Discovery across vlans

Derelict

No discovery there. Everything there looks normal.

mtk

@derelict said in Discovery across vlans:

No discovery there. Everything there looks normal.

also the broken XML?

	HTTP/1.1 200 OK
	CONTENT-TYPE: text/xml;charset="utf-8"
	CONTENT-LENGTH: 3139
	
	<?xml version="1.0"?>
	<root
	  xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:device-1-0"
	  xmlns:ms=" urn:microsoft-com:wmc-1-0"
	  xmlns:smsc="www.smsc.com"
	  xmlns:qq="http://www.tencent.com"
	  xmlns:pnpx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/windows/pnpx/2005/11"
	  xmlns:df="http://schemas.microsoft.com/windows/2008/09/devicefoundation">
		<specVersion>
			<major>1</major>
			<minor>0</minor>
		</specVersion>
		<device>
			<dlna:X_DLNADOC xmlns:dlna="urn:schemas-dlna-org:device-1-0">DMR-1.50</dlna:X_DLNADOC>
			<pnpx:X_compatibleId[!http]

BTW, This is when trying to manually tell the Marantz APP to find the device (by IP).

Derelict

I don't know how much we are going to be able to help you here.

mtk

@derelict said in Discovery across vlans:

I don't know how much we are going to be able to help you here.

I found this in the States:

VL30_CLR	udp	192.168.30.102:52241 -> 239.255.250.250:9131	NO_TRAFFIC:SINGLE	23 / 0	3 KiB / 0 B

(this is the IP of the Marantz)

stephenw10

I assume 192.168.20.102 was the IP of the phone at that point?

If you entered the IP if the amp and there was two way traffic between them it's hard to say why it wouldn't show as available.

As Derelict says there may well be some installation instructions for operating across subnets. It's not that unusual.

Steve

mtk

@stephenw10 said in Discovery across vlans:

I assume 192.168.20.102 was the IP of the phone at that point?

Yes

If you entered the IP if the amp and there was two way traffic between them it's hard to say why it wouldn't show as available.

As Derelict says there may well be some installation instructions for operating across subnets. It's not that unusual.

Steve

And yet, nowhere to be found...

Derelict

Return the product? We are probably not going to be able to reverse-engineer whatever they are doing here.

If there was documentation on what they needed to have done we could probably make pfSense do that, but this guessing game is pretty futile.

jahonix

Which Marantz receiver do you have?

stephenw10

It looks like it relies on UPnP/DLNA which won't work across subnets, for auto discovery at least:

You can also try to manually enter the IP address of the Marantz unit in the app and try to connect then to the unit. If this works, your network configuration may block some UPnP ports necessary for browsing through media servers, detecting units, etc. We then recommend to check again if there is some device in your network environment (access point, repeater, router) that does not forward UPnP commands.

There are some 3rd party apps you could try.

Steve

mtk

@jahonix said in Discovery across vlans:

Which Marantz receiver do you have?

NR1504

@stephenw10 said in Discovery across vlans:

It looks like it relies on UPnP/DLNA which won't work across subnets, for auto discovery at least:

You can also try to manually enter the IP address of the Marantz unit in the app and try to connect then to the unit. If this works, your network configuration may block some UPnP ports necessary for browsing through media servers, detecting units, etc. We then recommend to check again if there is some device in your network environment (access point, repeater, router) that does not forward UPnP commands.

There are some 3rd party apps you could try.

Steve

Manually adding the IP to the Marantz APP also doesn't work, and that is actually the only way I see some sort of traffic from my phone to the Marantz.

I have a Mikrotik switch between the Wireless AP (which my phone connects to) and the Marantz (which is connected via LAN).
Might it be that it's blocked there somehow?

Derelict

Again, reverse engineering this issue without documentation as to what it is doing is probably not going to happen here. Maybe someone who has the same gear and got it working will chime in.

jahonix

@mtk Reading the online help system from Denon/Marantz I only found the obvious:

Did you update/upgrade the receiver's firmware to latest available?
Do you use a currently supported app (Marantz Consolette is 32bit and therefore incompatible from iOS11 onwards).

Marantz 64bit Apps are:

Marantz Remote App
Marantz HiFi Remote App
Marantz 2016 AVR Remote App

Audyssey MultEQ Editor App

HEOS App

But I also read: make sure all devices are on the same network which means Denon/Marantz support will not help with your setup either.

johnpoz

To be honest take your money elsewhere for such things. Why do these companies not get it that the age of flat networks in the home are at a end with the age of IOT and the need to segment devices with questionable security practices you can not just put everything on one flat network anymore.

jahonix

@johnpoz 99,9% of all Denon/Marantz users don't even know something like that exists (let alone what to use it for). They are happy as long as their network with the el-cheapo telco-AIO-router is working at all.

