5 or 8 port switch recommendation - daisy-chained downstream from HP 1920



  • I have SG-3100 as router, with HP 1920-24G switch.  From there, two cable runs go to rooms with multiple devices: AppleTV, WAP, Sonos, TV, etc. and previously I have had unmanaged switches in each room.

    I'm implementing VLANs and need to change out those switches to something that can support VLAN.  I tried Netgear SG108Tv2 and after several days of problems and troubleshooting found out that they are not compatible with Sonos.

    https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/42

    Any suggestions for a replacement would be appreciated.  I have seen some threads on this forum talking about the TP-Link SG108E, with mixed reviews.


  • Galactic Empire

    I use 3 of these as I need POE scattered about the house and they work fine :-

    https://www.linksys.com/gb/p/P-LGS308P/

    Other people swear by the Cisco small buisness range.

    I wouldn't touch TP-Link with a barge pole :)

    Couldn't vouch for the Sonos issue BTW.

    Why not get HP switches if your happy with them ?


  • Rebel Alliance Global Moderator

    "SG108Tv2"

    Your switch is not on that list from sonos - your sg108T is smart switch, the switches they list the gs108v1 and v2 are DUMB switches..

    What exactly was not working with your sonos - just put them on the same layer 2 and they should be fine.



  • nog - thanks for the feedback on the TP-Link.  I did see some lower cost 8 port HP switches, I'll search again, if needed - possible fix below.

    john - my bad, I made a typo on the Netgear model, I meant GS108Tv2.  :-\ The Sonos list doesn't distinguish whether it's all GS108v2, or a specific model (GS108, GS108E and/or GS108T).  Given my problem (below) I assumed my model Netgear is included.

    My issue is that the Netgear switch works fine with my Ruckus AP and Apple TV connected, but when I connect the Sonos Connect (aka Bridge), I experience extreme latency across the LAN.

    So, Netgear just told me I need to enable STP on the switch and it will work.  I will give it a try this evening.  :D

    Further information, for anyone interested: https://en.community.sonos.com/troubleshooting-228999/sonos-and-the-spanning-tree-protocol-16973


  • Rebel Alliance Global Moderator

    Yeah if your sonos is on wifi and wired and it bridges that would cause big problem.  STP will block the port…


  • Galactic Empire

    @newberger:

    So, Netgear just told me I need to enable STP on the switch and it will work.  I will give it a try this evening.  :D

    Ewww why wouldn't it be enabled by default, the bunch of chumps.



  • Rebel Alliance Global Moderator

    I would assume not enabled by default because the admin of the network should configure it how they want.  Do they want RTP or RSTP?  Rare that a such small switch would be a root bridge, etc.  I would assume that many a users of such switches never even log into the gui and use it as just dumb switch.

    I could see someone else complaining WTF they have STP enabled out of the box default for? ;)

    You can never win… No matter what you do.



  • HP 1810-8 maybe?


  • Netgate

    Why wireless and wired on the sonos? Shouldn't it be one or the other?

    The easiest way to prevent layer 2 loops would be to not make the loop in the first place.



  • @Derelict:

    Why wireless and wired on the sonos? Shouldn't it be one or the other?

    The easiest way to prevent layer 2 loops would be to not make the loop in the first place.

    It's a mesh device, that's kind of the point.


  • Netgate

    Then only one or none should be connected to wired I would think.

    If they expect functioning STP on home networks they're in for a long, hard ride.



  • @Derelict:

    If they expect STP on home networks they're in for a long, hard ride.

    No, they need at least that the switch won't block their own STP from letting them figure out that they are looping. Most consumer dumb switches are ok for that–they don't understand the STP broadcasts and just pass them along like anything else. Where they run into problem is semi-smart switches that filter the STP broadcasts without actually participating in STP. My newer netgear has a "Forward BPDU while STP Disabled" option to at least control that behavior rather than silently (and unconditionally) dump them. On smarter switches you can fix that by turning on STP, but if a vendor has a semi-smart switch that knows enough about STP to not broadcast a BPDU but not enough to actually participate in STP (presumably so it can be sold at a different price point than the same ASIC with a different GUI) then you need a new switch or a new speaker system.

    They'll probably have fewer problems than google has run into trying to actually use multicast in the chromecast. It's amazing how many ways vendors can find to screw that up.



  • When using a SONOS bridge all other devices must reside on their own WLAN mesh. No Playbar etc. may be connected with an ethernet cable or other WIFI.

