PC Engines apu2 experiences

[kevindd992002]

For the APU2C4, why is it that when I have a serial cable connected between its serial port and a computer, its USB ports don't work? I have a UPS plugged in to one of its USB ports and I use the NUT package in pfsense. As soon as I connect to the hardware through the serial port (using putty), the USB port does not work. Unplugging the serial cable fixes the issue and that's why I know it's the one causing it. This is happening for both of my APU2C4 boxes.

[DaddyGo]

@kevindd992002 said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

connected between its serial port and a computer, its USB ports don't work?

Hmmmm, I haven't seen it yet, it is true we don't even connect to MOBO in this multiple way...

Have you tried to remove NUT? (of course temporarily)

[kevindd992002]

@daddygo said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

@kevindd992002 said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

connected between its serial port and a computer, its USB ports don't work?

Hmmmm, I haven't seen it yet, it is true we don't even connect to MOBO in this multiple way...

Have you tried to remove NUT? (of course temporarily)

I haven't yet but I see the usb disconnect message in the terminal itself so I figured it's a board issue. I also use the USB port only for NUT so removing it will be a moot point but I can still try for the sake of troubleshooting.

[DaddyGo]

@kevindd992002 said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

but I can still try for the sake of troubleshooting.

Sure

Would it be worth doing to rule out the SW/Code issue (on NUT) in the background...

The NUT is a strange animal anyway and sometimes difficult to get to work..

It also handles USB and RS232 stuff, so I guess that's where the rub is

[kevindd992002]

@daddygo said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

@kevindd992002 said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

but I can still try for the sake of troubleshooting.

Sure

Would it be worth doing to rule out the SW/Code issue (on NUT) in the background...

The NUT is a strange animal anyway and sometimes difficult to get to work..

It also handles USB and RS232 stuff, so I guess that's where the rub is

I already uninstalled NUT and I soon as I connected to the serial port, I still see the issue:

ugen0.2: <Unknown > at usbus0 (disconnected)

So this is definitely an APU2C4 issue. Can anyone try this?

[fireodo]

@kevindd992002 said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

So this is definitely an APU2C4 issue. Can anyone try this?

I dont have a APU2C4 (Only APU2C0) but I would suggest to try an older BIOS version.

[kevindd992002]

@fireodo said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

@kevindd992002 said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

So this is definitely an APU2C4 issue. Can anyone try this?

I dont have a APU2C4 (Only APU2C0) but I would suggest to try an older BIOS version.

I'm at v4.14.0.2 but this is not the first time I've tried this. I've tried this a year ago when it was still using an older BIOS version and it's the same issue.

[DaddyGo]

@kevindd992002 said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

4.14.0.2 but this is not the first time I've tried this

You say, this is the case on several boxes (MOBO)
(so no HW issue I think, some PCB schematics or BIOS)

Worth a question for him:
https://github.com/miczyg1

BTW:
I can't check it either, because we only use apu24d4

[kevindd992002]

@daddygo said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

@kevindd992002 said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

4.14.0.2 but this is not the first time I've tried this

You say, this is the case on several boxes (MOBO)
(so no HW issue I think, some PCB schematics or BIOS)

Worth a question for him:
https://github.com/miczyg1

BTW:
I can't check it either, because we only use apu24d4

Just created an issue:

https://github.com/pcengines/pcengines.github.io/issues/107

[VAMike]

@kevindd992002 using the serial port is pretty normal, and what you're describing is not at all common. I'd probably first make sure of the power supply (marginal power supplies cause all sorts of issues), then look at whether the serial cable is dodgy/shorted/etc.

[DaddyGo]

@vamike said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

what you're describing is not at all common

Hi,
we are not talking about just one unit, so this is not relevant advice now...
(marginal power supplies cause all sorts of issues), then look at whether the serial cable is dodgy/shorted/etc.)

by the way he is quite an experienced pcEngines user @kevindd992002

[kevindd992002]

@vamike said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

@kevindd992002 using the serial port is pretty normal, and what you're describing is not at all common. I'd probably first make sure of the power supply (marginal power supplies cause all sorts of issues), then look at whether the serial cable is dodgy/shorted/etc.

I know it's happening for two units and I'm using a power supply that I sourced from pcengines themselves. The only variable that I haven't eliminated is the serial cable that I'm using. I guess I can buy one of the good ones and try.

[VAMike]

@daddygo really? so you think "apu2 hardware generally doesn't work with serial and usb at the same time and up until now nobody ever noticed" is a likely thing?

[stephenw10]

Mmm, I would at least try a different cable.

Does it disconnect all usb devices when you connect the serial cable?

You may be creating a ground loop there since it's the UPS that is connected. Is the terminal device you're using also running from the UPS?

Steve

[kevindd992002]

@stephenw10 said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

Mmm, I would at least try a different cable.

Does it disconnect all usb devices when you connect the serial cable?

You may be creating a ground loop there since it's the UPS that is connected. Is the terminal device you're using also running from the UPS?

Steve

I only have one usb device plugged in, the UPS. I'm trying now to see if using the other USB port will fix the issue because I only ever see the ugen0.2 disconnect message in the terminal. If ugen0.1 is the other port, then I don't see it getting affected.

Is there a command that I can invoke in the pfsense shell to see which usb port is a device connected to?

Yes, the terminal I'm using is connected to the same UPS.

[DaddyGo]

@vamike said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

so you think "apu2 hardware generally doesn't work with serial and usb

hmmmm, ... no one assumed such a thing
just trying to figure out what is happening
while also having to "fumble" with ironic remarks

[stephenw10]

You can run usbconfig list to see info about the USB devices attached but it won't show the specific port only the bus.

But try just connecting anything, mouse, keyboard, data drive etc. Anything just to see if it also gets disconnected then the serial is attached.

Does it happen when you connect the serial cable if it isn't connected to the terminal client? That would almost certainly be the cable if so.

Steve

[VAMike]

@daddygo if you're trying to figure out what is happening the best thing to do is refrain from distracting commentary about what you think is "irrelevant"

@kevindd992002 if you got the two units at the same time I still wouldn't rule out wonky power supply as an issue. wall warts are notoriously unreliable, and I've seen >60% failure rates in the field (not DOA) from some batches in the past. those issues are complete PITA to debug because everything will work fine until the load reaches a certain point, then the PS can't keep up and weird things happen. much easier when they fail to the point that they melt, so the problem is obvious. trying different combinations of usb & serial is probably an easier place to start--throwing a thumb drive on with a serial console should work fine and is extremely well tested as a way to perform installs. if that doesn't work, definitely try a different serial cable and even a completely different serial source on the other end (e.g., try a different usb2serial converter on the machine you're using as a terminal). if it does work then you've narrowed down the source of the problem and it's neither serial nor usb generally, but that one specific usb device.

[DaddyGo]

@vamike said in PC Engines apu2 experiences:

the best thing to do is refrain from distracting commentary about what you think is "irrelevant"

hey buddy, leave it to those who know what they're doing, for example @stephenw10

[stephenw10]

Ok calm down! We are all trying to solve this problem.

Do not dismiss @VAMike. Review his old posts. You will see he knows what's what.

Steve