Any MiniITX motherboard with C2718, C2518, C2508, C2358, C2308 CPU?



  • Guys, I see how successful the new Atom CPUs are, especially C2758 and C2558, they support QuickAssist and AES-NI, both very important features impacting heavily the performance of pfSense. These two are most popular in the ITX motherboards by SuperMicro.

    I don't see though where are their sisters C2718, C2518, C2508, C2358, C2308. These also support QuickAssist and AES-NI. SuperMicro doesn't seem to have have ITX motherboards with these CPUs. I didn't see at others either (like Gigabyte, Asrock, etc.)

    C2758 and C2558 are quite expensive in SuperMicros, and there are places where they would be overkill. Their smaller models would suffice in similar MiniITX, but where are they? ???



  • C2XXX is the Intel SOC family, some Board Manufacturer simply do not offer (build) several MB-SOC combination, due to commercial / market reason. They limit the combination to those that their reference market can easily absorb.



  • I'm aware of all that.

    I just wonder if anyone has seen motherboards from other manufacturers equipped with C2718, C2518, C2508, C2358, C2308 CPUs.





  • I don't see them for sale anywhere…



  • rebranded (exclusive?) by Netgate, and also available in pfSense store as pfSense appliance…  ;)



  • Unfortunately shipping costs of Netgate to Europe makes their products way too expensive for us.



  • @robi:

    I don't see them for sale anywhere…

    The 2508 one: http://store.netgate.com/ADI/RCC-DFF-KIT.aspx ….I think you can grab the 2358 http://store.netgate.com/ADI/RCC-VE-2440.aspx



  • As I worte earlier, that's too expensive. $349 + $64 shipping = $413. And there's customs tax to be paid about $100, and I've got no warranty (in theory there is warranty, but in practice it's not really fesible due to high shipping costs and customs taxes)

    I can get the original SuperMicro A1SRI-2558F board for about $369 here with local warranty, and I can get a quality case with gold PSU for about $45, add 4GB of ECC ram for about $50. And I can reimburse about 27% local VAT tax later out of this if I buy it as a company.

    I don't need the power of C2558, I'd be fine with C2358 or even C2308, but I'd expect to pay less for it.

    I was thinking about manufacturers like Asus, GigaByte, Asrock, MSI, Jetway - they all manufacture Mini-ITX motherboards, but I can'T seem to find any C2000 series CPU in any of their supply… not even in China.



  • get the supermicro 2758 for pfsense if your budget allows



  • Ok let's look at the question differently:

    Is there any less expensive motherboard with any SOC supporting QuickAssist and AES-NI? What's the less expensive model these days?



  • Asrock has the C2750 & C2550:

    http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2550D4I

    http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2750D4I

    unfortunately they don't have quickassist, only aes-ni.

    you might want to check this link, there're a couple of supermicro mainboards with the Intel Atom C2358 & Intel Atom C2558 & Intel Atom C2758.



  • If you have the budget you absolutely cannot go wrong with the Supermicro A1SRI-2758F. Just keep in mind that it takes ECC memory.



  • QuickAssist is quite new, and only Rangeley CPUs are offering this, I'm not sure how many software will support this.
    AES-NI is only helping AES encryption but frankly speaking I guess most people use AES only for OpenVPN? So there should be benefit from it.

    Anyway, I just got my Asrock C2550D4i a week before, but planning to use it on storage (data encryption, but I can still get performance boost by 50% with AES-NI)

    @hedsht:

    Asrock has the C2750 & C2550:

    http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2550D4I

    http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2750D4I

    unfortunately they don't have quickassist, only aes-ni.

    you might want to check this link, there're a couple of supermicro mainboards with the Intel Atom C2358 & Intel Atom C2558 & Intel Atom C2758.



  • Given how fast AES is in pure software mode and how secure it is there is really no reason to use any other type of encryption unless you have a client device that is just terrible and doesn't support AES.

    Most people that I work with just don't realize that AES is not only more secure than 3DES but it is also much much faster. In fact AES is generally faster than every other non terrible block cipher out there and offers either more or a reasonably equivalent level of security.



  • @robi:

    Ok let's look at the question differently:

    Is there any less expensive motherboard with any SOC supporting QuickAssist and AES-NI? What's the less expensive model these days?

