Hardware for VLAN testing (initially)

[0tt0]

Hi,

I was trying to follow up on this, mentioned in the pfsense GUI:

Note:
Not all drivers/NICs support 802.1Q VLAN tagging properly. On cards that do not explicitly support it, VLAN tagging will still work, but the reduced MTU may cause problems. See the pfSense handbook for information on supported cards.

I have found various discussions on the topic of NICs and VLAN but I'm not sure I've seen such a list somewhere, of supported cards.

In my pfsense 1.2.2 phpsysinfo says:

• fxp0: Intel 82801BA/CAM (ICH2/3) Pro/100 Ethernet
• xl0: 3Com 3c905B-TX Fast Etherlink XL

Are these crappy/decent/fantastic or what?
Are the above cards "safe" in the way pfsense means, as fully VLAN aware?

Now I have the 3com card facing LAN, perhaps I should switch them?

I would like to do some testing (am looking for a smartswitch or a L2 switch too for that purpose). Anyone have any ideas on good switches? Lots of people seem to think Cisco are over priced (when new) and I've heard suggestions of 3Com, HP procurve, Nortel or Enterasys switches too.

Also I'm thinking of bidding on a card on an Internet auction: "Intel Pro/1000 MT Dual Port Networkcard" with pasted info such as:

Eliminateserver bottlenecks and migrate existing Category-5 networks to GigabitEthernet easily and cost-effectively with the IntelPRO/1000 MT Server Adapter. Featuring flexible, auto-negotiating10/100/1000 Mbps performance,the Intel PRO/1000 MT Server Adapter isdesigned to automatically scale with growing networks.Enhance serverperformance further by teaming multiple Intel PRO ServerAdapters using Intel’s expanded advanced server feature software toachieve multi-Gigabit scalability and redundant failover capability.With a flexible design that fits almost any type of PCI bus, thestandards-based management features and wide network operating systemsupport help to ensure extensive compatibility with the latest serverand networking environments

I suspect this is one of those fine Intel server NICs then, right?

Any suggestions and discussion appreciated.

TIA

[wallabybob]

The FreeBSD vlan man page at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=vlan&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+7.1-RELEASE&format=html says fxp and xl both support vlan and large frames.

The cheapest VLAN capable switches I could find in Australia are the HP/Procurve 1400-8G (8 x 10/100 ports) and 1700-8G (7 x10/100 ports 1 x 10/100/1000 port). The Linksys SLM2008 (8 x 10/100/1000 ports) is a little more expensive and supports fewer VLANs than the HP switches. The HP products are well regarded. I don't have any experience of any of these products. Manuals and detailed specifications for these three switches can be downloaded from the manufacturers' web sites.

I suspect for most home uses 10/100 interfaces are more than adequate.

[jimp]

If you are just looking for test equipment, you can usually find a Cisco 2924-XL or 2950 on eBay for between $30-$75, depending on the day you look.

[ktims]

If you're gonna eBay it, I'd go for the Procurve 2524 or 2424m (or even a 4000m if you've got space) instead of a Cisco. Features and price-wise it's a similar switch, but you get free software upgrades and a lifetime warranty with the HP. Unless of course you're going for a CCNA or something, in which case the Cisco-specific stuff will help you out.

[Perry]

The HP 1800-8G switch is fanless and intel support FreeBSD with nic drivers

[0tt0]

Thanks for your comments.

I was uncertain of how to read the man page, I thought "my" drivers should end up in the first group, but maybe it's safe if the are listed in the second group too, maybe I was reading the groups differences incorrectly then.

I have actually thought of HP 1700 8/24, it looks really nice and it seem to be incredibly energy efficient and also doesn't need a fan as noted. I donno… I have some other expenses coming up, like replacing my Compaq 1500VA UPS with newer batteries (some 100-150$ noname..), so I have looked at some older switches. I think it's really useful with discussions round such issues (people also tend to search forums for them so it's probably appreciated with comments).

