Hardware advice: low-power home use
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Hi all,
I've been looking into PFSense for a couple months, and needing some hardware advice. I've been doing a lot of reading, on this board and elsewhere, but as yet haven't been able to make any hardware decisions.
Use case:
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Home use. I plan on handling wireless through a Ubiquiti AP; rarely exceed 10 wireless clients simultaneously, most often 2-4. Currently I have 2-3 wired clients, but want to allow room for growth.
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VPN - usually only one user at a time.
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Current internet connection is 20/1, expect to increase to 50/5 soonish. I understand that any reasonably recent hardware should be able to handle this, but again, would like to allow room for growth, particularly on the uplink side with VPN.
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Packages:
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VPN, as mentioned (required)
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Privoxy (required)
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Squid (optional)
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Snort (optional; never used this before, but something I would like to experiment with)
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?? – again, some room for growth would be nice. Don't want to find that I need new hardware if I end up needing/wanting some additional functionality.
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Since I'm buying new equipment, I would like to stick to GigE
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Network topology is undecided at this point, depends in part on what hardware I choose for the PFSense box.
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Currently, ISP -> Modem -> Router -> Clients. All clients connect to the router
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I would be okay with solutions where all clients connect to wireless AP or PFSense box directly, or use a switch behind the PFSense box.
My first inclination was the APU1C. I know some folks with the older ALIX and they are generally happy with it. I like that it is small, fanless, and low-power (supposedly 6-12 W). Downsides are that there are only 3 LAN ports (meaning I will need a switch), no HWRNG and AES-NI, and I'm unsure how it will handle Snort or other packages I may decide to add. I also have some concerns about the thermal management.
I've also been looking at the Intel NUC a bit, or Atom options. Generally more expensive, but generally more powerful and often significantly so, and would allow some expansion for LAN connections – may avoid needing a switch. But I don't know if I believe some of the power consumption figures I've seen (in the sub 15 W range, they do come with 60-65 W power bricks after all), have fans, and sometimes things I don't need (like wireless).
I don't require a fanless option, but it will be in a living room so the quieter the better, and I like the idea of there being fewer things that can break mechanically.
So, does anyone have any suggestions/advice, or are in a similar boat as me? I'm open to new suggestions as well. But keep in mind, in my current situation, this will be in a living room - acoustics are a concern, and no racks to mount on. Let me know if any more information is needed.
Thanks!
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Greetings,
First time poster, long time lurker… Im in a similar situation with my home network. My old p4 laptop is begining to show its age with misc hardware issues and Ive been searching to replace it.. The most interesting ive come across here on the forum is the cheap cheap fanless chinabox that has popped up a few times.. (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2014-NEW-Intel-Celeron-C1037U-aluminum-fanless-dual-core-living-room-HTPC-4G-RAM-32GB-SSD/1874152277.html)
Its fanless (+)
Its cheap (+)
Its has dual lan GigE (+)
They are realtek (-)
It has 4GB ram, 32GB SSD (+) (customizable)
It has wifi (+) (Customizable)
Not sure if wifi card supports hostap (-)
Super low power consumption (+)
From China (---)It seems like a win win until you have to deal with ordering from overseas which some people seem to have an issue with.. If you are adventurous, I'd say its worth a shot.. It should have enough available horsepower to run everything you need at the speeds you are likely to use. I for one think that the overseas purchase can be overlooked if performance and quality aren't sacrificed too badly..
James
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I'm also thinging about to have it, and trying to find who can bring one for me from China. I'm curiously is there any agent for North American?
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What kind of budget are you looking at?
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aliexpress will ship to wherever you are.. usually about 35bux.
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Wow I shop at aliexpress all the time, but never knew how to find something like that, thanks!
Unfortunately I want to include dual WAN in my pfsense setup and that would not work for me because it is not NIC upgradeable.
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Greetings,
First time poster, long time lurker… Im in a similar situation with my home network. My old p4 laptop is begining to show its age with misc hardware issues and Ive been searching to replace it.. The most interesting ive come across here on the forum is the cheap cheap fanless chinabox that has popped up a few times.. (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2014-NEW-Intel-Celeron-C1037U-aluminum-fanless-dual-core-living-room-HTPC-4G-RAM-32GB-SSD/1874152277.html)
Its fanless (+)
Its cheap (+)
Its has dual lan GigE (+)
They are realtek (-)
It has 4GB ram, 32GB SSD (+) (customizable)
It has wifi (+) (Customizable)
Not sure if wifi card supports hostap (-)
Super low power consumption (+)
From China (---)It seems like a win win until you have to deal with ordering from overseas which some people seem to have an issue with.. If you are adventurous, I'd say its worth a shot.. It should have enough available horsepower to run everything you need at the speeds you are likely to use. I for one think that the overseas purchase can be overlooked if performance and quality aren't sacrificed too badly..
James
I'm in the same boat. Thanks for posting this.
