Home Network Design

JT40

Thanks everyone so far, but this thread will be a bit in this way, I'll keep asking questions :D until I don't saturate your patience :D

I came across Cisco Meraki, I was excited for the price, support and performance, but guess what, this is what you find in the end of this thread: https://forum.netgate.com/topic/160537/pfsense-cisco-switch-ms220-24p/18

A Meraki switch is cloud managed and needs to be able to see the internet for it to work.

Here is what the lights mean: https://documentation.meraki.com/Go/Meraki_Go_-_Decoding_the_LED_Light

I would reset the Meraki switch to default and then connect to pfsense box.

See restore button: https://documentation.meraki.com/MS/MS_Installation_Guides/MS_End_of_Sale/MS220-24%2F%2F48_Series_(EOS)_Installation_Guide

I have number Meraki switches and if they cannot see the internet they do not boot.

I'm speechless, what about if my Internet goes down?? It doesn't even boot?
What about if it's already ON, does it turn OFF?

I'd like to take this switch precisely, if I don't go with TP-Link: cisco meraki ms220-24p
Not easy to find in the list of supported devices, not sure why , but you can find it here: https://meraki.cisco.com/lib/pdf/meraki_datasheet_ms_220_320_only.pdf

I think I like the possibility of having PoE ports for videocameras in the future, and why not, some other IoT device, so I'm also evaluating PoE switches.

bPsdTZpW

@jt40 said in Home Network Design:

Thanks everyone so far, but this thread will be a bit in this way, I'll keep asking questions :D until I don't saturate your patience :D

I came across Cisco Meraki, I was excited for the price, support and performance, but guess what, this is what you find in the end of this thread: https://forum.netgate.com/topic/160537/pfsense-cisco-switch-ms220-24p/18
A Meraki switch is cloud managed and needs to be able to see the internet for it to work....

Ugh indeed. Also cloud-managed devices offer manufacturers more opportunities to spy your network, and hackers more routes in. I chose a Cisco CBS350 several months ago, and have been pleased so far. It's not cheap (~$300 for the 16 port model) but it's full-featured (yes, all the VLAN stuff you're likely to need) and doesn't need any WAN connectivity (or periodic license renewals!) to work. For any switch, but especially more expensive ones, beware fake hardware or grey-market items.

bingo600

AFAIK the Meraki's needs a valid license , that will expire.
And you have to renew ($$$) the license, when it's expired, in order to get the device to work again. The device validates the license on/via the internet.

I did help a friend convert a Meraki AP to OpenWRT (requires a JTAG).

They're a bit like "Ink Jet Printers" ... Cheap hardware , but constant expenses.

/Bingo

AndyRH

I found an old Aruba S2500 on eBay for $120 a while back. 48 port, it has exceeded my need.
Just a thought.

JT40

@andyrh I found them used in UK, but no PoE...

The problem is that PoE became a requirement, the Ubiquiti AP, as well as many others, supports only PoE to power up the device, I'm really sick about this switch search, I couldn't imagine it was so painful...

That PoE model costs 360 used, the one without PoE it's around 150 pounds.
I don't feel to spend 360 pounds for an used item without warranty...

At this point, it makes sense to look at TP-Link or D-link, but guess what, the PoE models cost twice...

I think I'll look other APs in order to remove the need for PoE, but I won't be able to attach any videcamera to it, it's not a requirement now, but in the future it could become handy.
On the other side, I already spent 500 pounds (including import taxes) for my firewall, I exagerated due to the gaming requirement, I didn't want the firewall to cause any delay in DPI functions...
In any case, it seems silly to spend so much for a switch, which does only L2 switch job :D .
Maybe I'm missing something, I can't believe that everyone needs to spend around 1K between used and new hardware just to build home networks...

johnpoz

@jt40 said in Home Network Design:

I think I'll look other APs in order to remove the need for PoE

And then where do you mount them for good coverage? now you have to place them somewhere you have power to plug them in, and now you have not only the device with its network connection, also another power connection, etc. You don't need a poe switch to power poe devices. You can just use injector - when you buy single AP they ship with the injector. Pretty much any good AP is going to be poe..

