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    New GPS for NTP server

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    • peteP
      pete
      last edited by pete

      Did do a short write up on another forum a while ago. The easiest part of this endeavor was soldering for the PPS signal.

      Original documentation used is located here for Sure GPS.

      hxxps://satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm

      PFSense computer:

      qotomcomputer.jpg

      This was done for a family member. Doing another one here to replace my current PFSense box with 6 Intel Gb ports. This box should fit nicely inside of my Leviton Media panel (42"). Do a primary ISP connection here with a cellular modem failover. (network and phone line).

      Parts list:

      1 - GPS with PPS for time sync via serial port

      GPS with RS-232 with PPS - NEO-8M GPS Satellite Positioning Module for Arduino STM32 C51 $7.49 (Ebay)
      GPS3.jpg

      2 - GPS Antenna (optional)
      gpsantenna.jpg

      3 - TTL to RS-232 converter Amazon ($7.00)
      GPS2.jpg

      PPS configuration. Plug in to PPS pin on GPS and solder other side to RS-232 pin #1.

      GPS1.jpg

      4 - USB datablocker for powering up the GPS -

      Programming to the GPS is done via U-Blox software via USB cable which provides power and a serial connection to GPS.

      Download U-Center for Windows programming tool here:

      hxxps://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/u-centersetup_v19.06.zip

      ucenter.jpg

      U-Center user guide:

      hxxps://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/u-center_UserGuide_%28UBX-13005250%29.pdf

      By default the GPS will output both on the USB port and Serial port. You can see both by using a USB to Serial device.

      Will post configurations and screens. It is only 3-4 adjustments.

      • Pete

      Auto mater
      23.09.1-RELEASE (amd64)
      built on Mon Dec 11 12:24:00 CST 2023
      FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT
      PFSense + Qotom - Master
      PFSense + Jetway - Backup
      PFSense + Jetway - Backup
      PFSense + Generic - Backup

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • chpalmerC
        chpalmer
        last edited by

        @pete said in New GPS for NTP server:

        NEO-8M GPS Satellite Positioning Module for Arduino

        I have U-blox already due a dongle I have.. Nice to know.

        The pfsense widget though?? Is that automagically or did you make any changes?

        Thank Pete!

        Triggering snowflakes one by one..
        Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4590T CPU @ 2.00GHz on an M400 WG box.

        peteP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • peteP
          pete @chpalmer
          last edited by pete

          For PFSense you need to utilize a serial to TTL device and add a PPS line.

          The PFSense NTP serial settings are there and it did work out of the box until I tinkered with the programming software.

          I used a USB data blocker for powering the device.

          GPS ==> TTL to RS232 plus PPS ==> computer RS-232 port
          ==> USB ==> data blocker ==> PFSense computer USB port for power.

          Here is a splat of images for the configuration that I used and saved to the GPS.
          It gets a bit confusing as there are many settings. You just have to remember to send the settings to the GPS and save the configuration to the GPS so that it survives a reboot.

          Note changed the boot up baud rate to 4800 as I was using 19200 and it did not always work on reboot of PFSense box.

          gpsconfig.jpg

          • Pete

          Auto mater
          23.09.1-RELEASE (amd64)
          built on Mon Dec 11 12:24:00 CST 2023
          FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT
          PFSense + Qotom - Master
          PFSense + Jetway - Backup
          PFSense + Jetway - Backup
          PFSense + Generic - Backup

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          • N
            nateliv
            last edited by

            This post is deleted!
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            • peteP
              pete
              last edited by

              Initially when I installed the Sure GPS I put it in the attic of a two story home. Used a cat5e wire with RS-232 ends to it going to the basement "server room". Recently moved it such that it faced a basement window facing the south east. For setting up this GPS just had the antenna next to a door which faced south east and it worked great.

              • Pete

              Auto mater
              23.09.1-RELEASE (amd64)
              built on Mon Dec 11 12:24:00 CST 2023
              FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT
              PFSense + Qotom - Master
              PFSense + Jetway - Backup
              PFSense + Jetway - Backup
              PFSense + Generic - Backup

              peteP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • peteP
                pete @pete
                last edited by

                Noticed now with newest version of PFSense my U-Blox GPS with PPS receiver no longer posts geo position and number of satellites. Not sure why as the sentences coming from the GPS are fine.

