eMMC Write endurance
-
@keyser said in eMMC Write endurance:
loose all logs and trend data at every reboot if you use RamDisk
I missed your question, sorry. Yes and no... on the System/Advanced/Miscellaneous page the "Periodic RAM Disk Data Backups" section covers how often that info is written to disk. Per the Netgate doc on RAM disks, "Data for both is saved during a proper shutdown or reboot, and also periodically if configured." By "both" I think it means RRD and DHCP (mentioned in the previous sentence)? Possibly /tmp and /var but I suspect it would be up to a package to copy their own files...? Not really sure, there. I just logged into a backup router to generate a system log entry, rebooted, and the log entry for my login was still there, along with a few others for Suricata and pfBlocker processes stopping.
So an unexpected power off is the main risk. Also, RAM disks should be easier on UFS drives in terms of file system corruption during power loss.
@steveits said in eMMC Write endurance:
remember to check our 3100 in a few weeks
After 14 Days 10 Hours uptime, the 3100 with the RAM disk active and without IDS:
iostat -x extended device statistics device r/s w/s kr/s kw/s ms/r ms/w ms/o ms/t qlen %b flash/sp 0 0 0.0 0.0 7 0 0 7 0 0 mmcsd0 0 0 0.1 4.8 1 4 0 4 0 0 mmcsd0bo 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 mmcsd0bo 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0I had also found the "Ignore denied clients" option in DHCP server which reduced log writing somewhat.
-
@steveits Thanks Steve.
Well your 3100 will last a lifetime with that - almost non-existent - write intensity to the eMMC. No doubt the RAM disk has a profound impact on this issue.
I’ll see if I can find the time to investigate and test RAMdisk further.
-
So just to add another data point to this conversation... My Netgate 4100 is 10 days less than 1 year old an I just ran the check on my eMMC drive...
I'm not impressed.
eMMC Life Time Estimation A [EXT_CSD_DEVICE_LIFE_TIME_EST_TYP_A]: 0x08
eMMC Life Time Estimation B [EXT_CSD_DEVICE_LIFE_TIME_EST_TYP_B]: 0x09
eMMC Pre EOL information [EXT_CSD_PRE_EOL_INFO]: 0x01Showing between 70-90% of it's expected life is gone with just under a year of usage... This thing will be a brick before I know it.
-
@nkull You should put an SSD in it now before you brick it at an inconvenient time.
-
@nkull Write usage depends a lot on logging and, well, usage. Are you using any of the "SSD/HDD recommended" packages on https://www.netgate.com/supported-pfsense-plus-packages? We haven't had such issues but we make a point of disabling logging of default block rules, and do not have a lot of Suricata logging, so writing is limited.
We also frequently use RAM disks now that they aren't preallocated from RAM. That may help you in the short term.
-
@nkull What packages are you running?
-
@SteveITS I do use Suricata - Just now realized that it was a SSD recommended package... I'll have to look at the RAM disk thing, but I'm also going to see if I can figure out getting a SSD installed so that maybe this thing isn't just a really expensive paperweight in a couple more months. Seems lame it ships with such crap storage, yeah I know there is an option for more, but maybe more robust storage should be standard if the unit can't handle a couple packages running on it, I mean what's the point if you just use it like a home Linksys router. Sure don't remember seeing anything obvious ahead of time saying that running without a SSD would kill the unit in a bit over a year.
-
@nkull Yeah, turn off logging for Suricata on an eMMC -- if you want the storage to last.
-
@rcoleman-netgate Yeah, little late for me to see that... Hopefully it's not too hard to swap in some good storage.
-
@nkull Yeah I wish they'd make that more obvious in the store or somewhere. Might sell more "max" units up front.
It really depends on logging. Some routers have a LOT of alerts from a high amount of traffic and/or open ports, some like to leave the dashboard running which logs to the web server log the whole time for every widget update.
I suppose another similar high-write situation is updating dev builds every day.
-
@SteveITS Well adding a RAM disk failed spectacularly, had to recover it at the console... How much space are you usually allocating? I did 400MB for both /tmp and /var and it crashed the system.
-
@SteveITS Probably a lot of alerts... I forward logs to a syslog and it keeps pretty busy. I do have open ports as I run services behind the unit. I am trying to shut down some logs now, I think I got the suricada logs turned off and I also disabled the default deny rule logs now.
-
@nkull Hmm, normally 512 and 1024 as I recall. Check /var and /tmp usage in the disk widget, it has to fit.
-
@SteveITS It was showing less than 50MB per when I set it up... but upon boot it filled 400GB before the thing could even get going... I look again now and they are nearly empty again.
-
-
@rcoleman-netgate said in eMMC Write endurance:
@nkull Yeah, turn off logging for Suricata on an eMMC -- if you want the storage to last.
Just gonna say, maybe you should put this on your product page when you are buying the unit, *Hey, you might want to consider better storage if you are going to use this for more than basic firewall applications because the storage on this device is gonna crap out! * or maybe when you install the packages in the router....
Instead the product page just has things like
"pfSense Plus software is a powerful firewall, router, and VPN solution that leverages a number of highly-regarded open-source projects. The software competes effectively with far more expensive, commercial alternatives and is used by hundreds of thousands of businesses, educational institutions, and government agencies all over the world. Leading secure-networking features and capabilities include:"
and
All at a fraction of the cost of proprietary alternatives, pfSense Plus software is the perfect answer. Popular pfSense Plus use cases include load balancing, traffic shaping, captive portal, UTM device, DNS/DHCP Server, IDS/IPS, transparency caching proxy, web content filtering, failover WAN, and much more.
Not very cost effective though if you burn through 90% of it's storage lifetime in 1 year... And I'm just one person... granted I'm a power user, but still.
That page you referenced is referenced nowhere on the product page itself. I just checked... and yeah, I'm feeling a little bitter about it. As I said, hopefully I can upgrade it, not that you have any information that helps with that like you did with older units... if I can't it will just be a paper weight pretty soon from the looks of it.
-
@nkull I installed a SSD in my SG-4100 around two weeks ago, it was pretty easy.
-
@mcury That's good to hear! I had not seen anyone confirm it in a 4100 yet, so that makes me happy... I have one on the way.
-
@nkull You will need to remove torx screws, if I remember correctly, I used T6, T8 and T10..
-
@mcury That I can do...
What drive did you end up putting in?
