New book: VLANS in pfSense for absolute non-technical noobs
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It doesn't exist :-[ :-\ :'(
( ;D)
G'day all peoples lovers of the finest firewall in the universe :D
I am confused once again. Might I ask for some help?
[b]What I have
pfSense with only 2 NIC's 1LAN/1WAN (board is in my sig), currently only 1 LAN-subnet. Packages running Squid, Squidguard, Snort, Traffic Shaper (work in progress), and thanks to the great help of Nachtfalke since 2 days freeRadius with EAP-TLS to secure my wireless.Other hardware, aside from the usual HTPC's, my HP V1910 switch, my Synology NAS'ses, desktops, laptop, smartphones: two Ubiquity wireless accesspoints that form one WLAN-together (the Ubiquity software takes care of this, for 'seamless roaming'). All computers have fixed IP-adresses in the LAN.
A problem is: I use powerline (network over my power cables) to connect everything downstairs to the switch which is upstairs (as is pfSense, my Synologies, etc).
I have created a simple picture (looks horrible, horrible drawing program I used).
What I want
I would like all wireless to be separated into a different WLANThe problem
I have no clue how to do it ;DBecause
- First of all, I don't understand what 'trunking' and 'tagging' is supposed to mean. It is the same problem I had when setting up EAP-TLS (thanks again Nachtfalke for your great explanation :P); all documentation I can find is 'point and click'-documentation, which, for one reason or the other, already assumes that people know what these concepts mean.
- Secondly, I do understand that somebody, somewhere, has to tell somebody, somewhere, where the traffic has to go (to which VLAN, and this is apparently not 'tagging'), but then I am lost. Who decides what computer goes into what VLAN? pfSense? My switch? The computers themselves (meaning I have to tell for example my Windows 7 computer the VLAN-ID? That would appear not very safe to me).
- Given that there are 6 computers downstairs, connected to one single simple switch, which sends traffic through the wall via powerline, and which then arrives on 1 cat6 cable that goes into the switch, so 6 computers downstairs eventually go into one port in the master HP switch upstairs, how would which device (pfSense? Switch?) know that out of these 6 different computers downstairs 4 have to go into the 'normal VLAN', and 2 would have to go into the separate, new VLAN for wireless? I guessed this would be on MAC-address or something, but this I couldn't get confirmed.
- The two Ubiquity WAP-devices have a setting in it to assign them to a certain VLAN. Is it really that simple as to setup a VLAN20, tell the two WAP's they are in VLAN20, and then it works? Do I need to tell the switch something then? Or is this the wrong approach?
And then there is also something like 'dynamic VLAN' as opposed to 'static VLAN' :-[
As many times before, I will understand it when you all think I am vague in my questions and probably not too bright in these matters; my Wife thinks the same ;D ;D ;D
Thank you in advance once again for any helps,
Bye,
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So before we get all bogged down into "vlans" that clearly you don't have clue one to start with.. Lets ask a simple question can you not juts add another network connection to your pfsense? Where your AP could connect – this would allow you to isolate your lan from your wireless without having to understand tagging or what a trunk is, etc.
Nics are REALLY cheap.. is there no slot in your pfsense box for another network card?
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So before we get all bogged down into "vlans" that clearly you don't have clue one to start with.. Lets ask a simple question can you not juts add another network connection to your pfsense? Where your AP could connect – this would allow you to isolate your lan from your wireless without having to understand tagging or what a trunk is, etc.
Nics are REALLY cheap.. is there no slot in your pfsense box for another network card?
Thank you John, that is very kind of you to respond (and not the first time either ;D). I think adding extra NIC's would pose some small problems:
1. High quality Intel NICs are not that cheap, and from a very wise man I have taken to heart to stick with Intel;
2. I think it won't solve the problem of the second access point, the one that is downstairs and also travels via powerline to the switch which is upstairs; I can't plug that in a separate NIC this way (there is only 1 powerline going from downstairs to upstairs, I wouldn't see how I could make that two).So I am afraid it has to be VLAN. But, my selfconfidence has grown. I thought 'freeRadius is too difficult for me', but thanks to the great help I got that to work. So I think with a little help/suggestions I might get VLANS to work too ;D
Thank you again John,
Bye,
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So you buy a little pocket switch for your wireless segment, now you have full physical network isolation.
so nic to pocket switch to AP, from pocket switch to powerline to other AP.
