Home Router Recommendation

jahonix

…my dream of an advanced smart home...

That are surely devices you want separated from your LAN.

whosmatt

Thanks. I thought it was overkill, too. I didn't understand why that was the go-to option. Is there some reason that it is?

If that 84w one is okay, how would the 60w be? Plenty of power support it has, plus perhaps more efficient with the power draw not being so incredibly low.

I'm no electrical engineer, but my understanding is that commodity power supplies are more efficient when not running near their rated capacity. For example, I've had an 800W PSU draw ~1100 watts from the wall while delivering its rated output, and around 900 watts when the load was reduced just a bit. I suspect heat is a big factor. I doubt a few watts really matters here though. My instinct says to figure your system's draw and size your power supply to deliver that with a 33% margin or so.

edwardwong

PSU we used nowadays mostly "switching regulator" (at least for PC PSUs), conversion efficiency will be higher when you are getting close to the specified rating, if you are consuming power far below the spec, the conversion efficiency will be relatively low.

@whosmatt:

@Iceman24:

Thanks. I thought it was overkill, too. I didn't understand why that was the go-to option. Is there some reason that it is?

If that 84w one is okay, how would the 60w be? Plenty of power support it has, plus perhaps more efficient with the power draw not being so incredibly low.

I'm no electrical engineer, but my understanding is that commodity power supplies are more efficient when not running near their rated capacity. For example, I've had an 800W PSU draw ~1100 watts from the wall while delivering its rated output, and around 900 watts when the load was reduced just a bit. I suspect heat is a big factor. I doubt a few watts really matters here though. My instinct says to figure your system's draw and size your power supply to deliver that with a 33% margin or so.

whosmatt

@edwardwong:

PSU we used nowadays mostly "switching regulator" (at least for PC PSUs), conversion efficiency will be higher when you are getting close to the specified rating, if you are consuming power far below the spec, the conversion efficiency will be relatively low.

That's good to know. My limited (but documented) experience was with cheaper hardware. I've been told that the particular PSU I was using is not truly capable of delivering the stated output, but it did for me, at the expense of a lot of heat and very high power draw from the wall.

I suppose the takeaway from this is that quality matters, and that you can't take manufacturers ratings for granted.

Iceman24

Well, I'm only figuring a 15-20 watt usage of power. I couldn't see it ever getting about 30w, really, at max, from what I can gather. So the 60w seemed like more than enough and I didn't want to waste any power or money on something that was still overkill.

Hakker

Just a heads up it seems that the 2558 boards are running EOL possibly the 2758 also now that the xeons 15x8 are there.
I tried to buy one and after 3 weeks my delivery status went from 2-3 days to 10+ days to unknown and no other stores selling the 2558.

dreamslacker

@whosmatt:

I'm no electrical engineer, but my understanding is that commodity power supplies are more efficient when not running near their rated capacity. For example, I've had an 800W PSU draw ~1100 watts from the wall while delivering its rated output, and around 900 watts when the load was reduced just a bit. I suspect heat is a big factor. I doubt a few watts really matters here though. My instinct says to figure your system's draw and size your power supply to deliver that with a 33% margin or so.

PSUs when certified for power efficiency only need to meet certain targets at 20%, 50%, and 100% capacity loading.
A regular core i5 (or Xeon equivalent), with 1 mechanical drive typically draws about 40-50W at near idle (which is what you'd expect from a pfSense box without much going on). So in theory, you'd want a PSU rated at 250W or lower when you power a rig like this.

When your power draw is below 20% of the PSU rating, that's where you find the greatest impact - mostly because the base power draw to run the components factor in significantly at that kind of loading.

Your best bet, if it's that important to reduce the power losses, is actually to run a DC-DC PSU like a PicoPSU and a high efficiency 12V adapter.

edwardwong

I don't think so, DC-DC PicoPSU is also a kind of switching regulator, just like what I mentioned before, the efficiency will be somewhat lower when your output is far below from the designated load.

