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    CoDel - How to use

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Traffic Shaping
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    • H
      Harvy66
      last edited by

      Yeah, the whole point of managing bufferbloat is your firewall needs to be the chokepoint, and if your internet connection's rate varies too much, you can get bloat spikes.

      My limited understanding of the bufferbloat problem and some technologies is DOCSIS and DSL don't use native Ethernet which cause them to do some strange batching or fragmenting of your packets. This reduces the efficiently and makes for strange bursts in speeds. The bufferbloat forumns are constantly discussing how to properly emulate how DSL and DOCSIS work in an attempt to artificially create the same bottlenecks in the firewall, which allows better management of bufferbloat.

      All of that being said, you need to set your bandwidth to be less than your peak, and losing some bandwidth is part of the cost of getting rid of bufferbloat when your ISP doesn't manage it for you.

      Personally, I have a 100Mb connection and have my rates set to 99Mb and I get 1ms of bloat on average. But I seem to be a special case.

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      • T
        tuffcalc
        last edited by

        Gazoo - I noticed this too. If I put my full speed in pfsense it is as-if it lowers this amount so it is somewhat less (95%?) of the connection speed you enter for traffic shaping limit.

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        • H
          Harvy66
          last edited by

          95% is pretty decent. I see closer to about 97%.

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          • T
            tuffcalc
            last edited by

            @Harvy66:

            95% is pretty decent. I see closer to about 97%.

            Might be 97%, haven't looked in a while. In any event looks like the pfsense coders deliberately lower the speed you enter. Can anyone confirm?

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            • N
              Nullity
              last edited by

              I have turned to the dark-side and chose full bandwidth over best latency on my incoming traffic. The average latency increases to ~70ms (~10ms idle) during a link saturating download, but even with artificial throughput limiting I was reaching ~40ms. Addiction to throughput probably stems from years of dial-up… the experience still haunts me. :)

              The difference on uploads is huge though; ~600ms vs ~50ms.

              My ISP is the not-so-great-but-improving Windstream. I have wondered what other people experience on other ISPs and CPE.

              Please correct any obvious misinformation in my posts.
              -Not a professional; an arrogant ignoramous.

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              • H
                Harvy66
                last edited by

                Since I use HFSC even for download traffic shaping, I can make sure Netflix/Youtube buffering is kept to a minimum. I pretty much can't tell the difference, even when using P2P and saturating the downstream.

                I have 100Mb with a 2:1 ratio between Normal:Low. P2P will be sitting around 97Mb, then I start of Netflix and I pretty much immediately see P2P drop down to ~32Mb/s and Netflix pushes through ~64Mb/s. Even with DSLReports, I still see an A/A+ during the download test. But if P2P is using 0 and DSLReports is using max, and suddenly P2P jumps up to 33, the bufferbloat can get bad, like C/D, but that's because available bandwidth is decreasing instead of increasing and I'm still stuck with regular CoDel and not fq_CoDel.

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                • N
                  Nullity
                  last edited by

                  CoDel's default "target/interval" values should be fixed in 2.2.3. Dave mentioned earlier that the "target" is pretty good at dynamically adjusting, so the fix probably has little effect in that area.

                  The "interval" is more vital and is noted in the IETF draft as being the only parameter that is required for CoDel to to function, so perhaps changing from  a value of 5ms to a more optimal value of 100ms will improve our CoDel experience. :)

                  Disappointingly, I tried loading up a CODELQ queue in 2.2.3, and I still got the old values… Either the install needs to be fresh or my patch is shit and needs more work. See if it is fixed on any of your 2.2.3 setups.

                  Please correct any obvious misinformation in my posts.
                  -Not a professional; an arrogant ignoramous.

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                  • H
                    Harvy66
                    last edited by

                    I wonder how it'll affect my bufferbloat. Right now I have about 1ms, but it can burst quite high given enough TCP streams growing at the same time.

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                    • K
                      kieranc
                      last edited by

                      @Nullity:

                      CoDel's default "target/interval" values should be fixed in 2.2.3. Dave mentioned earlier that the "target" is pretty good at dynamically adjusting, so the fix probably has little effect in that area.