And what intel cards are you looking at.. Lets see you run your AP over powerline currently how does say this $30 intel nic not cut the mustard?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106033
But if you want to do vlans - real simple look in your switch docs on how to create a trunk port.. So where you pfsense nic connects to your hp switch that will be a trunk (more than 1 vlan can go over it).. Then create ports that connect to your AP in a vlan number. Then on pfsense create a vlan with the same tag number. And tie it to your physical interface that is connected to your trunk – shazam your running vlans ;)
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Your sticking point is "cheap switch" downstairs. To separate the WAP2 traffic from the other traffic downstairs you have to have a VLAN-capable switch down there. Then you can do, for example, VLAN10=general LAN, VLAN20=WiFi-devices and the switch ports between upstairs and downstairs are setup as tagged ports that pass both VLAN10 and VLAN20 packets in tagged form, so the switch at either end receiving the packets knows which VLAN they belong to.
Otherwise you need 2 real connection paths from downstairs to upstairs somehow. -
Thank you to the both of you for your help; much, much appreciated ;D ( :-*)
I have been testing, trying, and messing around, for 5 whole hours now ( >:() and I have something working, and something not. I don't have internet access, and the laptop doesn't get an IP whereas the two smartphones do.
I will ellaborate:
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This morning, in the shower, it occurred to me: my two Ubiquity access points can do multiple SSID's, with a VLAN-tag. This might prevent me from having to buy additional hardware (nice idea, btw, John; thanks :)).
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So, I found a very useful instruction for noobs like me, over here: http://www.iceflatline.com/2013/09/how-to-create-and-configure-vlans-in-pfsense/ , and used that as a starting point.
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So the configuration was as follows:
(Note, before adding VLAN I just had WAN/pppoE on em0, and LAN/192.158.2.1 on em1).
Switch
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pfSense/LAN is on port 3. Made it: trunked, VLAN40
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WAP downstairs, via powerline, is on port 7, (as are the other downstairs computers). Made it: trunked, VLAN40
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WAP upstairs is on port 13. Made it: trunked, VLAN40
pfSense
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Created VLAN040 on em1, static IPv4 192.168.4.1/24, gateway none.
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Services/DHCP-server/VLAN40: enable DHCP-server, Gatewat 192.168.4.1
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Services/DNS-forwarder: Interfaces ALL (and manually CTRL-select all of them just to be sure).
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Firewall/rules/VLAN40: allow all (screenshots).
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Firewall/NAT/Outbound: manual (a post on this forum suggested that). Copied 'LAN' to VLAN40 (screenshot).
Access points:
- Setup a new SSID (berenboot, it's got to have a name ;D), tag it as VLAN40.
And then, off and on:
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Doing it without Radius server and enabling radius server with PAEP;
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Disabling Squid/Squidguard/Snort;
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Adding firewall rules from VLAN40 to LAN (not that I am sure I know what I am doing, but I thought since pfSense itself is in 192.168.2.1 which is 'LAN', perhaps for some reason or the other VLAN40 had to go to 'LAN'/192.168.2.1 also, or something ???).
Now, the funny thing is, whatever I tried: laptop (Windows 7) refuses to connect at all, smartphones (HTC One SV, Android 4.2) do connect (get IP's 192.168.4.11 and 192.168.4.12, both without and with Radius), but there is no internet access (as I read probably this whole forum in the meantime ( ;D) I was looking from a a way to ping the gateway from within the smartphones but I haven't found out how to do this yet, and since the laptop refuses to connect at all I can't use that to do a simple command prompt ping 192.168.4.1).
Even the more funny is: as far as I know everything is set up exactly als 'LAN', 192.168.2.1, where all three mobile devices still connect to without any problems (Radius EAP-TLS) and do have internet access.
Meanwhile, the other PC's downstairs that also come in through powerline (like PC Wife, as in 'wife = food' :D) remain working, even with the VLAN-tagging of the ports, so something must have gone right in messing with the switch.
So I have no clue. There are two things I can think of:
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The ubiquity WAP's are static IP's from 192.168.2 (LAN), so 192.168.2.3 and 192.168.2.4. So that is how they wake up. But then they create a wireless network to serve 192.168.4. Is that possible at all, or lies the problem in here? (I am having trouble understanding why not; after all, since the WAP's can assign 4 VLANs (to 4 SSID's), and VLAN's have different subnets, this implies it shouldn't be a problem. Otherwise, what's the use of being able to assign 4 different VLAN's on 4 different SSID's if they can't work with the 4 different subnets that go with it?
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Phil, your remark about the cheap switch downstairs seems very plausible, but my little brain is lost again (I never said I have a large brain; I have a large head, yes, but inside it is mostly air ;D). I could understand that you would say 'the WAP downstairs can tag packets with VLAN40 but the cheap switch strips that data from it, and hence it goes wrong), but taking everybody (2 smartphones + 1 laptop) upstairs, to the WAP that is directly connected to the HP Switch (which can work with the VLAN tags, being a 'smart switch' (well, I doubt, because if it really was smart it wouldn't be bothering me with telling it what to do ;D)), there still is no internet. So then my brain goes into reboot mode and stays there :-[ [/li]
I will upload a bunch of screenshots next.
