Dual Intel LAN NUC!
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There is nothing wrong with it. Thats the way to measure it.
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I have done some testing on pfsense 2.2 and I think the cause for the higher power usage is that the CPU is not switching to >C1 states on the jetway NUC. I already tried all sorts of things: disabling throttle+p4tcc, trying to set hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest="C3" and various P-State settings in the BIOS, but after booting hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest remains on C1 and no change to dev.cpu.0.cx_usage. Strangely dev.cpu.0.cx_supported does list C2/C3. No obvious problem reported in dmesg either.
Being a FreeBSD/pfsense user for just some hours, I wonder if this is a limitation of FreeBSD on Bay Trail-M? A BIOS problem? A missing setting in rc.conf?
Any idea what I could try next? C6 does work with ipfires Linux kernel 3.10 so it's not completly broken.
dev.cpu.0.freq_levels: 1826/2000 1660/1825 1494/1650 1328/1475 1162/1300 996/1125 871/984 830/950 726/831 664/775 581/678 498/600 435/525 373/450 311/375 249/300 186/225 124/150 62/75 dev.cpu.0.cx_supported: C1/1/1 C2/2/500 C3/3/5000 dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest: C1 dev.cpu.0.cx_usage: 100.00% 0.00% 0.00% last 384us dev.cpu.0.coretemp.delta: 60 dev.cpu.0.coretemp.resolution: 1 dev.cpu.0.coretemp.tjmax: 105.0C dev.cpu.0.coretemp.throttle_log: 0 dev.cpu.0.temperature: 45.0C dev.cpu.1.%desc: ACPI CPU dev.cpu.1.%driver: cpu dev.cpu.1.%location: handle=\_PR_.CPU1 dev.cpu.1.%pnpinfo: _HID=none _UID=0 dev.cpu.1.%parent: acpi0 dev.cpu.1.cx_supported: C1/1/1 dev.cpu.1.cx_lowest: C1 dev.cpu.1.cx_usage: 100.00% last 88273us dev.cpu.1.coretemp.delta: 60 dev.cpu.1.coretemp.resolution: 1 dev.cpu.1.coretemp.tjmax: 105.0C dev.cpu.1.coretemp.throttle_log: 0 dev.cpu.1.temperature: 45.0C dev.cpu.2.%desc: ACPI CPU dev.cpu.2.%driver: cpu dev.cpu.2.%location: handle=\_PR_.CPU2 dev.cpu.2.%pnpinfo: _HID=none _UID=0 dev.cpu.2.%parent: acpi0 dev.cpu.2.cx_supported: C1/1/1 dev.cpu.2.cx_lowest: C1 dev.cpu.2.cx_usage: 100.00% last 79us dev.cpu.2.coretemp.delta: 56 dev.cpu.2.coretemp.resolution: 1 dev.cpu.2.coretemp.tjmax: 105.0C dev.cpu.2.coretemp.throttle_log: 0 dev.cpu.2.temperature: 49.0C dev.cpu.3.%desc: ACPI CPU dev.cpu.3.%driver: cpu dev.cpu.3.%location: handle=\_PR_.CPU3 dev.cpu.3.%pnpinfo: _HID=none _UID=0 dev.cpu.3.%parent: acpi0 dev.cpu.3.cx_supported: C1/1/1 dev.cpu.3.cx_lowest: C1 dev.cpu.3.cx_usage: 100.00% last 39747us dev.cpu.3.coretemp.delta: 56 dev.cpu.3.coretemp.resolution: 1 dev.cpu.3.coretemp.tjmax: 105.0C dev.cpu.3.coretemp.throttle_log: 0 dev.cpu.3.temperature: 49.0C hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest: C1 machdep.idle_mwait: 1 machdep.idle_available: spin, mwait, hlt, acpi machdep.idle: acpiOtherwise the only two other things that slightly helped reducing power usage were:
# avoid power for devices without driver 0.2W hw.pci.do_power_nodriver=3 # Powermanagement for SATA 0.5W hint.ahcich.0.pm_level=5 hint.ahcich.1.pm_level=5 -
Hmm, interesting.
