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    Enhanced Intel SpeedStep / Speed Shift - Are they fully supported?

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    • stephenw10S
      stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
      last edited by

      Yeah it soon becomes unclear exactly what 'EIST' entails after some reading. In FreeBSD however EIST is SpeedStep and not SpeedShift as far as I know. And I've yet to see anything about Speed Select Technology.

      It seems likely the SpeedShift driver may just not support that CPU yet. However it could be just using the data passed via ACPI in which case maybe that system is just not passing it? Or not in a form the driver expects.

      If you boot Linux on that hardware can you see it using SpeedShift?

      RobbieTTR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • T
        tman222
        last edited by

        Figured it out! There as a BIOS option "Hardware P-States" that was set to "Disable". I enabled this and after that the hwpstate_intel driver loaded and Speed Shift settings were there in pfSense.

        @RobbieTT - if you are using a Supermicro system, look for the "Hardware P-States" setting under Advanced Power Management Configuration. I set mine to from "Disable" to "Native Mode" and things started working.

        RobbieTTR stephenw10S 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
        • RobbieTTR
          RobbieTT @stephenw10
          last edited by

          @stephenw10

          Yep, the Intel naming conventions are beyond known science and using the same letters in an acronym for a near identical and related term is just bonkers. Maybe cracking this will be second task for quantum computers, just after they tackle Cisco's pricing structure.

          I did load Ubuntu on this machine just to test it out of the box and Speed Shift (or later) seemed to work as expected. It was only well after that did I realise that not all OS kernels supported it and just happened to pick one that did.

          I guess I could put an additional SSD into it and install Ubuntu again for a proper look around but I already think that I am way out of my depth just reading the Intel documents.

          ☕️

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • RobbieTTR
            RobbieTT @tman222
            last edited by RobbieTT

            @tman222 said in Enhanced Intel SpeedStep / Speed Shift - Are they fully supported?:

            Figured it out! There as a BIOS option "Hardware P-States" that was set to "Disable". I enabled this and after that the hwpstate_intel driver loaded and Speed Shift settings were there in pfSense.

            @RobbieTT - if you are using a Supermicro system, look for the "Hardware P-States" setting under Advanced Power Management Configuration. I set mine to from "Disable" to "Native Mode" and things started working.

            You are right! Great spot! There are 2 different Hardware P-State settings, the first is enabled by default and has additional setting beyond it but this second one is different and disabled by default:

            Hardware PM State Control
            Hardware P-States
            This setting allows you to select between OS and hardware-controlled P-states. Selecting Native Mode allows the OS to choose a P-state. Selecting Out of Band Mode allows the hardware to autonomously choose a P-state without OS guidance. Selecting Native Mode with No Legacy Support functions as Native Mode with no support for older hardware.

            The options are Disable, Native Mode, Out of Band Mode, and Native Mode with No Legacy Support.

            Do we collectively think that Native (allowing the OS to choose a state) is ok with BSD (I think it is) or is Out of Band Mode a better option?

            ☕️

            T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • T
              tman222 @RobbieTT
              last edited by

              @RobbieTT said in Enhanced Intel SpeedStep / Speed Shift - Are they fully supported?:

              Do we collectively think that Native (allowing the OS to choose a state) is ok with BSD (I think it is) or is Out of Band Mode a better option?

              ☕️

              I was wondering this myself - if Out of Band mode is chosen does the hwpstate_intel driver still attach during boot? I would think that Native Mode is required for the driver to load, but I could be wrong.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • stephenw10S
                stephenw10 Netgate Administrator @tman222
                last edited by

                The driver only configures the parameters for the hardware to use it doesn't actually set P-states directly. So.... unclear!

                T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • T
                  tman222 @stephenw10
                  last edited by

                  @stephenw10 said in Enhanced Intel SpeedStep / Speed Shift - Are they fully supported?:

                  The driver only configures the parameters for the hardware to use it doesn't actually set P-states directly. So.... unclear!

                  Tried "Out of Band Mode" and the hwpstate_intel driver no longer loaded / attached during boot and Speed Shift settings were also gone in pfSense. Looks like it needs to be set to Native Mode to work properly.

                  Q 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • Q
                    q54e3w @tman222
                    last edited by

                    @tman222 mine is set to native and seems to be functioning. I have a few days worth of 23.09 SNMP data illustrating the delta between 2.7 hiadaptive and 23.09 ‘80’ I’ll share when I get back to my desk.

                    T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                    • T
                      tman222 @q54e3w
                      last edited by

                      @q54e3w said in Enhanced Intel SpeedStep / Speed Shift - Are they fully supported?:

                      @tman222 mine is set to native and seems to be functioning. I have a few days worth of 23.09 SNMP data illustrating the delta between 2.7 hiadaptive and 23.09 ‘80’ I’ll share when I get back to my desk.