    If you drop the QuickAssist requirement.

    http://www.shuttle.eu/products/slim/ds57u/specification/

    AES-NI, low power, rated for 24/7 use, passive, dual Intel NIC's.
    Should be slightly more powerful then a dual core Avaton/Rangeley.

    I have 2 in use right now. Funny title things. Stable thus far (200/10 lines, 2 IPSEC tunnels).

    You can find dual core versions on the Asian market. Just don't expect them to reach you for less then you pay for a C2558 Supermicro board in EU unless you order in bulk.



  • @antillie:

    ….
    Most people that I work with just don't realize that AES is not only more secure than 3DES but it is also much much faster. In fact AES is generally faster than every other non terrible block cipher out there and offers either more or a reasonably equivalent level of security.

    As long as you trust the NSA.



  • @kroberts:

    As long as you trust the NSA.

    Except that AES was not designed by the NSA and has been very thoroughly tested by independent cryptography researchers.



  • @foetus:

    If you drop the QuickAssist requirement.

    http://www.shuttle.eu/products/slim/ds57u/specification/

    AES-NI, low power, rated for 24/7 use, passive, dual Intel NIC's.
    Should be slightly more powerful then a dual core Avaton/Rangeley.

    I have 2 in use right now. Funny title things. Stable thus far (200/10 lines, 2 IPSEC tunnels).

    Wow. The Shuttle DS57U seems interesting. Can you please post some bandwidth tests?
    What's the max speed you can achieve NATting between the two interfaces? I'd also be interested in OpenVPN bandwidth using AES-NI.

    Edit: seems that AES-NI is not working in this Shuttle box, see: https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=89148.msg497960#msg497960



  • Hi folks,

    at the Q4/2015 Soekris is bringing out the new net6801 with the C2758 - 8 Core - 8 GB
    if you could whait until it would be a great success, because for this box also a 19" case
    will be their but simple a desktop case also and on top you are able to use the soekris
    lan1841 quad port Intel based NIC to gain a higher port density.

    Supermicro was also showing up two new boards at the CeBit that will be launched in the
    next two month as I am  right informed, the Supermicro X10SDV-TLN4F and X10SDV-F.
    Based on the Intel Xeon D-1500 CPU!

    Likes ASRock also was showing up a new board based on the same Intel Xeon D-1500
    called ASRock Rack D1540D4X.

    Lanner is offering the FW-7525 with Intel QuickAssist and based on an Intel C2358.

    What ever you wish, is not in the Alix APU class as I see it right!
    So save your money and then buy a real good appliance that will fit
    your needs and is serving what you expect from!



  • @BlueKobold:

    Hi folks,

    at the Q4/2015 Soekris is bringing out the new net6801 with the C2758 - 8 Core - 8 GB
    if you could whait until it would be a great success, because for this box also a 19" case
    will be their but simple a desktop case also and on top you are able to use the soekris
    lan1841 quad port Intel based NIC to gain a higher port density.

    Supermicro was also showing up two new boards at the CeBit that will be launched in the
    next two month as I am  right informed, the Supermicro X10SDV-TLN4F and X10SDV-F.
    Based on the Intel Xeon D-1500 CPU!

    Likes ASRock also was showing up a new board based on the same Intel Xeon D-1500
    called ASRock Rack D1540D4X.

    Lanner is offering the FW-7525 with Intel QuickAssist and based on an Intel C2358.

    What ever you wish, is not in the Alix APU class as I see it right!
    So save your money and then buy a real good appliance that will fit
    your needs and is serving what you expect from!

    Besides the D-1500 (Some review sites saying it could be selling at around US$900-1000), Supermicro already produced embedded i5/i7 mainboard, in terms of network appliance I believe they are more than enough.



  • @edwardwong

    Besides the D-1500 (Some review sites saying it could be selling at around US$900-1000),
    Supermicro already produced embedded i5/i7 mainboard, in terms of network appliance I believe
    they are more than enough.

    For sure this boards are not cheap, but there fore I was suggesting three different platforms
    so that he is able to take a look by his own over the hardware! Three groups where there as I
    see it right, but they where told by their availability!
    far away - Soekris Q4/2015
    next two month - D-1500
    now available - FW-7525

    And what he is able or willing to pay for he should better decide him selfs.

    in terms of network appliance I believe they are more than enough.