                      The "interval" is more vital and is noted in the IETF draft as being the only parameter that is required for CoDel to to function, so perhaps changing from  a value of 5ms to a more optimal value of 100ms will improve our CoDel experience. :)

                      Disappointingly, I tried loading up a CODELQ queue in 2.2.3, and I still got the old values… Either the install needs to be fresh or my patch is shit and needs more work. See if it is fixed on any of your 2.2.3 setups.

                      I did a fresh install of 2.2.3 and the target/interval are still inverted.

                      [2.2.3-RELEASE][admin@pfSense.localdomain]/root: pfctl -vs queue | grep -i codel
altq on em0 codel( target 50 interval 5) bandwidth 600Kb tbrsize 1500 
altq on em1 codel( target 50 interval 5) bandwidth 6Mb tbrsize 6000
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                      • N
                        Nullity
                        last edited by

                        @kieranc:

                        @Nullity:

                        CoDel's default "target/interval" values should be fixed in 2.2.3. Dave mentioned earlier that the "target" is pretty good at dynamically adjusting, so the fix probably has little effect in that area.

                        The "interval" is more vital and is noted in the IETF draft as being the only parameter that is required for CoDel to to function, so perhaps changing from  a value of 5ms to a more optimal value of 100ms will improve our CoDel experience. :)

                        Disappointingly, I tried loading up a CODELQ queue in 2.2.3, and I still got the old values… Either the install needs to be fresh or my patch is shit and needs more work. See if it is fixed on any of your 2.2.3 setups.

                        I did a fresh install of 2.2.3 and the target/interval are still inverted.

                        [2.2.3-RELEASE][admin@pfSense.localdomain]/root: pfctl -vs queue | grep -i codel
altq on em0 codel( target 50 interval 5) bandwidth 600Kb tbrsize 1500 
altq on em1 codel( target 50 interval 5) bandwidth 6Mb tbrsize 6000

                        Fudge…

                        Thank you for letting me know. I will get them to revert my commits.

                        How can a little fix be so illusive?

                        Why must you be so confusing, pfSense-tools!?

                        Please correct any obvious misinformation in my posts.
                        -Not a professional; an arrogant ignoramous.

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                        • K
                          kieranc
                          last edited by

                          @Nullity:

                          @kieranc:

                          @Nullity:

                          CoDel's default "target/interval" values should be fixed in 2.2.3. Dave mentioned earlier that the "target" is pretty good at dynamically adjusting, so the fix probably has little effect in that area.

                          The "interval" is more vital and is noted in the IETF draft as being the only parameter that is required for CoDel to to function, so perhaps changing from  a value of 5ms to a more optimal value of 100ms will improve our CoDel experience. :)

                          Disappointingly, I tried loading up a CODELQ queue in 2.2.3, and I still got the old values… Either the install needs to be fresh or my patch is shit and needs more work. See if it is fixed on any of your 2.2.3 setups.

                          I did a fresh install of 2.2.3 and the target/interval are still inverted.

                          [2.2.3-RELEASE][admin@pfSense.localdomain]/root: pfctl -vs queue | grep -i codel
altq on em0 codel( target 50 interval 5) bandwidth 600Kb tbrsize 1500 
altq on em1 codel( target 50 interval 5) bandwidth 6Mb tbrsize 6000

                          Fudge…

                          Thank you for letting me know. I will get them to revert my commits.

                          How can a little fix be so illusive?

                          Why must you be so confusing, pfSense-tools!?

                          It looks like you're doing it right but the patch hasn't been merged. I've created a pull request on github to do the same thing, let's see what happens

                          Do you know why the current codel_alloc(100, 5, 0) results in values of target 50 interval 5? target 5 interval 50 would be better but I dunno where the value of 50 is coming from.

