New GPS for NTP server

Sergei_Shablovsky

@pete Better to make hardware solutions less complicated as possible, so standalone GPS from Garmin / TomTom connected to COM1 would be perfect solution.

A Former User

@pete

Do this setup with the Neo 8M working anymore for you or not? I am on the search for GPS based NTP for my home network and came over that the pfSense might
be also a good point to setting up this there.

I found out the following, that the u.blox 6M and 7M based GPS modules pr cards are acting as a base station and giving out data directly and since the version 8Mx-x came out it is more important to know and look wich devices are sorted with wich modules (U.blox) to get
hands on. Perhaps this is the answer (not solution) to
the circumstance that you may not seeing any satellites and/or geo data anymore?

Neo 8MP-1 and Neo M8P-2 are the chips or modules where the delivering of high precision time
is the main focus, or over the geo position. They can
act in two different modes, called base and rover mode!

So now you might be better looking before buying a
device with wich module it comes sorted and what
"mode" it is really supporting. I was interested in
some miniPCIe cards and found one I will give a
try out next month, but I am also interested in the
solution named by @Sergei_Shablovsky in a
comment below.

Here is the document link according to the image
shown below: U.blox M8P Documentation (PDF)

ublox base and rover.jpeg

If anyone can confirm this too it would be great if he is
sharing this knowledge here with me. Due to the my
lack of good enough english language skills it could
be also that I get something wrong into, so please
don´t "hang me" for that and clarify it out please!
At this moment the sorry for bugging you all and
thanks for spending the time on this-

@Sergei_Shablovsky
Hello, I am playing around with the idea to set up also perhaps another devices and you named here something
about Garmin. Can you share with me wich device you
where mention here?

This is the second one I would try out after the miniCPIe
card is failing and/or not working!
Garmin GPS 16x

pete

Two PFSense boxes and two new Neo GPS receivers are working fine now showing number of satellites and getting good time. I did install two outdoor GPS antennas and saw that I only got 6 satellites indoors near a windows to now outdoors 12-15 satellite views.

Purchased on Ebay. All I got from Amazon were clones.
Just test them when you purchase them.

Two boxes are Qotom and Jetway.

I did use a Garmin with an RS-232 port on it in the 1990's and it worked. Much larger footprint and did not have PPS.

A Former User

@pete said in New GPS for NTP server:

Two PFSense boxes and two new Neo GPS receivers
are working fine now showing number of satellites
and getting good time.

Nice to hear from you, thanks in advanced for
that information.

I did install two outdoor GPS antennas and saw that
I only got 6 satellites indoors near a windows to now
outdoors 12-15 satellite views.

Cool to know, I have to install indoors (windows) but
with the miniPCIe card and the Garmin I was thinking
to get two RTCs and together with the normal clock
inside from the mainboard I can set up three NTPs.

Purchased on Ebay. All I got from Amazon were
clones.

Good to know! The miniPCIe card is from a shop for
mini PCs like NUCs and the Garmin one comes from amazon but I was seeing it also at eBay too.

Just test them when you purchase them.

I want to do so, thanks for the hint.

I did use a Garmin with an RS-232 port on it in
the 1990's and it worked. Much larger footprint
and did not have PPS.

The Garmin GPS 16x comes with an RJ45 jack, I want
set up it at a LAN port named GPS and set up there
the IP address for the port then I think I set it up at
the NTP configuring section as a server with the IP
address.

pete

Very nice that it has a network port.

PFSense + is working so well these days never touch it....

bingo600

@dobby_ said in New GPS for NTP server:

The Garmin GPS 16x comes with an RJ45 jack, I want
set up it at a LAN port named GPS

It seems to have RS-232 signals on that RJ45 plug.
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/GPS_16x_tech_specs.pdf

The 1PPS prob. needs buffering:

This output provides between 800
mVp-p to 1.7 Vp-p for GPS 16xLVS and 1.4 Vp-p for the GPS 16xHVS and
17HVS into a 50 Ω load. The pulse time measured at the 50% voltage point will
be about 50 ns earlier with a 50 Ω load than with no load.

/Bingo

A Former User

@bingo600

Hello again,

It seems to have RS-232 signals on that RJ45 plug.

I am still confused about the Garmin product, they
have two nearly identically devices! One is named
GPS 16xHVS and the other is named GPS 16xLVS
and I can´t find out what is the difference from both.
Both comes both are available with an RJ45 jack and
about one device garmin was announcing it come
with one serial output and two serial inputs! But I
don´t find out where this connectors are placed, I
was long time searching all over the internet to
get a look on the bottom side, but there was
also nothing to find that looks like a port.

I find out that if I am not creating this LAN port,
and let it unattended I can choose it in the NTP
menue to set up serialGPS, but choosing instead
of it the LAN port, so I get one more option to try it out.

If all goes wrong, I know only the option to set up
the serial interface on the APU to one of the USB
ports and get an adapter like this;
Adapter 1
Adapter 2

https://static.garmin.com/pumac/GPS_16x_tech_specs.pdf

I should read at the weekend that document over to
find out more. A really hassle is this GPS part, but first
it was looking great and really easy to me, insert
a miniPCIe card connect the antenna and choose the
CuaUx.x port and all should be ready.

Thanks for the hint and linking to that document.

bingo600

@dobby_ said in New GPS for NTP server:

I am still confused about the Garmin product, they
have two nearly identically devices! One is named
GPS 16xHVS and the other is named GPS 16xLVS
and I can´t find out what is the difference from both.