I have played with power tuning on a couple of boxes, both much older than this. A Pentium-M based box responded very well to powerd controlling the P states, 15-20% idle power reduction. However a C2D box much less well, though I was hacking the BIOS to enable speedstep etc which confused things. ;) It appeared as though the lower power C states overwhelmed any gains made by using P states. On that box I had to enable the lower C states in the BIOS and then set the sysctl to allow a lower 'lowest' state. It's a while ago now but I'm pretty sure I set dev.cpu.0.cx_lowest rather than hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest.
powerd can control a couple of other things but mostly does only CPU power control.Steve
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Thanks stephenw10. I tried everything. Switched to FreeBSD 10.1RC4 and generated the data necessary to file bug report 194920 on bugs.freebsd.org . Maybe they will fix this for FreeBSD 11.
The additional 1.5W power this bug seems to cause on idle are less of a concern to me as the pfsense 2.2 system is down to 9W with the noted settings. A bigger concern is, that this might be the reason for powerd being stuck to 1826 MHz and not getting into turbo with the openssl speed test running on one thread? For now, the speed should be more than fine for my 50MBit VPN. But with 100MBit this might become a problem.
Forgot to talk about temperatures on the jetway NUC: CPU is usualy fine with <50C. It takes some time until the case warms up under heavy load. A bit concern gives me the mSATA ssd wich already has reached a max temp of 63C during the tests and it is not >40C in summer and heavy load for hours. Jetway seems to also have some suspicions for such extremes and did add a fan connector. But I guess a small heatsinks connecting SSD with the case will be totaly fine for me.
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My understanding is that the 'turbo' mode is not dependent on the OS, I don't think powerd is the issue here.
Also I imagine that cpu will easily manage 100Mbps of vpn traffic even at the lower frequency.Steve
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I couldn't find any info on the Bay Trail turbo mode, but all info I found from Intel seems to indicate that C1 state is considered active when it comes to turbo mode and thus there is no turbo with all cores in C0 or C1. If powerd doesn't display the turbo frequency even if activated by the cpu hardware, then I guess I have to find another way to test that.
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The cpu frequency should be shown in the sysctls. I forget exactly which one, I usually just grep for 'freq'.
Steve
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I made a copy/paste fault while testing FreeBSD 10.1RC4 and unlike pfsense C2 (not C3) states are reached. This at least gave me an idea what might be wrong with pfsense 2.2 beta.
My current guess is, that saving
performance_cx_lowest="C8"
economy_cx_lowest="C8"in /etc/rc.conf.local doesn't work on pfsense 2.2 beta unlike FreeBSD. The setting has no effect on sysctl output after reboot like on FreeBSD.
I couldn't find any actual data on the net, but where do I have to save this if not /etc/rc.conf.local on pfsense 2.2? Maybe I should create a new thread on this as this doesn't seem to be jetway NUC related.
I also run some benchmarks and the turbo mode seems to be working on pfsense/jetway NUC even if all cores are in C1. So all is well with the jetway NUC. Only the idle power usage is slightly higher compare to pfsense 2.1.5/ipfire…
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Custom sysctl settings can be added via the webgui in System: Advanced: System Tunables: that way they are saved in the config file and carried across an upgrade.
However these are the equivalent of using /etc/sysctl.conf in FreeBSD. Hmm, not sure about rc.conf settings. :-\ You're correct that these files are not used in pfSense as they are in FreeBSD, they are generated by the pfSense scripts using info in the config file.Steve
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Hi there,
Im new to the forum and PFSense, I was searching for the forum for the
Jetway NU93-2930 motherboard
I didnt get any hits but searching for the CPU I found this thread. Rather than start a new thread thats basically the same
I tacked on (Hope you dont mind)The board seems ideal, tiny, dual intel gigabit ,variable power requirements and CHEAP!
I have just yesterday upgraded to 74/19 fibre and Im thinking firewall/virus protection and VPN
Does the CPU in this little board of tricks have enough left for future tinkering?
I use Bittorrent alot and intend to host a game server next year.EDIT: Im in the UK
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Its max ram is 4GB - maybe not an issue but packet sniffing combined with packet filtering may take this to the top of the memory stack.