A few of the switches I have thought of buying (used) are:
cisco 2950
HP 2524
Nortel Baystack 450
3Com Sstack 2/3 3300/4400

Are there any models here that might be more interesting than others for various reasons? Obviously "knowing" cisco can be useful when working with IT stuff, but I've heard a lot of people having issues with cisco (over priced, consumes too much energy, too noisy etc). One person I listened too thought that Nortel and 3com was among the best there is, but I have never seen a Nortel switch myself (although they look interesting reading the manual).

I'm a bit uncertain of the differences between various 3com models, as I understand it there are both superstack 2 and 3 models of number 3300 etc.. I have downloaded a number of manuals for all these models, but there are thousands of pages so...

Unfortunately, when looking at ebay, that have mostly American sellers, not many seem to ship overseas, so it's barely even worth the time looking after stuff there (and the shipping rates may be too high too, I donno).

I have also come across a large number of D-Link "enterprise" switches when working. I'm not sure how common they are in other countries, here it seems they have succeeded well in marketing... I have nothing against them, the have worked well, I'm not sure I have run into any failures at all (we actually had a number of them as core switches at the company where I last worked) but I think I'd rather buy some other brand (if for no other reason so to learn something new).

TIA

[0tt0]

@Perry:

The HP 1800-8G switch is fanless and intel support FreeBSD with nic drivers

Nice, I think I have looked at this one before.

A question: What are the reasons for not placing HTPC and VoIP behind the pfsense? Is is some bandwidth consideration streaming multimedia or something else?

TIA

[jahonix]

Are you sure they are not behind pfSense? ;-)

What you see is the physical layout of a VLANed setup. The logical layout may be different. Especially when you are in a VLAN thread!  ;D

[0tt0]

@jahonix:

Are you sure they are not behind pfSense? ;-)

What you see is the physical layout of a VLANed setup. The logical layout may be different. Especially when you are in a VLAN thread!  ;D

True. I assumed it was the logical setup, since the opposite was not noted and since there IS a LAN noted elsewhere in the picture.

[mc_leuz]

@wallabybob:

The FreeBSD vlan man page at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=vlan&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+7.1-RELEASE&format=html says fxp and xl both support vlan and large frames.

The cheapest VLAN capable switches I could find in Australia are the HP/Procurve 1400-8G (8 x 10/100 ports) and 1700-8G (7 x10/100 ports 1 x 10/100/1000 port).

HP/Procurve 1400 series (unmanaged) has no vlan support afaik,
HP/Procurve 1700 series (managed) supports it.

[wallabybob]

HP/Procurve 1400 series (unmanaged) has no vlan support afaik,
HP/Procurve 1700 series (managed) supports it.

Sorry, my mistake. The hp web site makes no mention of VLAN support for the 1400 series and the 1400-8G has 8 10/100/1000 ports not 10/100 ports.

[0tt0]

@wallabybob:

HP/Procurve 1400 series (unmanaged) has no vlan support afaik,
HP/Procurve 1700 series (managed) supports it.

Sorry, my mistake. The hp web site makes no mention of VLAN support for the 1400 series and the 1400-8G has 8 10/100/1000 ports not 10/100 ports.

Yes, that's correct. I didn't think much of it since I had looked at them for a number of times. The fanless 1700-24 looks so nice, though I haven't been able to spot a single one used in 2 weeks time here.

I'm thinking of buying 2 used procurve 2524 in a few days, I hope they will make me happy. I have worked some with HP stuff earlier, including their "enterprise" access points and I think I like them. They do small things a little differently (but all of the big ones do I guess..) but they do make a very professional appearance.

Cheers,

[banstyle]

@mc_leuz:

HP/Procurve 1400 series (unmanaged) has no vlan support afaik,
HP/Procurve 1700 series (managed) supports it.

Take a look at the ProCurve 1800. The 1700 only supports 10/100 on the ports, where the 1800 is a 10/100/1000 device on all ports. I have these in place as some endpoint switches. They're iffy for enterprise due to the lack of true SNMP, but at home it's gotta be the best value I've seen. VLAN and Jumbo frames!

I've seen the 1800-24G go for $350 in the US and the 1800-8G for less.
For gigabit, I would say it's worth every penny.