    What is enough and for how long this will be to hold? I am not the one that is provide
    for others what is enough I suggest only more than one thing and the thread opener
    should better decide this by his own mind, I prefer this way more.

    I don´t really love the Intel Core i3 or i5 CPUs, I love more the Intel Xeon E3 Series together
    with ECC RAM for a stable workflow.



  • @BlueKobold:

    @edwardwong

    Besides the D-1500 (Some review sites saying it could be selling at around US$900-1000),
    Supermicro already produced embedded i5/i7 mainboard, in terms of network appliance I believe
    they are more than enough.

    For sure this boards are not cheap, but there fore I was suggesting three different platforms
    so that he is able to take a look by his own over the hardware! Three groups where there as I
    see it right, but they where told by their availability!
    far away - Soekris Q4/2015
    next two month - D-1500
    now available - FW-7525

    And what he is able or willing to pay for he should better decide him selfs.

    in terms of network appliance I believe they are more than enough.

    What is enough and for how long this will be to hold? I am not the one that is provide
    for others what is enough I suggest only more than one thing and the thread opener
    should better decide this by his own mind, I prefer this way more.

    I don´t really love the Intel Core i3 or i5 CPUs, I love more the Intel Xeon E3 Series together
    with ECC RAM for a stable workflow.

    how much does the 7525 costs?



  • how much does the 7525 costs?

    I really don´t know this, because Lanner and also their distributors are
    not placing prices at there stores.



  • Very strange selling strategies  ???



  • @robi:

    Very strange selling strategies  ???

    For sure I also really hate it, because you are not able to compare the prices!
    I think they will do so for holding the prices stable.



  • I am amused by this thread.

    We just signed our first European distributor for pfSense.  So you should see results from that in the next 30-45 days.

    If you have a volume requirement, then we could fit those other C2K SoCs on a board for you.  (Other population options exist as well.)

    By default, RCC-DFF(v2) has a C2350 on it, so doesn't have QuickAssist, just AES-NI.  By default, all of the RCC-VE models have QuickAssist (C2xx8).

    Today, QuickAssist isn't supported on FreeBSD (and thus: pfSense).  You'll never guess which company Intel is supporting in getting this port done

    Oh ya, I've dropped hints elsewhere on the forum about the Broadwell-DE / Xeon D board we're working on.



  • @gonzopancho:

    Today, QuickAssist isn't supported on FreeBSD (and thus: pfSense).  You'll never guess which company Intel is supporting in getting this port done

    I love the idea that Intel supports Mr. Ermal to get this into FreeBSD via pfSense.
    Kind of shows the significance this project has already earned! Kudos to you guys!

    BTW, the successor of the APUs obviously won't support QA but how about AES-NI? Or is that Intel-only as well?



  • @BlueKobold:

    @robi:

    Very strange selling strategies  ???

    For sure I also really hate it, because you are not able to compare the prices!
    I think they will do so for holding the prices stable.

    I asked for a personal quote. The price they ask for the FW-7525 is almost the same as the price of an A1SRi-2558F board.  :o



  • @gonzopancho:

    I am amused by this thread.

    We just signed our first European distributor for pfSense.  So you should see results from that in the next 30-45 days.

    Well, if the price tag of them will be similar to the Lanner here in Europe, I'll be amused too.  ::)


  • Rebel Alliance Moderator

    I'd be even more happy, if pfSense Store would come available in Europe. Without the huge transport costs from the US, I'd get quite a few customers interested to buy it directly from the team instead of buying APUs via distro or from pcEngines or buy Supermicro/Lanner Devices. But as long as those numbers are off by multipliers and not just a few bucks, there's no win. So I'm very interested in the things to come with a European distributor.



  • @jahonix:

    @gonzopancho:

    Today, QuickAssist isn't supported on FreeBSD (and thus: pfSense).  You'll never guess which company Intel is supporting in getting this port done

    I love the idea that Intel supports Mr. Ermal to get this into FreeBSD via pfSense.
    Kind of shows the significance this project has already earned! Kudos to you guys!

    BTW, the successor of the APUs obviously won't support QA but how about AES-NI? Or is that Intel-only as well?

    It's more than Ermal, though yes, Ermal is doing the majority of the work.

    AES-NI is supported on some AMD CPUs.  That's why we did it first.


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