Watchguard Firebox M400/M500
-
I have read everysingle post in this thread (and few hundred in the other watchguard thread).
Based upon Sept 2021 dollars, it looks like to get into a M400 + maybe a memory/cpu upgrade at least $300. How does a pfsense/unlocked bios stock M400 compare with the netgate 3100? I only have 4-5 users in the office (plus about 4-5 cell phones connected too) I love the technical modifications of messing with the M400, but seems like the 3100 is more than enough for me.
Please talk me out of the M400 and to just buy the 3100 :) Thanks!
-
The 3100 is fanless, consumes less power, comes with warranty and is tested on extensively on every pfSense release.
What WAN speed do you have? Might that get an upgrade in the near future?
Steve
-
@stephenw10 said in Watchguard Firebox M400/M500:
What WAN speed do you have? Might that get an upgrade in the near future?
This is the big question for sure in helping to size netgate appliance - with 4-5 users and their toys (cell phones).. Prob a 2100 would be fine as well?
-
I do have 3 Voip devices too. My ISP is only 75 Mbps, my wan is 100Mbps. Sounds like 3100 is plenty. Is the 3100 locked down anywhere? Any proprietary stuff?
-
At those speeds I would look at the 2100 too. It isn't as fast as the 3100 but is arm64 (the 3100 is 32bit) and has 4GB RAM.
Both are ARM devices which means they only run Plus, you can't run CE on them.Steve
-
I am confident about formatting/bootable cf cards, storing bios/flashing bios, adding ssd drives etc.
Other than the 1-2 hours to setup the M400. What are the downsides of me going with the M400? -
@pfsense1921 said in Watchguard Firebox M400/M500:
I am confident about formatting/bootable cf cards, storing bios/flashing bios, adding ssd drives etc.
Other than the 1-2 hours to setup the M400. What are the downsides of me going with the M400?-Power consumption
-Noise
-Heat -
@pfsense1921 said in Watchguard Firebox M400/M500:
What are the downsides of me going with the M400?
Its huge compared to a 3100 or 2100 ;) Sucks way more power that is for sure - and take noisy compared to either the 3100 or 2100 which are fanless.
Since the M400 has been eol for quite some time - I doubt there is any sort of warranty, and while you can prob get pfsense to work on - are you sure there not going to be any issues? With netgate your sure it 100% works..
Nor does the m400 support netgate/pfsense in any way shape or form..
-
@johnpoz said in Watchguard Firebox M400/M500:
I doubt there is any sort of warranty
I guaranty there isn't once you've put pfSense on there.
Of course that's part of the fun.... -
Thanks everyone.
What are the benefits of going with the M400?
-
@pfsense1921 Can not think of 1 to be honest. Other than the tinker factor.. If had it laying around free - ok.. But if yoru going to spend the same amount of money as getting a new netgate appliance anyway.. I would never in a million years go that route.
-
Yeah, I didn't pay anything like that for the one I have. But I got it for fun. I enjoy poking hardware and finding out how it works.
Comparing it directly with the 3100 I guess; it's rackmount, it's potentially a lot more powerful (it's upgradable), it has SFP ports.
I personally use a 3100 as my edge device. I'll probably be swapping it out for a 6100 soon just because I can.Steve
-
@halk8888 said in Watchguard Firebox M400/M500:
-Power consumption
-Noise
-HeatMy m400 (which was a display model I got for free.. so no hours on it when I got it)-
uses less power than any other machine on my network..
is quieter than even my primary switch which has a fan..
generates less heat than any other box on my network.I like this box because-
I like the inline network interfaces and do use them all.. (I wish the Netgate 7100 had this configuration)
I have a need for the SFP slots.. (although I do wish they were SFP+)
It does full speed of my cable connection without breaking a sweat plus all my VPN's.YMMV.
:)
-
Hi all,
I have finally managed to acquire one of these as an eventual upgrade of my XTM5.
Do we have a definitive list of which processors will work correctly without the reboot hang bug?