"Shared mPCI-e slot" could be interesting for additional Ethernet
power savings are huge with this "NUC" - this is put into a full box solution with JBC311U93E-2930-B priced at $220 barebones (CPU, power, wifi /BT included.) Will have to boot off something other than a 2.5" sata drive. No room in box or SATA header for 2.5" media.
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Rexki, the Jetway is listed with 4GB max, but for instance on http://www.mini-itx.com/store/~JBC311W you do get 8GB DDR3 lp modules for it. Seeing similar offers for other N29x0 systems with single memory slots, I assume the CPU is capable of addressing 8GB with certain 8GB modules.
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In hawaii I was able to run all my lights in my small apartment and only used a 100W panel.
Less light in Maryland, so I use 3.
You can size your battery, charger, inverter etc based stricly on the intended load.
You can estimate solar panel need to be around 200w to keep the battery charged.
You can add another panel if its not charging well.
Its hard to estimate your available sunlight not being there. Not knowing your available orientation to the sun. Average shading. ETC.
Knowing what you know about seasonal solar variation there, build and test it in the dead of winter. Around Dec 21st – Winter Solstice
Yes - The computer runs 24/7. It barely bothers the batteries. They recharge to full shortly after the sun is up. Its drawing maybe 13w.
I think solar is a great way to power low watt items like modem, router, switch etc. If sized properly, its far more reliable than grid power.
Pretty much guaranteed to never surge or spike or brown out if its all DC directly its especially reliable.
So thats Maryland.
Where I am now, in Manila, there is 4x as much solar radiation and electricity is 2.5x higher than USA prices.
This is what we call a "no brainer". I will build something here big enough to power the house completely.
I lived in Hawaii for 7 years.
Did you only have one light in your apartment?
The issue in Maryland isn't lighting, it's climate control (HVAC).
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Nooooo - I had 1 light in the living room, one in the dinning room, 1 in the kitchen, 1 on stairs and 1 hall. All were compact florescent.
During the day it was sunny so lights usually off. The living room light was on from sun down til we slept, so maybe 4 or 5 hours.
The other lights were on when people were going up or down stairs at night and when cooking or eating or whatever.
It was always fairly bright in the house. I probably burned the lights alot more than most because it was free.
Now maryland is a different story. Less sun so each panel never puts out what its rated for.
Takes several panels to meet what 1 in a hawaii will do in a day.
Now I'm in Manila and my brother is using the solar bank and it just keeeeeeeppppppssss going. Its getting close to 20 years now I guess that thing has been working.
We have alot of sun here also. When I buy a house here I will only need about 2k watts of solar to power everything I use….
With the price of electricity here, the panels will pay for themselves in about 2 years.
BTW - When I was in Hawaii the houses in Ewa Beach used AC but the ones in Mililani didn't.
So, I guess you are on the leeward side or out towards Ewa? Or the big island?
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To power EVERYTHING on a house in Maryland, you need the whole roof in EV panels - Maybe 10kw of panel.
Its not going to pay back as fast as a place like here or hawaii, but its still a good investment long term. -
So, I guess you are on the leeward side or out towards Ewa? Or the big island?
No. When I lived in Hawaii I was in Kaneohe for a couple years, then near the top of Hale Koa Drive, above Kahala. (Both on Oahu).
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Sounds like where they put marines…
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Marines are at MCBH, which is Kailua.
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@gonzopancho:
The C2358 (RCC-VE) platform also has better Intel NICs, and for approximately the same price as that NUC, you get 4 of them, and another miniPCIe socket (with SIM support).
Do you have any idea what the idle power consumption might be for the Netgate RCC-VE 2440? Also, any idea when it can be purchased? Webpage says "Available Q1 2015" which is now, but no "add to cart" button.
@gonzopancho:
And then there is this: http://imgur.com/EeLBavM
It's small. It also has better Intel NICs (i350 .vs 82574L), it wants 12VDC in, and if you can't provide that, you have different problems. It's very low power. It supports AES-NI. It also lacks HDMI and audio ports (yuck on a router/firewall)
In early 2Q15, it will be available at a similar price to the PC Engines APU. (Note: it's related to the product you'll find on Netgate/ADI websites, but I'm talking about a spin.)