                Switched over configuration to generic GPS and while it works I do not see the geoposition / number of satellites.

                I originally posted my U-Blox configuration and results in PFSense of it working.

                Any one else have this issue?

                My Sure GPS with PPS continues to work fine. IE: newest PFSense box is in house #2.

                • Pete

                Auto mater
                23.09.1-RELEASE (amd64)
                built on Mon Dec 11 12:24:00 CST 2023
                FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT
                PFSense + Qotom - Master
                PFSense + Jetway - Backup
                PFSense + Jetway - Backup
                PFSense + Generic - Backup

                T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • T
                  tquade @pete
                  last edited by

                  @pete Which "newest version of PFSense" are you refering to ie version number?

                  Ted

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Sergei_ShablovskyS
                    Sergei_Shablovsky @pete
                    last edited by

                    @pete Better to make hardware solutions less complicated as possible, so standalone GPS from Garmin / TomTom connected to COM1 would be perfect solution.

                    —
                    CLOSE SKY FOR UKRAINE https://youtu.be/_tU1i8VAdCo !
                    Help Ukraine to resist, save civilians people’s lives !
                    (Take an active part in public protests, push on Your country’s politics, congressmans, mass media, leaders of opinion.)

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                    • ?
                      A Former User
                      last edited by

                      @pete

                      Do this setup with the Neo 8M working anymore for you or not? I am on the search for GPS based NTP for my home network and came over that the pfSense might
                      be also a good point to setting up this there.

                      I found out the following, that the u.blox 6M and 7M based GPS modules pr cards are acting as a base station and giving out data directly and since the version 8Mx-x came out it is more important to know and look wich devices are sorted with wich modules (U.blox) to get
                      hands on. Perhaps this is the answer (not solution) to
                      the circumstance that you may not seeing any satellites and/or geo data anymore?

                      Neo 8MP-1 and Neo M8P-2 are the chips or modules where the delivering of high precision time
                      is the main focus, or over the geo position. They can
                      act in two different modes, called base and rover mode!

                      So now you might be better looking before buying a
                      device with wich module it comes sorted and what
                      "mode" it is really supporting. I was interested in
                      some miniPCIe cards and found one I will give a
                      try out next month, but I am also interested in the
                      solution named by @Sergei_Shablovsky in a
                      comment below.

                      Here is the document link according to the image
                      shown below: U.blox M8P Documentation (PDF)

                      ublox base and rover.jpeg

                      If anyone can confirm this too it would be great if he is
                      sharing this knowledge here with me. Due to the my
                      lack of good enough english language skills it could
                      be also that I get something wrong into, so please
                      don´t "hang me" for that and clarify it out please!
                      At this moment the sorry for bugging you all and
                      thanks for spending the time on this-

                      @Sergei_Shablovsky
                      Hello, I am playing around with the idea to set up also perhaps another devices and you named here something
                      about Garmin. Can you share with me wich device you
                      where mention here?

                      This is the second one I would try out after the miniCPIe
                      card is failing and/or not working!
                      Garmin GPS 16x

                      peteP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • peteP
                        pete @A Former User
                        last edited by pete

                        Two PFSense boxes and two new Neo GPS receivers are working fine now showing number of satellites and getting good time. I did install two outdoor GPS antennas and saw that I only got 6 satellites indoors near a windows to now outdoors 12-15 satellite views.

                        Purchased on Ebay. All I got from Amazon were clones.
                        Just test them when you purchase them.

                        Two boxes are Qotom and Jetway.

                        I did use a Garmin with an RS-232 port on it in the 1990's and it worked. Much larger footprint and did not have PPS.

                        • Pete

                        Auto mater
                        23.09.1-RELEASE (amd64)
                        built on Mon Dec 11 12:24:00 CST 2023
                        FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT
                        PFSense + Qotom - Master
                        PFSense + Jetway - Backup
                        PFSense + Jetway - Backup
                        PFSense + Generic - Backup

                        ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • ?
                          A Former User @pete
                          last edited by A Former User

                          @pete said in New GPS for NTP server:

                          Two PFSense boxes and two new Neo GPS receivers
                          are working fine now showing number of satellites
                          and getting good time.

