan speed control.
So manual lowering the fan speed is not needed.

Grtz
DeLorean

Yep! "Mine was set for 070 and 055" those are the temps in Celsius that the box will adjust to.

PFseb

@chpalmer:

@PFseb:

Quick question, in the flashed bios, y default the setting is thermal control.
While on thermal control using WGXepc the fans still are like a hurricane.
~~Do I need to change this setting, can remember it was stated that they should be on "full speed".~~ (Btw all settings in the BIOS are now editable, I had to clear the BIOS before I could enter. Any recommendations on default values or default is good?)

Other ideas, since full speed is not the way to go…

Take any commands to control the fans away from WGXepc. Not needed.
CPUFAN Mode Setting            [Thermal Mode      ]**                        *
*   CPUFAN TargetTemp Value      [065]               **                        *
* SYSFAN Mode Setting            [Thermal Mode      ]**                        *
*   SYSFAN TargetTemp Value      [050]               **                        *
Mine was set for 070 and 055. I dropped them back 5 degrees each and may go even further if the weather gets to warm. My firewall is quieter than the switch fan mounted in the same rack. :)

Will try tomorrow, but quieter than other stuff in your rack :o :o :o
I have a switch from HP, modified with an 160mm fan, its like a mouse (so quiet).
Have a MD1000 from Dell which is standard a hurricane, modified with 4 noctua fans, the discs now make more noise.
Have a Dell R710, busy with converting with new fans etc (and home designed noise control -> PCB and programmed IC) -> discs are bnoisier and the cpu is idle 40degrees -> Xeon

So may be you definition of quiet is against stock rack equipment :D???

But as said I will test tomorrow, at the moment I only notice that the case fan is "Off" and the CPU fans are still at the RPM set by the BIOS, the WGXepg is not doing anything? (based on the command with the additional commands)

chpalmer

@PFseb:

Will try tomorrow, but quieter than other stuff in your rack :o :o :o
So may be you definition of quiet is against stock rack equipment :D ???

the WGXepg is not doing anything? (based on the command with the additional commands)

I have a Dlink DGS-1024D that is not the quietest switch in the world. Im going to replace it soon as it is a few years old and just too noisy.

WGXepc will do nothing for your fan speeds on an XTM box.

PFseb

Well I will make the modifications later this week (i hope to get the fans by tomorrow) and will post the results here (if someone else wants to modify).
My experience is that a low noise 40mm is capable of running these boxes at an acceptable temp.

Reasons for the fans used by manufacturers, is probably the MTBF and the high flow throughput (jet engine).
I.m.h.o. these procs are allowed to become 70 degrees when stressed and I think this box will never reach that with the new fans. Keep you posted.

Btw 1: what will be the purpose of WGXepc on a XTM box (if it does not regulate the fan speed)?
Btw 2: why did you take the XTM out of commission?

chpalmer

@PFseb:

Well I will make the modifications later this week (i hope to get the fans by tomorrow) and will post the results here (if someone else wants to modify).
My experience is that a low noise 40mm is capable of running these boxes at an acceptable temp.

Reasons for the fans used by manufacturers, is probably the MTBF and the high flow throughput (jet engine).
I.m.h.o. these procs are allowed to become 70 degrees when stressed and I think this box will never reach that with the new fans. Keep you posted.

Btw 1: what will be the purpose of WGXepc on a XTM box (if it does not regulate the fan speed)?
Btw 2: why did you take the XTM out of commission?

1. WGXepc is still used to control the "Armed" light on the front of the box.

2. I didn't. My first XTM5 series box is running my primary business location with 4 different subnets and multiple OpenVPN connections coming into it. Its got a quad core proc and 4GB ram in it now. It actually replaced an X-core E box that ran here for about 4 years and now does residential service for a clients house. I donated it to get them back online after an issue with their service.

Ive just picked up two more XTM's and have set them up and distributed them among friends.