[jahonix]

@0tt0:

I'm thinking of buying 2 used procurve 2524 in a few days, …

Check the firmware once you get them!
Newer firmwares have much better VLAN and grouping support. Been there, done that!

But the price point for the 1800-series is really great. If you need Gigabit, stick with those!

[0tt0]

@jahonix:

@0tt0:

I'm thinking of buying 2 used procurve 2524 in a few days, …

Check the firmware once you get them!
Newer firmwares have much better VLAN and grouping support. Been there, done that!

But the price point for the 1800-series is really great. If you need Gigabit, stick with those!

Good point, will surely do that, that's the reason for buying them in the first place. Do you find the 2524 a good switch? Anything in particular you find lacking with it or not so good? And, do you find the 2524 noisy? The 1700-, and 1800- don't have fans (not even the 24 port Giga!) but 2524 do and just maybe one will be sitting in an open environment, not sure how much I will notice it..

I don't really need Gigabit but I do need more ports than 8 and I find the 24 port of 1800 series a little expensive (in comparison) so I'll go with non-Gigabit, although Gigabit uplink would be handy perhaps..

Generally though it's really amazing how efficient HP switches are, I looked at some random switches from a number of manufacturers, like some 3com:s (all 24 ports) and some were around 150-170 W max power consumption but the max power consumption of the 2524 (which is 24 ports) is only 36W! One would really think they should have been able to cool that passively altogether then.

And lastly, anyone heard of an American (?) brand called "Allied telesys" or "Allied telesyn" (I've seen dealers using both versions) or something similar? I saw a few switches at an Internet online dealer here and the prices were very good (cheaper than 2524 and especially the smartswitch was very cheap) and they too were fan-less and looking in the manual it seems they have a pretty good feature set. To be honest many users of L2 switches would get by with the feature set of these smartswitches. Just curious if anyone has any opinions on them.

Found one here, look at the features. The HP 1700, 24 ports is around 36% more expensive than this one at this particular dealer.
http://www.alliedtelesyn.com/products/detail.aspx?pid=217&lid=15

TIA!

[jahonix]

Usually they make pretty robust stuff and seem to be more common in industrial environments.
Used some of their fiber converters recently. Flawlessly as expected.
Give it a try and report back what you find, please!

[0tt0]

@jahonix:

Usually they make pretty robust stuff and seem to be more common in industrial environments.
Used some of their fiber converters recently. Flawlessly as expected.
Give it a try and report back what you find, please!

Hi,

Well, now I'm sitting here with not one but two Procurve 2524 and one GB stacking kit. It's a very well built switch and I like it. Nonetheless I am actually a little bit uncertain of this. The reason is not the functionality (they are great, loads of features I won't need but can have fun testing with I guess..) however they do have a fan (and just one it seems, some other have 3 or 4 or more). And although I was very aware of that I kinda assumed it would be a little more quiet. I'll just have to wait and see if I can shield off the sound or if I'll simply sell them and get me a 1700-24 instead. (The main reason is the .1Q-support - anything else is a bonus).

Or perhaps it's safe to simply pull the fan out?!, if the loads stays low, which it will, compared to the maximum load the device is built for - full traffic on all ports? Any comments on that specific idea..?

Cheers,

[ktims]

@0tt0:

Or perhaps it's safe to simply pull the fan out?!, if the loads stays low, which it will, compared to the maximum load the device is built for - full traffic on all ports? Any comments on that specific idea..?

Oops, I probably should've mentioned that. Any 1U device with a fan is going to be quite loud, the tiny 40mm fans are really tough to get quiet, even the 'silent' ones aren't really.

I haven't done it with that HP model specifically, but I have with a Netgear and a Dell in my home network and not experienced and real problems. They get slightly warm, but nothing to be at all concerned about. Your HPs will have fan monitoring so they'll complain if you disconnect it, but I doubt you'll have any functional issues.

[GruensFroeschli]

There are also switches without fans, although they get quite warm in normal operation too.

http://www.procurve.com/news/fanless1800.htm
or the netgear FS726T.

[jahonix]

@jahonix:

Usually they make pretty robust stuff and seem to be more common in industrial environments.

Sorry, I was totally unclear here. I referred to the AlliedTelesyn stuff.