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                          • D
                            doktornotor Banned
                            last edited by

                            Was never fixed AFAICT? https://redmine.pfsense.org/issues/4692

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                            • K
                              kieranc
                              last edited by

                              @doktornotor:

                              Was never fixed AFAICT? https://redmine.pfsense.org/issues/4692

                              Indeed, has anyone tried the patch? I don't really want to have to build pfsense in order to test it, that's a lot of repos to clone…

                              edit: PR has been merged, new values should be applied in 2.2.4 or anything built from here on...

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                              • H
                                Harvy66
                                last edited by

                                I wish  this could be set via config instead of compile time. One problem at a time though, ehh?

                                50/5 seems to be working well for me right now. I guess I'll see how my bufferbloat is affected once this change finally makes it. I'm getting 0ms of bufferbloat and full throughput already. According to DSLReports, my bloat can spike, but rarely. More of an issue when doing 32 upload streams.

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                                • N
                                  Nullity
                                  last edited by

                                  @doktornotor:

                                  Was never fixed AFAICT? https://redmine.pfsense.org/issues/4692

                                  https://github.com/pfsense/pfsense-tools/commit/3108a902bd816036a3abffd3ec669767140891a7

                                  I dunno. I am unsure of many things. :(

                                  I probably should have updated the redmine submission. The redmine patch was a initial code to show what I had found, hooefulky to help a dev pinpoint the problem.

                                  The github patches were the best I could do, but I should probably stop trying to patch pfSense considering that I cannot build pfSense to test my code. :(

                                  Please correct any obvious misinformation in my posts.
                                  -Not a professional; an arrogant ignoramous.

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                                  • K
                                    kieranc
                                    last edited by

                                    So this is from the latest nightly:

                                    [2.2.4-DEVELOPMENT][admin@pfSense.localdomain]/root: pfctl -vs queue
altq on em0 codel( target 50 interval 100) bandwidth 600Kb tbrsize 1500

                                    Interval successfully changed, now we just have to figure out where the target of 50 is coming from….

                                    Edit: I just set the 'queue limit' to 25 in the GUI and my target is now 25.... Victory?

                                    Edit2: From 2.2.4 19/07/2015 nightly, with queue limit set to 5:

                                    [2.2.4-DEVELOPMENT][admin@pfSense.localdomain]/root: pfctl -vs queue
altq on em1 codel( target 5 interval 100) bandwidth 6Mb tbrsize 6000 
  [ pkts:         85  bytes:       9938  dropped pkts:      0 bytes:      0 ]
  [ qlength:   0/ 50 ]

                                    So it wasn't anything I did yesterday that fixed it, but it does seem to be fixed/workable in 2.2.4

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                                    • N
                                      Nullity
                                      last edited by

                                      If qlimit is 0, it defaults to 50, and codel gets the (initial?) target value from qlimit.

                                      Please correct any obvious misinformation in my posts.
                                      -Not a professional; an arrogant ignoramous.

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                                      • K
                                        kieranc
                                        last edited by

                                        @Nullity:

                                        If qlimit is 0, it defaults to 50, and codel gets the (initial?) target value from qlimit.

                                        is qlimit the queue length, or something else entirely?

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                                        • N
                                          Nullity
                                          last edited by

                                          @kieranc:

                                          @Nullity:

                                          If qlimit is 0, it defaults to 50, and codel gets the (initial?) target value from qlimit.

                                          is qlimit the queue length, or something else entirely?

                                          qlimit is the queue length which becomes useless when codel is axtive, since codel dynamically controls queue length (AQM).

                                          Please correct any obvious misinformation in my posts.
                                          -Not a professional; an arrogant ignoramous.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • K
                                            kieranc
                                            last edited by

                                            @Nullity:

                                            @kieranc:

                                            @Nullity:

                                            If qlimit is 0, it defaults to 50, and codel gets the (initial?) target value from qlimit.

                                            is qlimit the queue length, or something else entirely?

                                            qlimit is the queue length which becomes useless when codel is axtive, since codel dynamically controls queue length (AQM).

                                            So when using codel the 'queue limit' setting seems to change the target instead… handy, but not very obvious..
                                            Thanks!

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