    That's what is so bad about their design: having to use their self "managed" mesh WLAN network in a usually crowded HF environment.

    But since everybody but me (and three others…) uses SONOS it has to be great...



  • @jahonix:

    But since everybody but me uses SONOS it has to be great…

    I find it hard to believe that "everybody" puts thousands of dollars into home speakers.



  • ::)
    Did I mention that I even sell this stuff to clients? Still don't like it, though. Want one?  :P


  • Rebel Alliance Global Moderator

    I find it hard to believe that "everybody" puts thousands of dollars into home speakers.

    There are people where spending $1000 on their speakers is like you and me spending $100… Cost is always relative.. There are many more where it would be like you spending $1 on speakers for your house...



  • @johnpoz:

    I find it hard to believe that "everybody" puts thousands of dollars into home speakers.

    There are people where spending $1000 on their speakers is like you and me spending $100… Cost is always relative.. There are many more where it would be like you spending $1 on speakers for your house...

    Sure, and that's pretty much "everybody", right?


  • Rebel Alliance Global Moderator

    No it is not everybody - but its way more people then people think.. which was my point… They sell a shitton of them ;) So yeah lots and lots of people have them. No its not everyone.. But its enough that they are very very common and you will see them in many homes you go to...



  • Oh come on, you know how "everybody" was meant.

    @johnpoz:

    But its enough that they are very very common

    So much so that even Crestron (as my preferred control system / AV distribution vendor) offers them to their US dealers. It's the only 3rd party device they ever sold in their 40 or so years history.
    (Except for one pre-configured Dell server and some OEM/ODM devices)

    SONOS is massive in the market. The only real contender was SlimDevices with their SqueezeBoxes. After being bought by Logitech they borked the productline and shut it down shortly after.



  • Well, for me, Sonos was the most cost effective system to provide multi-room audio with multiple sources and independent room output in an existing home.  Some areas are accessible via wire, but others had to be wireless.  YMMV

    Back to the Netgear switch: enabling STP did not fix the problem.  I'm looking at ordering the HP 1820-8G, currently $80 on NewEgg as a replacement.



  • How many SONOS devices do you have and which of them are connected by copper?

    I'm not convinced that a different switch will solve your problems. Start with the bridge and one Play-device while the others are shut down. Add one at a time until your problem reappears.



  • jahonix - I have 4 that are directly wired to the HP switch and 3 that attach to the Sonos 'mesh' wireless network (separate from home wifi) - and then the Connect unit that is attached to the second switch. Everything works fine with the 4 wired to the switch and the Connect not attached.

    The 3 wireless units are on the edge of the range of the 4 wired units (they still transmit the wireless signal), so the Connect, which is about halfway in between, provides a better wireless connection.

    You may be right and I suppose I don't have to have the Connect wired to the second switch, but it's the way I have always had it configured.  If the HP 1810 doesn't work, I will try setting it up as wireless-only.  It took me several days of troubleshooting to determine that the Sonos unit was causing the problems, so I'm just interested in seeing if I can get it working correctly (wired).



  • @newberger:

    … the 4 wired units (they still transmit the wireless signal)

    THAT is your packet storm problem saturating the channel.

    @newberger:

    so I'm just interested in seeing if I can get it working correctly (wired).

    AFAIK you either go wired OR wireless with a single bridge inbetween segments. No other unit than the bridge is supposed to be dual-linked (or one device like a Playbar acting as bridge).
    Simply relying on (R)STP is bad by design and obviously doesn't work.

    The inability to configure the SONOS-Mesh to client's needs is what I really dislike about their philosophy.



  • @newberger:

    Well, for me, Sonos was the most cost effective system to provide multi-room audio with multiple sources and independent room output in an existing home.  Some areas are accessible via wire, but others had to be wireless.  YMMV

    Back to the Netgear switch: enabling STP did not fix the problem.  I'm looking at ordering the HP 1820-8G, currently $80 on NewEgg as a replacement.

    I’m not sure it’ll solve your issue but I have a fairly complex home network with pfSense as the firewall, an HP 1920-48G switch as the core, and Ubiquiti UniFi access points for WiFi.  Each room in the home has a switch - some are little 5-port HP 1410’s all the way up to an 1810-24G in the main media area.

    Some of my Sonos devices are hard-wired (4x Connects driving the outdoors, as well as the TV Playbars) and some are wireless (Play:1’s and Play:5’s, plus Subs.). We’re using SonosNet, no bridge or anything.