My old dell is using about 60W and generates heat. Did anyone tried to install pfSense on this type? It would really suck if I wouldn't be able to install.
other option I was looking at was one of what it seems like supported ones http://store.netgate.com/kit-APU1C.aspx
But I'm afraid that when I get 105/20 internet it won't be able to handle that due to 100MBit ports -
Shuttle DS437 Fanless Slim PC Barebone With Inbuilt Intel Celeron Processor 1037U
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101152If you want New, and plenty of power to run power hungry packages for your home network….. This is about the best deal your going to find for a dual Nic Pfsense Box.
Warranty Included 8)
Keep in mind though, you don't have to have a dual Nic interfaces to run a Pfsense firewall.
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Shuttle DS437 Fanless Slim PC Barebone With Inbuilt Intel Celeron Processor 1037U
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101152
If you want New, and plenty of power to run power hungry packages for your home network….. This is about the best deal your going to find for a dual Nic Pfsense Box.
Warranty Included 8)
Keep in mind though, you don't have to have a dual Nic interfaces to run a Pfsense firewall.
I like the fact that memory is expandable and total of 3 PCIe 2.0 slots.
It sucks that it uses 60W power supply. Power consumption will be around that mark if power hungry packages are installed.
I tired to search the forums but nothing came up. Just wanted to see if others had any luck with it. -
Shuttle DS47 running pfsense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo4-xUMP6y4Shuttle DS437 is a hardware update basically…. From what I understand Pfsense 2.2 has support for the Realtek 8111G which is on-board the DS437.
The Shuttle DS47 I believe the guy had to compile a driver for the on-board nics.
Maybe someone here in the forum which know more about the Shuttles can help inform you more about the details of the install.
As for power consumption I would not think it would be over 17 - 18 watts at full load...
A 60 watt power supply would have about a 25% to 30% load on the power supply which sounds appropriate for 24/7 operation.
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Thanks a lot Clear-pixel, this is exactly what I was looking for to build my pfsense box!
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The hardware in my sig handles all that you require easily (and some more: radius, traffic shaping, dual WAN failover, etc). So something similar (my board is no longer for sale it seems) might be useful to you as well :D
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Why is that on newegg pictures of Shuttle DS437 I can't see dual gigabit ports? but gigabit its listed under specs?
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Why is that on newegg pictures of Shuttle DS437 I can't see dual gigabit ports? but gigabit its listed under specs?
If it's gigabit or not I can't tell from the pictures but there's definately (although dark) picture of the side with dual RJ45s if you click further to look on all of them. For confirmation, try this page instead.
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Alright guys you finally convinced me :D
Just ordered from Best Buy Marketplace http://www.bestbuy.com/site/shuttle-digital-signage-appliance/1311090179.p?id=mp1311090179&skuId=1311090179&st=DS437&cp=1&lp=2#overview-tab for $209.32 w/ free shipping. I have their card so I choose 6-Month Financing - No interest.
Will post back if I get it to work.Edit: Finally got Shuttle DS437. Nics were not recognized so I had to install 2.2-ALPHA and everything works with 16W power consumption.
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Just realized that it does not come with HD or memory :o
With pfSense it does not make sense to buy SSD HD because everything is handled in memory, correct?
Will 2GB of memory be enough or I should go for 4GB? -
other option I was looking at was one of what it seems like supported ones http://store.netgate.com/kit-APU1C.aspx
But I'm afraid that when I get 105/20 internet it won't be able to handle that due to 100MBit portsThe APU has Gigabit Ethernet (Realtek RTL8111E) ports. You might be thinking about it's predecessor, the ALIX board.
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other option I was looking at was one of what it seems like supported ones http://store.netgate.com/kit-APU1C.aspx
But I'm afraid that when I get 105/20 internet it won't be able to handle that due to 100MBit portsThe APU has Gigabit Ethernet (Realtek RTL8111E) ports. You might be thinking about it's predecessor, the ALIX board.
Thanks for the reply but I ordered Shuttle DS437.
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My local computer shop has something interesting.. I might forego the chinabox and setup a machine based off this lil gem.. It will end up being more expensive, but its local..
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX51909 (GA-C1037UN w/ Celeron 1037U, DDR3 1600, 7.1 Audio, Dual Gb LAN 99.99)
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My local computer shop has something interesting.. I might forego the chinabox and setup a machine based off this lil gem.. It will end up being more expensive, but its local..
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX51909 (GA-C1037UN w/ Celeron 1037U, DDR3 1600, 7.1 Audio, Dual Gb LAN 99.99)
Looks interesting. Could not find anything as far as numbers for power consumption.
My DS437 will also end up being little more then what I wanted to spend but it will have less heat, noise and power consumption then my current Dell machine.
Just need some advice on Hard Drive and Memory. -
Love the machine, I was just worried about the Realtek. I'm sure they will be awesome though.
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Anyone knows Atom C2358 appliance with a fanless configuration?