                      Thanks @q54e3w - I look forward to seeing those statistics. I currently have mine set to 60 and the CPU is already running 2-3 degrees C cooler than before (when it was using EIST).

                      RobbieTTR Q 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • RobbieTTR
                        RobbieTT @tman222
                        last edited by

                        @tman222

                        Set mine this evening and set the GUI slider to 80 for now and the recommended 'per core' although it defaulted to 'package'. Not sure if you needed to un-tick the PowerD box but did so anyway:

                        20231110-Router-7-pfSense-Speed Step Enabled at 80.png

                        Noticed a couple of other changes on the Dashboard. The max frequency now shows as 2700 MHz (vice 2701) and the minimum freq displays 799 MHz (vice 800):

                        20231110-Router-7-BIOS to Intel Speed Shift-80-No turbo 2700 MHz question.png

                        (The above shows 8-cores as I don't have HT enabled)

                        Turbo still seems to work though:

                        load  31%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                        load  30%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                        load  39%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                        load  65%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                        

                        Shame I don't get any power data from this Supermicro PSU:

                        20231110-Supermicro-No Power Consumption Displayed.png

                        According to my UPS my system may have reduced by a few watts but too early to tell if that is really the case.

                        ☕️

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • T
                          tman222
                          last edited by tman222

                          On a related topic, have any of you made adjustments to the C-States on your firewalls? From what I can tell FreeBSD / pfSense show C1 and C2 as supported on the Xeon D-1718T CPU in my system:

                           dev.cpu.0.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/41
                          

                          Looking at the BIOS, I see that a C3 state is also supported and can be enabled. Unfortunately, even after enabling the additional C-State the OS still only seeds C1 and C2. Does anyone have any idea how to get the OS to recognize C3 as well?

                          Moving on, I saw that the hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest sysctl tunable was set to C1 but allowed me to switch it over to C2.

                          After ~24 hours of run time, I checked C state usage and it looks like that the system is very lightly utilized overall, i.e. spends the majority of time in the C2 state:

                           dev.cpu.7.cx_usage: 0.25% 99.74% last 98us
                           dev.cpu.5.cx_usage: 0.29% 99.70% last 994us
                           dev.cpu.3.cx_usage: 0.26% 99.73% last 618us
                           dev.cpu.1.cx_usage: 0.29% 99.70% last 495us
                           dev.cpu.6.cx_usage: 0.20% 99.79% last 25us
                           dev.cpu.4.cx_usage: 0.19% 99.80% last 284us
                           dev.cpu.2.cx_usage: 0.59% 99.40% last 131us
                           dev.cpu.0.cx_usage: 0.32% 99.67% last 81us
                          

                          I'm not quite sure yet how much incremental power savings there are allowing C2 over just C1, but the impact to performance appears to be negligible (if any impact at all). Having said that, exit latency on C-States is definitely something to keep mind, especially when dealing with networking equipment. Thankfully in this case the exit latency on the C2 state on my system is quite low - only 41 microseconds.

                          RobbieTTR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • RobbieTTR
                            RobbieTT @tman222
                            last edited by RobbieTT

                            @tman222 said in Enhanced Intel SpeedStep / Speed Shift - Are they fully supported?:

                            cx_supported

                            I keep mine in the default C1 as C2 seemed unusual for a router firewall and I didn't change the BIOS setting and I think only C1 & C2 are supported by pfSense.

                            There is constant background traffic on my network so I never imagined the C2 would be anything but an encumbrance. Hopefully Speed Shift does the clever stuff by core but perhaps I am mistaken for the wider system? Here are my stats for the D-1736NT:

                            dev.cpu.7.cx_usage: 100.00% 0.00% last 32us
                            dev.cpu.6.cx_usage: 100.00% 0.00% last 557us
                            dev.cpu.5.cx_usage: 100.00% 0.00% last 33us
                            dev.cpu.4.cx_usage: 100.00% 0.00% last 70us
                            dev.cpu.3.cx_usage: 100.00% 0.00% last 1290us
                            dev.cpu.2.cx_usage: 100.00% 0.00% last 317us
                            dev.cpu.1.cx_usage: 100.00% 0.00% last 1033us
                            dev.cpu.0.cx_usage: 100.00% 0.00% last 756us
                            dev.cpu.7.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/41
                            dev.cpu.6.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/41
                            dev.cpu.5.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/41
                            dev.cpu.4.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/41
                            dev.cpu.3.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/41
                            dev.cpu.2.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/41
                            dev.cpu.1.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/41
                            dev.cpu.0.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/41
                            

                            Having already disabled HT and setting Speed Shift to 80 I think the only extra power measures I could take is disabling unused interfaces. Perhaps I should allow the SSD to sleep but that may not make any real difference to power/heat.