I would like a Xeon but the ones that I have seen listed as working seem expensive still for such an old processor line.
What would be the recommended i7 or i5 processors?
-
I'm not aware of a list anywhere, pretty much everything known is in this thread.
Do you actually need something that powerful? The i3-4130 is known to work, it's cheap and it's a significant upgrade over the G1820.
Steve
-
Hi,
I could probably use the i3-4130 without problem, this one will be in use on a BT Openreach FTTC 80/20 line so hardly taxed at all. The Xeon L5420 in the XTM5 hardly ever goes above 30%
Just like to put something reasonable in and forget about it rather than upgrading things later.
-
B bingo600 referenced this topic on
-
@stephenw10 @Deathwarror @Scorch95 and everyone else with the reboot problem with an i3 CPU: I developed an open source hardware workaround for this! It's basically a microcontroller that checks the state of the power supply and one of the SFP LEDs (since those are lit when it hangs on reboot) and uses the internal power button connector to "manually" reboot the box.
All the details, sources and gerber files for the PCB are available in a post I made on my blog today and I hope it's ok to post the link here: Firebox RebooterI have a few of the boards left since I couldn't order less than 5 and I would be happy to give them away to interested people if they pay for shipping (I live in Germany so outside of EU it's probably cheaper to order the boards from a PCB fab yourself)
-
Huh that's novel! I'd prefer a software solution but that's an option at least.
Steve
-
Hello all, thanks for all this info. slight Noob here so...feel free to lecture if needed.
Happened to get an M500 and wanted to replace my aging hardware with slightly less aged hardware, but I can't seem to get FreeDOS to boot no matter what I try to get the BIOS updated.
Steps so far:
Stock M500 (literally never used) Booted up fine, console out put (115200) no issues, access CLI with default login, did a show sysinfo for giggles, then did shutdown command:
***M500 stock won't shutdown via CLI? The processes show shutting down, disk shutdown etc.., but the box just sits there and fans continue spinning (left it for 20mins). Never used Watchguard, thought I would mention it since everyone was having shutdown issues?Replaced 2x4gig RAM with 2x8gig I had lying around. Boots fine, get into watchguard CLI, show sysinfo - verify RAM numbers, all OK. (still won't shutdown via SHUTDOWN command)
4gig Compact Flash I had handy, used Rufus to flash FreeDOS. Replaced stock CF card. No output on serial (115200, 9600 etc..). 3 Beeps, fans full speed (same beeps as if no boot media installed)
Put back Original stock CF card, boots fine, serial output (115200)
Flashed PFsense USB serial image to CF card (via Rufus). No serial output, 3 beeps again. Fans full speed (intermittently wind up or down)
Flashed PFsense USB serial image to USB stick, added SSD, removed CF card completely, BOOTS OK. Install to SSD fine, reboot to PFSENSE fine. Access WEB UI for giggles - All OK. shuts down fine via CLI and web GUI.
Flashed FREEDOS to other USB sticks (3, 4g, 8g, 16g) via Rufus, added Zanthos files, no console output at all (still 3 beeps at boot). Verified USB sticks boot fine in other PC (old workbench PC Z97 mobo set to legacy BIOS boot)
Flashed FreeDOS image from FreeDOS site (Rufus again, 3sticks, 4g, 8g, 16g), repeat of previous steps. No output via console.
So I'm stumped. FYI I have two console cables, both work on everything else I try them on - Cisco, junper, Unifi gear etc... one is an OG CISCO blue cable, one came straight out of the M500 box still in plastic bag.
Going to get VGA working hopefully this weekend, maybe will show me something when I try to boot?
Any recomnendations on WTF I'm doing wrong with flashing the FreeDOS images?
Thanks again for everyone sharing work, never get any of this done without you guys!
-
You only tried the FreeDOS image from their site? There is no serial output on that by default.
Try this. If that boots you can add the required BIOS and programmer.You don't actually need to flash the BIOS though.
Steve