    All is working together absolutely splendidly.  I didn’t have to adjust my STP on the switches - everything is passing along fine.

    It’s a clean, solid setup.  Strongly recommend the HPE switches; they seem to work just great with Sonos.

    I don’t even have issues with my TiVo devices, and those are just as finicky - if not more so - than Sonos.



  • dmurphy - thanks.  I have a couple HP 1810-8G coming in and will test this weekend.  Are all of your wired Sonos connected to the HP 1920-48G, or are some connected to the other 'room' switches?



  • Update - I finally had a chance to try the HP 1810-8G and it works great with the Sonos Connect, no configuration changes needed.



  • @newberger:

    Update - I finally had a chance to try the HP 1810-8G and it works great with the Sonos Connect, no configuration changes needed.

    Excellent, good as a reference for everyone who might run in to this issue later on as well.



  • @newberger:

    dmurphy - thanks.  I have a couple HP 1810-8G coming in and will test this weekend.  Are all of your wired Sonos connected to the HP 1920-48G, or are some connected to the other 'room' switches?

    My apologies for getting back to you so late!  I totally missed this reply.

    My Sonos devices are all over the network - some to the "core" 1920-48G, and a bunch to other switches in the LAN as well.  No issues whatsoever.  Workin' like a champ!



  • dmurphy - thanks for the reply.  I was about to post an update and am curious how you managed with your HP switch setup.

    I was premature on posting that the 1810 worked without any configuration.  It turns out that STP was enabled on the 1920 by default and I had to manually enable it on the 1810.  This worked, but when I reviewed the Sonos logs, it wasn't working as expected - for example, it was using sonos mesh when a wired connection existed.

    First, I had to tell the 1920 to use 802.1d-1998 path costs and use STP 'mode' (not RSTP).

    More importantly, the 1810 doesn't correctly set STP Path Costs when the STP 802.1d (legacy) mode is selected - it continues to use the 802.1w path costs and you have to manually set the path costs for ports that (1) connect the switch to the primary 'core' switch (path cost = 4) and (2) to ports that are connected to a sonos unit (path cost = 19).

    After relevant ports on all switches are using the old path costs, the sonos logs and matrix show that all the devices are working as expected - using wired when available and sonos mesh when required.

    I had read a number of guides that said you need to disable sonos mesh on any unit that is wired to a switch, but that is not true.

    Hope this helps anyone trying to configure sonos with managed switches (and happen to be looking for help in the pfSense forum)  :D.  As a side benefit, I learned a lot about STP over the past couple weeks!



  • I have a HP-1820 "Backbone" , and my favourite (cheap & slim) manageable switch is the D-Link DGS-1100-08.
    I have 9 of them now.

    I have a few Linksys LGS-308's too.
    But they're almost 2 x the D-Link price ($35) , and i don't use the Linksys features ie. 802.1x in most of the places.

    Even the 1100-08 can do RSTP , only "quirk" i have seen on the D-Links , are that they tend to "loose" their dhcp address.
    So use a static ip for mgmt.

    /Bingo


  • Netgate

    +1 on the DGS-1100-08. I have two or three.

    I also saw a quirk in a DGS-1210-10P. Accessing the web gui same-subnet fails to load properly/consistently. Accessing it from another subnet so the traffic is out the management default gateway works fine. Weird.

    But other than that it powers a couple phones and an AP and carries all my traffic just fine from my desk over an LACP on the SFP ports to my "core" (lol) switch.

    LIGHT YEARS better than the HUGE, STEAMING PILE OF EXCREMENT that is the Netgear GS108PE it replaced.



  • @Derelict:

    I also saw a quirk in a DGS-1210-10P. Accessing the web gui same-subnet fails to load properly/consistently. Accessing it from another subnet so the traffic is out the management default gateway works fine. Weird.

    I experienced somewhat the same, configuring an 1100-08 yesterday.
    After moving the mgmt vlan to the "final" vlan , i got a "White screen" , even after several refreshes etc. (Using firefox)
    No hangs or errors , so the 1100-08 was answering on http.

    I didn't want to shutdown FF , so just opened a Chromium (Linux Chrome) , and entered the samme ip that gave white screen in FF.
    Everything was ok in Chromium.

    After (saving the new mgmt vlan change to flashcfg) , and a a reload of the 1100-08 … FF was ok too  ???

    /Bingo


 

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