                          Nice to hear from you, thanks in advanced for
                          that information.

                          I did install two outdoor GPS antennas and saw that
                          I only got 6 satellites indoors near a windows to now
                          outdoors 12-15 satellite views.

                          Cool to know, I have to install indoors (windows) but
                          with the miniPCIe card and the Garmin I was thinking
                          to get two RTCs and together with the normal clock
                          inside from the mainboard I can set up three NTPs.

                          Purchased on Ebay. All I got from Amazon were
                          clones.

                          Good to know! The miniPCIe card is from a shop for
                          mini PCs like NUCs and the Garmin one comes from amazon but I was seeing it also at eBay too.

                          Just test them when you purchase them.

                          I want to do so, thanks for the hint.

                          I did use a Garmin with an RS-232 port on it in
                          the 1990's and it worked. Much larger footprint
                          and did not have PPS.

                          The Garmin GPS 16x comes with an RJ45 jack, I want
                          set up it at a LAN port named GPS and set up there
                          the IP address for the port then I think I set it up at
                          the NTP configuring section as a server with the IP
                          address.

                          bingo600B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • peteP
                            pete
                            last edited by

                            Very nice that it has a network port.

                            PFSense + is working so well these days never touch it....

                            • Pete

                            Auto mater
                            23.09.1-RELEASE (amd64)
                            built on Mon Dec 11 12:24:00 CST 2023
                            FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT
                            PFSense + Qotom - Master
                            PFSense + Jetway - Backup
                            PFSense + Jetway - Backup
                            PFSense + Generic - Backup

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • bingo600B
                              bingo600 @A Former User
                              last edited by bingo600

                              @dobby_ said in New GPS for NTP server:

                              The Garmin GPS 16x comes with an RJ45 jack, I want
                              set up it at a LAN port named GPS

                              It seems to have RS-232 signals on that RJ45 plug.
                              https://static.garmin.com/pumac/GPS_16x_tech_specs.pdf

                              f95bdf08-cc67-483b-af13-a39cc1f1e53f-image.png

                              The 1PPS prob. needs buffering:

                              This output provides between 800
                              mVp-p to 1.7 Vp-p for GPS 16xLVS and 1.4 Vp-p for the GPS 16xHVS and
                              17HVS into a 50 Ω load. The pulse time measured at the 50% voltage point will
                              be about 50 ns earlier with a 50 Ω load than with no load.
                              

                              /Bingo

                              If you find my answer useful - Please give the post a 👍 - "thumbs up"

                              pfSense+ 23.05.1 (ZFS)

                              QOTOM-Q355G4 Quad Lan.
                              CPU  : Core i5 5250U, Ram : 8GB Kingston DDR3LV 1600
                              LAN  : 4 x Intel 211, Disk  : 240G SAMSUNG MZ7L3240HCHQ SSD

                              ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • ?
                                A Former User @bingo600
                                last edited by

                                @bingo600

                                Hello again,

                                It seems to have RS-232 signals on that RJ45 plug.

                                I am still confused about the Garmin product, they
                                have two nearly identically devices! One is named
                                GPS 16xHVS and the other is named GPS 16xLVS
                                and I can´t find out what is the difference from both.
                                Both comes both are available with an RJ45 jack and
                                about one device garmin was announcing it come
                                with one serial output and two serial inputs! But I
                                don´t find out where this connectors are placed, I
                                was long time searching all over the internet to
                                get a look on the bottom side, but there was
                                also nothing to find that looks like a port.

                                I find out that if I am not creating this LAN port,
                                and let it unattended I can choose it in the NTP
                                menue to set up serialGPS, but choosing instead
                                of it the LAN port, so I get one more option to try it out.

                                If all goes wrong, I know only the option to set up
                                the serial interface on the APU to one of the USB
                                ports and get an adapter like this;
                                Adapter 1
                                Adapter 2

                                https://static.garmin.com/pumac/GPS_16x_tech_specs.pdf

                                I should read at the weekend that document over to
                                find out more. A really hassle is this GPS part, but first
                                it was looking great and really easy to me, insert
                                a miniPCIe card connect the antenna and choose the
                                CuaUx.x port and all should be ready.