Does that mean it's a spin on the RCC-DFF 2220? Any more details (manufacturer, model name, part numbers, firmer availability date)? Any idea on idle power consumption of the the "coming soon" product, or the RCC-DFF 2220?
For what it's worth, I have an Intel NUC D54250WYK that I'm using as a media PC. I have it configured with a mSATA SSD and a single 4 GB 1.35v SO-DIMM. Idle power consumption, as measured by a Kill-a-Watt meter, is around 5 or 6 watts (of course power consumption under load can be much higher, but it's mostly idle, and even for typical tasks, it stays under 15 watts). Note this has a much better CPU (i5-4250U) than the N2930 in the Jetway system linked above. The i5-4250U supports AES-NI, too. If only it had a second NIC!
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@gonzopancho:
The C2358 (RCC-VE) platform also has better Intel NICs, and for approximately the same price as that NUC, you get 4 of them, and another miniPCIe socket (with SIM support).
Do you have any idea what the idle power consumption might be for the Netgate RCC-VE 2440? Also, any idea when it can be purchased? Webpage says "Available Q1 2015" which is now, but no "add to cart" button.
Yes I do. "Add to cart" will work when they're in-stock.
@gonzopancho:
And then there is this: http://imgur.com/EeLBavM
It's small. It also has better Intel NICs (i350 .vs 82574L), it wants 12VDC in, and if you can't provide that, you have different problems. It's very low power. It supports AES-NI. It also lacks HDMI and audio ports (yuck on a router/firewall)
In early 2Q15, it will be available at a similar price to the PC Engines APU. (Note: it's related to the product you'll find on Netgate/ADI websites, but I'm talking about a spin.)
@ConcreteRooster:Does that mean it's a spin on the RCC-DFF 2220? Any more details (manufacturer, model name, part numbers, firmer availability date)? Any idea on idle power consumption of the the "coming soon" product, or the RCC-DFF 2220?
Actually what you see in the picture is a DFF-2220. Yes, there is a spin coming, more … purpose tuned to what one might want in a small, compact box. http://store.netgate.com/ADI/RCC-DFF-2220.aspx
For what it's worth, I have an Intel NUC D54250WYK that I'm using as a media PC. I have it configured with a mSATA SSD and a single 4 GB 1.35v SO-DIMM. Idle power consumption, as measured by a Kill-a-Watt meter, is around 5 or 6 watts (of course power consumption under load can be much higher, but it's mostly idle, and even for typical tasks, it stays under 15 watts). Note this has a much better CPU (i5-4250U) than the N2930 in the Jetway system linked above. The i5-4250U supports AES-NI, too. If only it had a second NIC!
For what it's worth, I have the same NUC sitting on my desk at home (mine has 8GB). It runs FreeBSD (11-HEAD). I use it for network … load testing.
I also have (as you might imagine) several C2000-series boxes. Yes, at home. It's a playground^Wlab.
Anyway, TDP on the i5-4250U is 15W, base frequency is 1.3GHz, Turbo is 2.6GHz (http://ark.intel.com/products/75028/Intel-Core-i5-4250U-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-2_60-GHz).
TDP on a C2358 (2 core C2000) is 7W, base frequency is 1.7GHz, Turbo is 2.0GHz (http://ark.intel.com/products/77978/Intel-Atom-Processor-C2358-1M-Cache-1_70-GHz)A D54250WYK NUC will run you $340 or more online, and you still have to supply RAM and a drive of some kind. Assuming you wanted to run a m-sata in the C2358 (note that it has eMMC on-board, so I'm artificially inflating the price of the C2000), you would still need 4GB of ram. Spot-check on Amazon says that you'll pay at least $27 for a Crucial DDR3L SO-DIMM, so you're at $367 for the NUC with ram, and you still have to solve the "second Ethernet" problem.
The RCC-DFFv2 2220 is $275. The RCC-VE 2440 (4 Ethernets) is $349.
We have a lot of experience with the NUCs here. There is a version of this that can take a second (and even third) 1Gbps Ethernet port. http://imgur.com/ICrxCUH (Sorry, I don't have an example of that setup at home.) We use them for network ... load testing.