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If you have lots and lots of connections/states I would recommend against Realtek –- I've been having problems with what I thought would be an awesome Mini-ITX Atom setup that I got for a steal ($75) with these specs:
Atom C330 Dual-Core 1.6GHz (w/ HT)
2GB DDR2
Jetway motherboard
1x PCI-E Gigabit Realtek (RealTek 8168/8111 B/C/CP/D/DP/E/F PCIe Gigabit Ethernet)
3x Gigabit Realtek provided by daughter board (RealTek 8169SC/8110SC Single-chip Gigabit Ethernet)First problem is, those 3x Gigabit Realtek are all PCI as I've since learned –- so at best, you're not going above 2Gbit/s total from those 3.
Second problem is how crappy Realtek drivers are on BSD: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?order=Importance&query_format=advanced&resolution=–-&short_desc=realtek&short_desc_type=substring
I personally encountered this sort of bug with those "Single-chip" PCI ports: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=166894
Of course this is all personal experience, but looking on the FreeBSD forums, the previous maintainer of the realtek drivers --- yongari --- talked about how crappy they were, until he disappeared.
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Never buy untested hardware unless you want to be the tester and are prepared for problems.
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I have built pfSense 2.1.5 x64 and running very smoothly on a 3rd Gen Intel I5-2400 on a Asus mATX board 1 onboard and two Intel PCI-e slotted NICs at 31 watts. Looking for some more electricity savings and box sizing for my clients.
Dec 14, - inplace upgrade to 2.2 rc x64 and things went south fast - lost squid, squidGuard, ServiceWatchDog, ipguard, SARG, firewall log reporting.
Every 25 watt savings yields 219 kilowatts/year - or $164 over 5 years at $0.15/kwh
Low power 2 nics onboard and wifi (options) are: (listed in lowest power consumption first)
1a. $187 - Jetway NU93-2930 - 101mm squared "NUC" aka "Mini-ITX" aka "Book Size" on Amazon?? Quad Core 4/4 1.82-2.16Ghz - Intel ARK http://ark.intel.com/products/81073/Intel-Celeron-Processor-N2930-2M-Cache-up-to-2_16-GHz?wapkw=n2930. Interesting "Shared mPCI-e" port that may be allowed for a mPCI-e GigE card/piggy-tail RJ45 since these cards appears to be full size and will not fit into the 1/2 mPCI-e slots.
NIC chipset is Intel WG82574L1b - 1a above that is put fully together in a NUC 1.5 case as Jetway JBC375F3AW-2930-B - $255 likely watts are 4.5 plus Wifi SSD = 6-7 watts. Also a pure "NUC" case barebone is Jetway JBC311U93W-2930-B - $220 - includes wifi 802.11n/BT
2. The J1900 Intel Family upgraded CPU base freq at 2.0 burst to 2.4 - $90 - GA-J1900N-D3V - BIOS boot battles - I get that on about all boards though! - RTL8111G NICs - only 1/2 mPCI-e slot for wifi, can add a third LAN with slotted nic in PCI slot - 66MHZ bandwidth tops!! Dont try a dual headed NIC. Appears to run a bit warm at 52 degrees Celsius - 13 watts
3. The J1900 Intel Family - $180 - Supermicro X10SBA - smoother BIOS/config boots, upgraded 1xPCI-e (x2) full slot that could take a dual headed GigE - onboard Intel I210 chip GigE nics - upgraded 4x SATA3 internal headers (say NAS). Added full size mSATA slot for a SSD boot chip. is it worth the extra $90? Intel chip premium 30 bucks granted, full size mSATA slot maybe $10, PCI-e x2 full slot definetly make the delta even at $90. SuperMicro name and reputation - icing on the cake!
Onboard 4 GigE Nics and horsepower for above 500mb/s throughput with more than 10 users.
4. The Intel Avoton / Rangeley family - double the cores and double the smart Cache same cpu speed as J1900. Server class ECC memory. Double to triple the price. Quad GigE LANs plus iPMI management port make up the $ difference. RAM capacities go up 4-8 times. Super value in the Enterprise class with client counts in above 75 range and inter LAN routing in the above 500Mb/sec range. Likely burn at 21-23 watts.
SuperMicro A1SRi-2758 - $333
SuprMicro A1SAi-2750F-O - $375 -
Gigabyte GA-9SISL - $449
ASRock only 2 GigE lans tons of SATA3 (say NAS) - C2750D4 - $380Onboard Greater than 4:
5. SuperMicro A1SRM-LN7F-2758 - 7 Onboard Intel flavored GigE RJ45 nics + iPMI - Rangeley C2758 - $436 Amazon Yes - Will be in great demand!!
Another Attempt at home in the quest - Gigabyte GA-H97N-WIFI - no go - LAN2 onboard is Atheros 8161 Wifi is Intel Wireless-AC 7260 and both appear as dead nics for FreeBSD!! pfSense 2.2 RC x64 crashed big time after addition of only pfBlocker, CPU-G3258, single 8GB DDR3 ram.
