How to get pfSense WAN to accept VLAN 0

natbart · Feb 7, 2021, 6:03 PM

Super frustrating! My Ubiquiti USG3 let me do it and then I got some great hardware (super excited) and got started on pfSense only to be stopped dead in my tracks because of this.

Want to get rid of the under powered USG3 but sinking hours into trying to understand how to get pfSense to work in this configuration is killing me.

The netgraph option sounds doable but it currently beyond my skill set and taking lots to wrap my head around what is required to get it implemented.

JKnott · Feb 7, 2021, 6:32 PM

@johnpoz

I can understand that some hardware doesn't support it properly, but that's no reason why pfsense shouldn't.

stephenw10 · Feb 7, 2021, 6:50 PM

I don't think you can do it freebsd unless I'm using the wrong incantation.

You can apply a priority tag to a vlan but you can't create a zero tagged vlan to apply it to.

@natbart Does your provider actually require a priority tag?

Steve

johnpoz · Feb 7, 2021, 6:59 PM

@jknott said in How to get pfSense WAN to accept VLAN 0:

but that's no reason why pfsense shouldn't.

Well depends - does freebsd support it? I think people sometimes forget pfsense runs freebsd.. Just like the wireless support. Not really a pfsense thing, its a freebsd thing..

And to be honest.. It's not a real common thing to do - not like a million users out there screaming I need to be able to set vlan 0 ;)

Looking to what unifi does, seems for some ATT bypass - the classic UI allows you to set it - most likely because they just didn't set restrictions.. But new UI of the controller seems to..

https://community.ui.com/questions/Using-VLAN-0-for-WAN-with-new-interface/fe455db8-0d3f-4fa4-8d27-0ee337d2cefe?page=0

btw.. In 30 some years I don't recall ever having to set this ever ;)

JKnott · Feb 7, 2021, 7:04 PM

@johnpoz said in How to get pfSense WAN to accept VLAN 0:

not like a million users out there screaming I need to be able to set vlan 0

What's that noise I hear?

IIRC, I was able to set it in Linux. My understanding for using it is to provide priority on the main LAN, but I don't know that you could have both tagged and untagged on the same LAN. I agree there's not a lot of call for it.

natbart · Feb 7, 2021, 8:14 PM

@stephenw10 not sure what to say... I am told it works on FreeBSD with Netgraph.

ATT users need to do this also to bypass their GATEWAY box. Their are definitely implementations or designs that require it.

Some users maybe just gave up and moved to other hardware that could accomplish it.

Wireshark shows packets tagged 802.1q with VLAN0 when my laptop was connected.

natbart · Feb 7, 2021, 8:21 PM

I’m just a guy interested in pfSense and not wanting to use Service Provider gateway (HH3000).

I guess I posted here hoping someone might have more experience with this scenario or problem.

I appreciate the dialog so far and hope maybe there is some solution that will make this work.

fresnoboy · Feb 7, 2021, 8:42 PM

@natbart

I do this with my AT&T fiber connection to get rid of the POS AT&T gateway.

BTW, another technique to deal with this VLAN0 silliness is to use a cheap switch to strip the VLAN0 from the WAN connection like the Netgear GS108Ev3 . The AT&T bypass thread here: https://forum.netgate.com/topic/99190/att-uverse-rg-bypass-0-2-btc/328 has all sorts of info on dealing with the VLAN0 problem that AT&T Fiber users have to deal with.

stephenw10 · Feb 7, 2021, 8:48 PM

There are some providers who require a priority tag on WAN but I've never seen that without a, valid, vlan tag.

Steve

natbart · Feb 7, 2021, 9:13 PM

@fresnoboy said in How to get pfSense WAN to accept VLAN 0:

Netgear GS108Ev3

I will continue to read the ATT bypass solutions. My service provider does not have all the WPA supplicant / certificate requirements that ATT users have, so was trying to distinguish the required element from that fix.

I have thought about putting a switch in the mix, but a Netgear GS108 is another $75 CDN on Amazon and adds another layer to the solution as well as cost.

What requirements does the switch need to solve my problem? Does it make more sense to throw on VMware and at least deal with one piece of hardware.

fresnoboy · Feb 7, 2021, 10:34 PM

@natbart

These switches are usually available on ebay or even Craigslist for a lot less. I'm not saying it's the best solution, but it works without having to run vmware, etc...

Good luck!

stephenw10 · Feb 7, 2021, 10:38 PM

Yeah, it should work with netgraph because there are no restrictions really. You can do whatever you want there unlike ifconfig.

It shouldn't be that hard either. Another think that uses it is QinQ. If you create a QinQ interface and then check in /tmp you can see the file with the netgraph commands used to create it.

Or indeed the example given here.

Steve

natbart · Feb 7, 2021, 10:44 PM

Running packet capture on the WAN port all I see is a DHCP discovery broadcast (by my unit) and a DHCP offer by provider which unit never responds to but causes it to put another Discover out there.

Offers are tagged:

802.1Q Virtual LAN, PRI: 7, DEI: 0, ID: 0

tquade · Feb 7, 2021, 11:12 PM

@natbart

A GS105NA can be had for around $45 on amazon.ca.

Ted

stephenw10 · Feb 7, 2021, 11:33 PM

If you didn't have to priority tag it on the USG you wonl't have to here.

This is going to be like a 5 line script but Netgraph always makes my brain hurt!
Just hitting errors right now....

natbart · Feb 8, 2021, 12:11 AM

@stephenw10 the only setting i set on the Unifi USG3 was "Use VLAN ID" and I set it to "0"

I was able to do a temp work around with a 24 port Cisco Small Business switch that I had and put it between ONT and pfSense. This allowed me to grab a DHCP address from provider and surf. Overkill solution.

Will continue to look at the netgraph option... as this seems like the cleanest option. I just need to wrap my head around how netgraph work and how to compile as I dont have a system running FreeBSD (outside of this pfSense box).

natbart · Feb 8, 2021, 4:46 AM

@stephenw10 will read up at provided link. Thank you for the continued engagement.

johnpoz · Feb 8, 2021, 4:50 AM

Just to point out - unifi doesn't make this as easy as made out to be..

They might support it on some versions of the controller software in some places - but like most applications 0 and 4095 are not really valid

Is there a feature request for this? If there are ISPs that want/need this - and freebsd allows for it, etc. I would expect if there was a feature request for it - it would/could be looked at implementing in the gui as a check box, or something.

But in 30 some years in the biz - sorry but setting vlan 0 is not a common thing.

natbart · Feb 8, 2021, 4:52 AM

@johnpoz having this as an option would be amazing. Would be simple than some of the other work arounds.

Hard to believe others haven’t asked for it based on ATT also needing it (amongst other config). Not used what other ISPs are similarly config’ed.

johnpoz · Feb 8, 2021, 4:56 AM

I haven't combed through redmine yet - but yeah if you want/need this - then it should be submitted to redmine as a feature request..

If it can be done, and there is desire for it - why would it not be implemented.

But to be honest - I do believe part of the reason for such a deployment would be making it harder for isp customers to use non isp hardware.. Since setting vlan id 0 is not really something that is common