                            ☕️

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • stephenw10S
                              stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                              last edited by

                              pfSense supports higher (lower?) C states if the BIOS passes them:

                              dev.cpu.0.cx_method: C1/mwait/hwc C2/mwait/hwc C3/mwait/hwc
                              dev.cpu.0.cx_usage_counters: 9066 5086 8391
                              dev.cpu.0.cx_usage: 40.21% 22.56% 37.22% last 2204us
                              dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest: C8
                              dev.cpu.0.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/127 C3/3/1048
                              
                              RobbieTTR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • RobbieTTR
                                RobbieTT @stephenw10
                                last edited by

                                @stephenw10
                                That's good to know. Typically, how deep down into the C-states would you expect for a router/firewall, without overly impacting performance?

                                ☕️

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • stephenw10S
                                  stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                                  last edited by

                                  For best performance I would disable C states deeper than C1. I have enabled a deep as it could go on some boxes that mostly sit idle and it makes no significant difference to either performance or power consumption beyond C3 as far as I could tell.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Q
                                    q54e3w @tman222
                                    last edited by q54e3w

                                    @tman222 Note vertical scale only goes to 30%, its an overpowered system
                                    ~24 hours pre/post upgrade
                                    CPUutil.jpg

                                    Pre/current
                                    CPU2.jpg

                                    Edit: I took the opportunity to upgrade the motherboard firmware at the same time as update pfSense too which may have some impact.

                                    RobbieTTR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • RobbieTTR
                                      RobbieTT @q54e3w
                                      last edited by

                                      @q54e3w
                                      Am I reading this correctly - that Speed Shift seems to work the CPU harder?

                                      I have noticed that the CPU tends to run at a higher load and frequency but drops pretty quickly, at least on my own system.

                                      ☕️

                                      Q 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Q
                                        q54e3w @RobbieTT
                                        last edited by q54e3w

                                        @RobbieTT Yup, it looks like it although how the operating system and pfSense has changed will also impact. Its not an apples to apples comparison exactly because its not on the same operating system and use of IPSec-MB etc. I also upgraded the BIOS at the same time given the box was out of service anyway.
                                        I'm currently trying '60' to see if it makes a noticeable difference to temps, power consumption or performance.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • stephenw10S
                                          stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                                          last edited by

                                          Speedshift reacts much faster so you will the CPU at higher frequencies more often. Quite how that translates into apparent loading though.... unclear!

                                          RobbieTTR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • RobbieTTR
                                            RobbieTT @stephenw10
                                            last edited by RobbieTT

                                            @stephenw10
                                            I think we may miss stuff with the reporting rate vs actual rate of change. With different frequencies on different cores the values we see may not be truly representative.

                                            With my previous 'adaptive' profile I didn't observe any turbo frequencies (does not mean it wasn't happening I guess) but with Speed Shift on 80 it sticks at 799 MHz under varying demand and then rapidly turbos when things get busy:

                                            [23.09-RELEASE][admin@Router-7.redacted.me]/root: powerd -v
                                            powerd: unable to determine AC line status
                                            CPU frequency is below user-defined minimum; changing frequency to 2700 MHz
                                            load   0%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 4754 MHz
                                            load   4%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 4605 MHz
                                            load  94%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 163%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 156%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 144%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 190%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 110%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 136%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 265%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 194%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 143%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 162%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 138%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 125%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 113%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 150%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 135%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  98%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 179%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 169%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 113%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 108%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 125%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 149%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 165%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 234%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 159%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 156%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  99%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  80%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 143%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 176%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 116%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 113%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 107%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 141%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 177%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 101%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 146%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 166%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 105%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  78%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 116%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 184%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 138%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 162%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 129%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 200%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 163%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 175%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  31%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load   3%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5231 MHz
                                            load   0%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5067 MHz
                                            load   0%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 4908 MHz
                                            load  54%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  41%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  39%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  37%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  89%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  37%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  31%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  47%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  31%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  30%, current freq 3199 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  39%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  65%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  75%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  22%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5231 MHz
                                            load  25%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5231 MHz
                                            load  44%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 110%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 127%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 176%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 138%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  36%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  11%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5231 MHz
                                            load  81%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 185%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 210%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 197%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  38%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  44%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  19%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5231 MHz
                                            load  22%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5067 MHz
                                            load  21%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 4908 MHz
                                            load  58%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 138%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  34%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  25%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  52%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load 119%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5400 MHz
                                            load  17%, current freq  799 MHz ( 0), wanted freq 5231 MHz
                                            

                                            I presume the above is just the fastest core though.

                                            ☕️

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