That's called a consumer.

mtk

@jahonix said in Discovery across vlans:

@mtk Reading the online help system from Denon/Marantz I only found the obvious:

Did you update/upgrade the receiver's firmware to latest available?

yes

Do you use a currently supported app (Marantz Consolette is 32bit and therefore incompatible from iOS11 onwards).

Marantz 64bit Apps are:
Marantz Remote App
Marantz HiFi Remote App
Marantz 2016 AVR Remote App

Audyssey MultEQ Editor App

HEOS App

I'm using Marantz Remote App on both iOS and Android and there is a equivalent Denon App that is exactly the same just diferent (darker) theme, and supports the Marantz.
Both were working "ok" before I made the split into VLANs.

But I also read: make sure all devices are on the same network which means Denon/Marantz support will not help with your setup either.

@johnpoz said in Discovery across vlans:

To be honest take your money elsewhere for such things. Why do these companies not get it that the age of flat networks in the home are at a end with the age of IOT and the need to segment devices with questionable security practices you can not just put everything on one flat network anymore.

well, I agree, but I'm not planning to buy a new receiver just to solve that...

@jahonix said in Discovery across vlans:

@johnpoz 99,9% of all Denon/Marantz users don't even know something like that exists (let alone what to use it for). They are happy as long as their network with the el-cheapo telco-AIO-router is working at all.

That's called a consumer.

well, I do... and I'm trying to solve it on the network level, because I agree that Marantz was never good in technical support (specially non-audio related stuff)
But @jahonix, I'm curious, do you know any receiver that doesn't (or won't) have similar issues?

BTW, all this still doesn't explain the inconsistent behaviour with Spotify Connect - working from the Macbooc and iPhone, but not the Android unless the Marantz is already playing (then I see it on my Android Spotify app)

jahonix

@mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

But @jahonix, I'm curious, do you know any receiver that doesn't (or won't) have similar issues?

Even though I do system integrations I do not know of such devices. Unless, maybe, they cost a fortune.
But to be fair, my work is primarily in the commercial and not the residential market.

JKnott

@jahonix said in Discovery across vlans:

@mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

But @jahonix, I'm curious, do you know any receiver that doesn't (or won't) have similar issues?

Even though I do system integrations I do not know of such devices. Unless, maybe, they cost a fortune.
But to be fair, my work is primarily in the commercial and not the residential market.

FWIW, I have a Yamaha A/V receiver that can be controlled by an Android app on my tablet or phone. However, it uses multicast, which is not normally passed by routers. So, I can control the receiver when I'm at home, but not elsewhere. I also wouldn't expect it to work on my test LAN that's on a different subnet.

stephenw10

To be fair they at least allow you enter an IP manually which is more than many other similar apps.

Curious that it still doesn't work even then.

You might be able to do something with IGMP proxy here but it's status with VLANs is not certain AFAIK.
It's marked solved but some people are still seeing issues. Might be user error though.
https://redmine.pfsense.org/issues/6099

Steve

mtk

@jknott said in Discovery across vlans:

@jahonix said in Discovery across vlans:

@mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

But @jahonix, I'm curious, do you know any receiver that doesn't (or won't) have similar issues?

Even though I do system integrations I do not know of such devices. Unless, maybe, they cost a fortune.
But to be fair, my work is primarily in the commercial and not the residential market.

FWIW, I have a Yamaha A/V receiver that can be controlled by an Android app on my tablet or phone. However, it uses multicast, which is not normally passed by routers. So, I can control the receiver when I'm at home, but not elsewhere. I also wouldn't expect it to work on my test LAN that's on a different subnet.

I'm not trying to access it from anywhere but my network, but yes expecting it to work from a different subnet.

@stephenw10 said in Discovery across vlans:

To be fair they at least allow you enter an IP manually which is more than many other similar apps.

Curious that it still doesn't work even then.

Let me repeat that - there are 2 issues probably (but not necessarily) related:

The Marantz App, does allow manual IP, but still cannot access the device (and also does not discover it automagically) - all attempts posted above (i.e packet capture) where done when trying to access the Marantz from the app, by its static ip.
Spotify Connect on the same Marantz, is not discovered by the Spotify app on my Android phone, but is from the Macbook or iPhone app!

You might be able to do something with IGMP proxy here but it's status with VLANs is not certain AFAIK.
It's marked solved but some people are still seeing issues. Might be user error though.
https://redmine.pfsense.org/issues/6099

Steve

This doesn't seem to work either, no matter what/how I set the up/downstreams.

johnpoz

Does your marantz allow you to put in a gateway? If not and you can put in the IP of the device you could source nat your traffic so the marantz thinks its being access from local IP, ie your pfsense IP in this subnet.

This is how you can access IP camera's for example that do not allow for a gateway. If the device is designed to only work on local network and not have any sort of internet access then it has no need for gateway.