PFseb

Been reading and scanning through this thread, but haven't found a lead concerning modification of the existing PSU.
I have seen some notices concerning installing a PicoPsu, however this is feasible, it is quite expensive (a kit costs you 75 euro in Europe -> 150W is the only one with a 4-pole ATX).

So in parallel to modifying the case & CPU fans I need to do something about the power fan.
Any experience, otherwise I will post (hopefully) this afternoon my complete mod. I have to say new fans is really a very very very big improvement.

chpalmer

@PFseb:

So in parallel to modifying the case & CPU fans I need to do something about the power fan.
Any experience, otherwise I will post (hopefully) this afternoon my complete mod. I have to say new fans is really a very very very big improvement.

Im looking into this for mine right now. I want to run more off the battery bank direct than just powering a UPS.

http://www.powerstream.com/DC-PC-12V-300I.htm Just the cost has got me reconsidering. :o

PFseb

Why? That is a use PSU for a low demanding environment, you will be better of with the PicoPSU, which is half the costs.
But I think it will be even easier to just modify the current sPSU with a resistor on the FAN V+

Furthermore, the downside of the PicoPSU is that it leaves a hole on the back of the unit, so you need to "invent" something there. And besides I have no idea what will be the "benefit" of running a Pico versus electrical costs versus investment.

PFseb

Had been busy with this is parallel to my normal work (I did not have so much time, because I had hoped to have it finished).

However, my preliminary findings (pictures will come when I find the optimal solution):

Replacement of case & CPU fan is a huge success, this eliminates a lot of noise (understatement);
PSU fan can be modified, but it is in general noisy, currently thinking to go PicoPSU, currently investigating the options -> modifying PSU fan is not wortth the hassle in time (to investigate & find -> low noise replacements do not exist)

What PSU power would be correct, the one currenly build in is overpowered:

CPU=35W (Celeron
3 Fans = 0.48W*3=1.5W
Mobo = 25-40W
Mem=2~5W (orginal XTM 520 mem)
Enclosure = 5~10W (estimate)
Additional HD = 3W

This mean a total of 94.5W when all components are working at max performance.
From PicoPSU the following kits can be used (net yet tested myself):

picoPSU-160-XT + 192W Adapter Power Kit
picoPSU-150-XT + 150W Adapter Power Kit
picoPSU-150-XT + 102W Adapter Power Kit
picoPSU-120 + 102W Adapter Power Kit (not recommended because you need an additional cable to convert a molex to a 4 PIN ATX)

Update 5-4-2016:
I got my hands on a picoPSU-150-XT + 102W Adapter Power Kit for 50 euro, which is quite a OK deal in Europe. Tested it yesterday and the box is super duper quiet. However when you have the box in thermal mode once in a while the fans spin up, which is not preferable. Better it is to have the fans by default spin a little faster than they do in thermal mode, in general the CPU will be cooled better and will never reach the BIOS threshold. Currenlty thinking of a way how to adjust.
(Probably by putting the fans in super fast mode in BIOS and adjust the speed with a resistor)
I hope to test this afternoon.

Now I will see where I can get my hands on, to test this in my Firebox.

uknownme123

Upgraded to version 2.3 with an ouch.

"Package LCDproc-dev does not exist in current pfSense version and it has been removed. @ 2016-04-13 01:36:28"

Will be lurking and snooping around, will post possible fix. Unless someone already found it.

Looking at packages, no LCDproc nor LCDproc-dev available for 2.3 yet.

uknownme123

Looks like manual install lcdproc here:

https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=44034.525

Looking at the hits on this thread, we should add LCDproc and LCDproc-dev as packages soon.

PFseb

Just a quick question because I could not yet find it so far. But can I use the ports of the XTM 520 to do a switch function?
It has 6 Gbit ports, 1 is for external (WAN), the others I would like to use for the same internal network (this removes an additional switch)
(Where or how can I do this?)

Found it: https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=48947.msg269592#msg269592
(Missed it the first time)