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The switch configuration (HP V1910-16G, smart switch)
![01 Create VLAN40.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/01 Create VLAN40.png)
![01 Create VLAN40.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/01 Create VLAN40.png_thumb)
![02 Modify Ports 03_07_13 - Link Type Trunk.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/02 Modify Ports 03_07_13 - Link Type Trunk.png)
![02 Modify Ports 03_07_13 - Link Type Trunk.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/02 Modify Ports 03_07_13 - Link Type Trunk.png_thumb)
![03 Modify Ports 03_07_13 - tagged member VLAN40.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/03 Modify Ports 03_07_13 - tagged member VLAN40.png)
![03 Modify Ports 03_07_13 - tagged member VLAN40.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/03 Modify Ports 03_07_13 - tagged member VLAN40.png_thumb)
![04 Result - Port details.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/04 Result - Port details.png)
![04 Result - Port details.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/04 Result - Port details.png_thumb)
![05 Create Interface VLAN40.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/05 Create Interface VLAN40.png)
![05 Create Interface VLAN40.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/05 Create Interface VLAN40.png_thumb)
![06 Result - VLAN40 Interface.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/06 Result - VLAN40 Interface.png)
![06 Result - VLAN40 Interface.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/06 Result - VLAN40 Interface.png_thumb)
![07 Result - VLAN Interfaces.png](/public/imported_attachments/1/07 Result - VLAN Interfaces.png)
![07 Result - VLAN Interfaces.png_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/07 Result - VLAN Interfaces.png_thumb) -
The wireless access points (2x), 1x UAP-PRO (dual band), 1x UAP (single band), having both my 'normal' wireless (in the 192.168.2.x - LAN-range) and the new VLAN40 as two different SSID's.
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pfSense configuration:
![01 pfSense_create VLAN.jpg](/public/imported_attachments/1/01 pfSense_create VLAN.jpg)
![01 pfSense_create VLAN.jpg_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/01 pfSense_create VLAN.jpg_thumb)
![02 pfSense_assign_VLAN.jpg](/public/imported_attachments/1/02 pfSense_assign_VLAN.jpg)
![02 pfSense_assign_VLAN.jpg_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/02 pfSense_assign_VLAN.jpg_thumb) -
Continued:
![03 pfSense_DHCP.jpg](/public/imported_attachments/1/03 pfSense_DHCP.jpg)
![03 pfSense_DHCP.jpg_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/03 pfSense_DHCP.jpg_thumb)
![04 pfSense_firewall.jpg](/public/imported_attachments/1/04 pfSense_firewall.jpg)
![04 pfSense_firewall.jpg_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/04 pfSense_firewall.jpg_thumb) -
Final:
![05 pfSense_DNS-forwarder.jpg](/public/imported_attachments/1/05 pfSense_DNS-forwarder.jpg)
![05 pfSense_DNS-forwarder.jpg_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/05 pfSense_DNS-forwarder.jpg_thumb)
![06 pfSense_NAT-OUTBOUND.jpg](/public/imported_attachments/1/06 pfSense_NAT-OUTBOUND.jpg)
![06 pfSense_NAT-OUTBOUND.jpg_thumb](/public/imported_attachments/1/06 pfSense_NAT-OUTBOUND.jpg_thumb) -
This concludes me fotographing my screen ;D ;D ;D
Once again, thank you very much for your help; it is extremely appreciated. I will gladly buy you a coffee once I get this to work. Then I have it all: a great firewall, Squid, Squidguard, Snort, FreeRadius EAP-TLS, and VLAN's to further secure my network. Then I can die a happy man. Once I have saved enough money to ensure I have a second pfSense as a fallback machine ;D
Thank you very much,
Bye,
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Something I want to throw in here was when I was trying to use powerline to move a noisy server into my garage while I configured it, I came to the conclusion that my powerline adapters (Belkin F5D4076-S v2) didn't properly pass VLAN tags. I ended up replacing the powerline adapters with a 50-foot cable and it all fired right up. IIRC, I went from powerline back to the cable a couple times to verify. I have not put them on the bench to see exactly what was happening.
Another opinion: If your prem is wired for Cable TV, MoCA blows powerline away. And VLAN tags pass just fine.