LVS vs HVS is about the powersupply.
LVS requires a : Regulated 3..6v supply
HVS can be run of an unregulated 8..40v supply (ie. car/boat battery)

The 2'nd serial port is currently for DGPS messages (all connections are in the RJ45 plug)

It's all in the Tech pdf here:
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/GPS_16x_tech_specs.pdf

IMHO : If you don't have a soldering iron, and knows how to make a voltage translator etc .... Keep away from the Garmin

/Bingo

A Former User

@bingo600

IMHO : If you don't have a soldering iron, and knows
how to make a voltage translator etc .... Keep away
from the Garmin

Ok thanks again for that input then I would really stay away
from that Garmin product as a NTP time source.

pete

This is where I got my start tinkering with GPS / NTP stuff...

http://satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm

In the 1990's used a Trimble GPS that came from military surplus store that I purchased for next to nothing. It just had an antenna port and two RS-232 interfaces. Took a long time to get a sync with an outdoor antenna mounted on roof of two story house.

stephenw10

@pete said in New GPS for NTP server:

...came from a Tank that I purchased

johndav201986

This post is deleted!

Sergei_Shablovsky

@A Former User said in New GPS for NTP server:

@Sergei_Shablovsky
Hello, I am playing around with the idea to set up also perhaps another devices and you named here something
about Garmin. Can you share with me wich device you
where mention here?
This is the second one I would try out after the miniCPIe
card is failing and/or not working!
Garmin GPS 16x

Recently we bought for one of projects new Garmin GPS 16x-HVS (more robust and stable working, and same or better receiver sensitivity rather 19x-HVS, especially for non-moving objects like rack server).

P.S. May be this and this one thread would be interesting for You ;)

Sergei_Shablovsky

@bingo600 said in New GPS for NTP server:

@dobby_ said in New GPS for NTP server:

I am still confused about the Garmin product, they
have two nearly identically devices! One is named
GPS 16xHVS and the other is named GPS 16xLVS
and I can´t find out what is the difference from both.

LVS vs HVS is about the powersupply.
LVS requires a : Regulated 3..6v supply
HVS can be run of an unregulated 8..40v supply (ie. car/boat battery)

Let’s note there are some drawbacks of HVS: voltage regulate element, that emitting heat inside closed case.

This mean 1 great news and 1 bad news:
The GREAT news are that in winter time this heat just dissolving the snow that coming on top of device and decrease GPS signal.
The BAD news are that in hot summer time this heat make internal temperature really hot (remind the device are hermetically close) and make unstable working measures.

And need to note that EXIST TWO COLORS of plastic of this device - BLACK and WHITE. So, choose according Your using environment. (White color less absorbing sunlights, so internal temperature would be less. But please NOT PAINTING your black one - most of spray paint consist the chemicals that prevent GPS signal receiving...)

IMHO : If you don't have a soldering iron, and knows how to make a voltage translator etc .... Keep away from the Garmin

Yes! GPS - is for BIG GUYS !

Sergei_Shablovsky

@pete said in New GPS for NTP server:

In the 1990's used a Trimble GPS that came from military surplus store that I purchased for next to nothing. It just had an antenna port and two RS-232 interfaces. Took a long time to get a sync with an outdoor antenna mounted on roof of two story house.

Very interesting! Thank You for information!

As I know there are TWO GPS systems: military and civil.

Military are more stable and more accurate. BUT only approved devices from military vendors contain electronic inside to able receiving and DECODING signals from military GPS system.

Am I right?

Sergei_Shablovsky

@pete said in New GPS for NTP server:

Replying to my own post figured out (guessing mostly) the configuration with the Neo-8M GPS Satellite board U-Blox Windows programming software.

Hi, Pete!

As for now are You able to see the geoposition in this dashboard on 2.7.2-RELEASE pfSense version?

elvisimprsntr

I tested three different Garmin GPS receivers connected directly to my pfSense firewall.

GPS 16x LVS (5V USB power)
GPS 18x LVC (5V USB power)
GPS 19x HVS (12V same power source as Protectli Vault)

Just need to wired them up to a DE9 RS232 or RJ45 COM port and provide applicable power.

Less than 10 usec jitter/offset for less than $50. Works automagically!

Full write up here

Sergei_Shablovsky

@elvisimprsntr said in New GPS for NTP server:

I tested three different Garmin GPS receivers connected directly to my pfSense firewall.

GPS 16x LVS (5V USB power)

GPS 18x LVC (5V USB power)

GPS 19x HVS (12V same power source as Protectli Vault)

Just need to wired them up to a DE9 RS232 or RJ45 COM port and provide applicable power.

Less than 10 usec jitter/offset for less than $50. Works automagically!

AMAZING WORK! Thank You so much!!!

Why You not make a PR to pfSense to include this as separate package?

Full write up here

VERY INTERESTING!
Let me spend some time to read…:)

elvisimprsntr

@Sergei_Shablovsky said in New GPS for NTP server:

Why You not make a PR to pfSense to include this as separate package?

Serial GPS/PPS is already part of pfSense NTP service.
I did submit a PR for the NTP display for the LCDproc package.

Sergei_Shablovsky

@elvisimprsntr said in New GPS for NTP server:

@Sergei_Shablovsky said in New GPS for NTP server:

Why You not make a PR to pfSense to include this as separate package?

Serial GPS/PPS is already part of pfSense NTP service.
I did submit a PR for the NTP display for the LCDproc package.

Nice to read this!

Personally, I vote up to EACH DC MUST HAVE INTERNAL STRATUM 1 server!
Because a lot of users here are SysAdmins in middle/big organizations, I hope Your work would be extra one push for them all to made separate time-server…