@dreamslacker:

@whosmatt:

I'm no electrical engineer, but my understanding is that commodity power supplies are more efficient when not running near their rated capacity. For example, I've had an 800W PSU draw ~1100 watts from the wall while delivering its rated output, and around 900 watts when the load was reduced just a bit. I suspect heat is a big factor. I doubt a few watts really matters here though. My instinct says to figure your system's draw and size your power supply to deliver that with a 33% margin or so.

PSUs when certified for power efficiency only need to meet certain targets at 20%, 50%, and 100% capacity loading.
A regular core i5 (or Xeon equivalent), with 1 mechanical drive typically draws about 40-50W at near idle (which is what you'd expect from a pfSense box without much going on). So in theory, you'd want a PSU rated at 250W or lower when you power a rig like this.

When your power draw is below 20% of the PSU rating, that's where you find the greatest impact - mostly because the base power draw to run the components factor in significantly at that kind of loading.

Your best bet, if it's that important to reduce the power losses, is actually to run a DC-DC PSU like a PicoPSU and a high efficiency 12V adapter.

Iceman24

Not that it makes much of a difference, but I'm going to go with the Kingston Technology ValueRAM 4GB 1333MHz DDR3L PC3-10600 ECC CL9 SR x8 1.35V SODIMM Notebook Memory KVR13LSE9S8/4 instead of the CL11 1600MHz variety. Seems CL9 1333MHz would be faster anyways, plus it's cheaper.

Will do the EDAC 60w as well, since I won't go near 60w at full load.

Supermicro Mini ITX A1SRI-2558F: $243 (http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-A1RI25)
8GB Kit of ECC RAM: $48 (https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Technology-ValueRAM-PC3-10600-KVR13LSE9S8/dp/B00CLBJOQW)
128GB Crucial M4 SSD: $30
M350 Case: $40
EDAC 12v 5a 60w Power Adapter: $15 (http://www.mini-box.com/60w-12v-5A-AC-DC-Power-Adapter)
Female to Female Molex to SATA Cable: $6 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001CSIPA6/ref=cm_sw_su_dp)
P4 to DC Jack Cable: $5 (http://www.mini-box.com/P4-DC-Jack-Cable)
=$387

Ordering time probably not that far off. :-)

Not that it makes much of a difference, but I'm going to go with the Kingston Technology ValueRAM 4GB 1333MHz DDR3L PC3-10600 ECC CL9 SR x8 1.35V SODIMM Notebook Memory KVR13LSE9S8/4 instead of the CL11 1600MHz variety. Seems CL9 1333MHz would be faster anyways, plus it's cheaper.

Before you are realizing that, please read that thread here on Reddit about RAM and GBit/s WAN speed
on pfSense, please read the comments from the person named "gonzopancho" carefully about this point.
Gigabit routing hardware

Iceman24

@BlueKobold:

Before you are realizing that, please read that thread here on Reddit about RAM and GBit/s WAN speed
on pfSense, please read the comments from the person named "gonzopancho" carefully about this point.
Gigabit routing hardware

Interesting. Thank you. 1600 Mhz it is. :-)

dreamslacker

@edwardwong:

I don't think so, DC-DC PicoPSU is also a kind of switching regulator, just like what I mentioned before, the efficiency will be somewhat lower when your output is far below from the designated load.

It's a lot better than if you use a conventional supply. It's a bit difficult to explain the intricacies of it all (especially once you involve double-forward regulation and such) but it's built to actually handle low loads and you're more likely to be in the 'efficient' region by virtue of the fact that the PicoPSU is rated at much lower power ratings.

For example, if you had a system that needs 30W and you use a 300W PSU, you are at <20% loading. A PicoPSU would start at 60W where your loading is 50% and even if you go up to the 120W model, you are still at 25%.

As mentioned, most PSUs are certified for their 80+ ratings only at 20%, 50%, and 100% load. Drop below 20% load and there are no guarantees on the efficiency anymore.