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Also, if your LAN is untagged and your VLAN40 is tagged and they're on the same interface/port, you might have to do something special in the switch. Some "Trunk" ports will discard untagged traffic. It might have to be configured as a "general" (cisco small business) or "dual-mode" (brocade) port. In these instances you tell the switch on which VLAN you want untagged traffic placed.
I would just not have a pfSense LAN interface assigned to the main hardware (untagged) interface. Create VLAN tags for all networks and tag/trunk everything. I find it more straightforward.
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Thank you all very much for replying ;D
I have good news. It is working, but I have no clue why :-[
I found the remark about cheap hardware which couldn't transfer the VLAN-tag very plausible, but: it still works :o
I had to ask WIFE if she understood the HP manual, which it appears she did (and she can cook too :-X). So she messed around in the switch, 'oh, easy, I'll just tagg these ports' (duh), and next I told the Ubiquity WAP that the WLAN was to be have the tag 'VLAN70'. This ubiquity is connected wired to a cheap unmanaged switch downstairs, which in turn is connected to the power circuit to send the signal upstairs to the managed switch, so 2 devices that can not transfer VLAN70 with it.
But still it works ???
The smartphones and the laptop are sent to VLAN70, getting an IP from that range (192.168.7.x) whenever they connect wireless, and are sent to LAN, getting the default 192.168.2.x IP, when they connect wired.
No clue why it works, but it does.
And it doesn't.
( ;D)
Because: doing exactly the same for a second VLAN, VLAN60, with pre-ci-se-ly the same settings? Does not work. Neither smartphones nor laptop get an IP in 192.168.6.x, and they also don't get any in 192.168.2.x. They 'can't connect'.
Shoot me ???
Anyway, thank you all for your kind replies, new years eve for now :(
( >:( = parents in law. Like WIFE, don't like parents in law ;D).
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You can't plug the Ubiquity into an unmanaged switch and expect VLAN tags from the access point to be maintained.
You don't have to spend a lot to get a VLAN-capable, managed switch:
http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-EasySmart-Managed-Gigabit-DGS-1100-08/dp/B008ABLU2I
It's quite possible that the one VLAN that's working is actually functioning as untagged on the default VLAN after going through the unmanaged switch (and possibly the powerline adapters, as I mentioned earlier.)
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You can't plug the Ubiquity into an unmanaged switch and expect VLAN tags from the access point to be maintained.
It's quite possible that the one VLAN that's working is actually functioning as untagged on the default VLAN after going through the unmanaged switch (and possibly the powerline adapters, as I mentioned earlier.)
Thank you for your reply ;D
Yes, I found it very plausible that it isn't possible, I agree with you.
Is there a way for me to find out if it is currently doing what you say it is doing? What should I look for in the HP Switch configuration screens? (I know it sounds dumb, but I am rather very dumb when it comes to this subject :-[).
Thank you ;D
EDIT: forgot: I have no problem buying a new managed switch for downstairs, but that will still not solve the fact that the switch then travels via powerline.
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The powerline is nothing else but a network cable in another form… It shouldnt alter the traffic unless routing or otherwise is a part of the equation.
To get VLAN's working you need to set the same VLAN's on the switch with the same tags as the ones on your Pfsense. Simples.
Then it transfers the tagging and traffic across with no issues. I have about 600 VLAN's running here on 2 physical HP switches configured for failover.
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The powerline is nothing else but a network cable in another form… It shouldnt alter the traffic unless routing or otherwise is a part of the equation.
To get VLAN's working you need to set the same VLAN's on the switch with the same tags as the ones on your Pfsense. Simples.
Then it transfers the tagging and traffic across with no issues. I have about 600 VLAN's running here on 2 physical HP switches configured for failover.
Thank you for your reply Supermule ;D
Just to be make sure I completely understand you: you are saying that only a managed switch downstairs is sufficient? So powerline is not a problem (as that was written before)?
EDIT: But still I should need to find out why it appears to working right now then, even 'though the laws of dictate it shouldn't.
Thank you ;D
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You can't plug the Ubiquity into an unmanaged switch and expect VLAN tags from the access point to be maintained.
[snip]
It's quite possible that the one VLAN that's working is actually functioning as untagged on the default VLAN after going through the unmanaged switch (and possibly the powerline adapters, as I mentioned earlier.)
I discussed with WIFE, who is sysadmin of BRAINS, and she posed an interesting question. If what you say is true (which we interpret as 'the VLAN-tag data is 'stripped' from the packets by the unmanaged switch, so before it arrives at pfSense), then how come that they get an IP-address in the VLAN-range from pfSense, and not an IP-address in the LAN-range?
Like said:
Laptop, wireless via WAP -> 192.168.7.10
Laptop, wired via HP-switch -> 192.168.2.10