                                Thanks for the hint and linking to that document.

                                bingo600B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • bingo600B
                                  bingo600 @A Former User
                                  last edited by bingo600

                                  @dobby_ said in New GPS for NTP server:

                                  I am still confused about the Garmin product, they
                                  have two nearly identically devices! One is named
                                  GPS 16xHVS and the other is named GPS 16xLVS
                                  and I can´t find out what is the difference from both.

                                  LVS vs HVS is about the powersupply.
                                  LVS requires a : Regulated 3..6v supply
                                  HVS can be run of an unregulated 8..40v supply (ie. car/boat battery)

                                  6c0fda44-98da-45dc-a208-58d2a3023327-image.png

                                  The 2'nd serial port is currently for DGPS messages (all connections are in the RJ45 plug)

                                  52097544-7395-4abc-a1d7-7720a33b0a98-image.png

                                  It's all in the Tech pdf here:
                                  https://static.garmin.com/pumac/GPS_16x_tech_specs.pdf

                                  IMHO : If you don't have a soldering iron, and knows how to make a voltage translator etc .... Keep away from the Garmin

                                  /Bingo

                                  If you find my answer useful - Please give the post a 👍 - "thumbs up"

                                  pfSense+ 23.05.1 (ZFS)

                                  QOTOM-Q355G4 Quad Lan.
                                  CPU  : Core i5 5250U, Ram : 8GB Kingston DDR3LV 1600
                                  LAN  : 4 x Intel 211, Disk  : 240G SAMSUNG MZ7L3240HCHQ SSD

                                  ? Sergei_ShablovskyS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • ?
                                    A Former User @bingo600
                                    last edited by

                                    @bingo600

                                    IMHO : If you don't have a soldering iron, and knows
                                    how to make a voltage translator etc .... Keep away
                                    from the Garmin

                                    Ok thanks again for that input then I would really stay away
                                    from that Garmin product as a NTP time source.

                                    peteP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • peteP
                                      pete @A Former User
                                      last edited by pete

                                      This is where I got my start tinkering with GPS / NTP stuff...

                                      http://satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm

                                      In the 1990's used a Trimble GPS that came from military surplus store that I purchased for next to nothing. It just had an antenna port and two RS-232 interfaces. Took a long time to get a sync with an outdoor antenna mounted on roof of two story house.

                                      • Pete

                                      Auto mater
                                      23.09.1-RELEASE (amd64)
                                      built on Mon Dec 11 12:24:00 CST 2023
                                      FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT
                                      PFSense + Qotom - Master
                                      PFSense + Jetway - Backup
                                      PFSense + Jetway - Backup
                                      PFSense + Generic - Backup

                                      stephenw10S Sergei_ShablovskyS 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • stephenw10S
                                        stephenw10 Netgate Administrator @pete
                                        last edited by

                                        @pete said in New GPS for NTP server:

                                        ...came from a Tank that I purchased

                                        😁

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • J
                                          johndav201986 @pete
                                          last edited by

                                          This post is deleted!
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                                          • Sergei_ShablovskyS
                                            Sergei_Shablovsky
                                            last edited by Sergei_Shablovsky

                                            @A Former User said in New GPS for NTP server:

                                            @Sergei_Shablovsky
                                            Hello, I am playing around with the idea to set up also perhaps another devices and you named here something
                                            about Garmin. Can you share with me wich device you
                                            where mention here?
                                            This is the second one I would try out after the miniCPIe
                                            card is failing and/or not working!
                                            Garmin GPS 16x

                                            Recently we bought for one of projects new Garmin GPS 16x-HVS (more robust and stable working, and same or better receiver sensitivity rather 19x-HVS, especially for non-moving objects like rack server).

                                            P.S. May be this and this one thread would be interesting for You ;)

                                            —
                                            CLOSE SKY FOR UKRAINE https://youtu.be/_tU1i8VAdCo !
                                            Help Ukraine to resist, save civilians people’s lives !
                                            (Take an active part in public protests, push on Your country’s politics, congressmans, mass media, leaders of opinion.)

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