While sure poe switch is cleaner deployment. If you only have a handful of them its not a problem to use the injectors. I have 2 injectors hanging off my core 28 port switch, but they are hidden behind the desk the switch sits on. And the other one I have coming off my switch in my av cabinet in the living room.. The injector is just in the av cab and not seen, etc.

You could also just get a lower port density switch that does your poe for your poe devices. Vs wanting to find a high port density switch that also does poe, now your talking more cost. Problem you can run into with that sort of setup is bandwidth limitations from the uplink from that switch into your network. But possible you could use lacp into your core from that, or possible a 10ge uplink from the smaller switch to your core switch, etc.

Also do you really need L3, do your routing at your firewall/router - pfsense vs doing it downstream in your network. Finding a high port density L3 switch with poe puts you into enterprise level gear, that is not cheap.. Normally not quiet nor power friendly ;)

Finding the gear that does what you want from networking perspective at home user prices can be a challenge for sure ;)

bingo600

@jt40

I'm using these for my UBI AP-AC-PRO.
And for IP Phones too.
My requirement was Fanless ....
So the C3750-24 PoE switch i was offered for free was not an option.

D-Link DGS-1100-08PV2
https://www.amazon.co.uk/D-Link-DGS-1100-08PV2-Gigabit-Managed-features/dp/B08MWJVWW1/

They have a "Power budget" of 64W , and would easily run around 4 AP's.

Do NOT go cheap , and get the 5-port (only 18W power budget)

/Bingo

johnpoz

@bingo600 said in Home Network Design:

C3750-24 PoE switch

Would of been a great switch - but not quiet nor power friendly that is for sure..

BTW - the whole core, distribution and access layers come into play as you increase the complexity of your network for a reason ;) The access layer switches is were poe would be, and you wouldn't be doing L3 there.. You would be doing L3 most likely at the core, possible at the distribution layer depending on how large your network is, etc. But poe normally not done at either of those 2 layers. Only at access layer.

Welcome to the fun of trying to setup enterprise level sort of network on shoe string / home budget ;) hehehe And also trying to make sure its quiet and power friendly - while enterprise level gear is neither since its normally hidden away in some dc or idf or closet and noise doesn't come into play..

A few years back had some work redo closets for customer - 3 3850s in stack in closets, man it was like jet taking off when you powered those suckers up in that tiny closet room ;)

JT40

@johnpoz Thank you for all the answers.

I don't see the PoE injector in the AP I listed, so I should buy it separately.

I'm not concerned about the power plug for one AP, I mean, it's a powerful omnidirectional signal, what could go wrong?
I'm currently running with cheap antennas, I think that the AP from Ubiquity has an excellent signal and wherever I place it, it will provide me signal :D , but that's my expectation, I may be wrong.

I don't need an L2 switch because my PfSense box will do everything at L3, I just need an L2 switch but the price is always the same... Unless I'm making some mistakle during my search.

For example, the one that was previously mentioned by @bingo600 is an L2 switch (HPE Aruba 2530-24G-PoE+ ), but used it costs 360, no PoE costs 160 (used).

JT40

@bingo600 I'd go for something more expensive if it's about D-Link, for 200 pounds I can get at least 16 ports, wait and I'll post the model.

bingo600

@johnpoz said in Home Network Design:

A few years back had some work redo closets for customer - 3 3850s in stack in closets, man it was like jet taking off when you powered those suckers up in that tiny closet room ;)

Add a few Pizza Servers too, and the noise becomes unbearable.
Especially in the first minutes, when they are "cleaning dust out of the bearings".

/Bingo

johnpoz

@jt40 said in Home Network Design:

I don't see the PoE injector in the AP I listed, so I should buy it separately

What AP are you buying? One of the new wifi 6 models - like the lite.. Yeah seems they have stop including the injectors - what a shame..

"Powered by 802.3af PoE (PoE injector sold separately)"

But for example the UAP-AC-PRO models
"*5-packs do not come with PoE injectors."

When you buy just single AP they do come with them, etc.

bingo600

@jt40 said in Home Network Design:

@bingo600 I'd go for something more expensive if it's about D-Link, for 200 pounds I can get at least 16 ports, wait and I'll post the model.

If you go for D-link in the "Core layer" i'd chose a DGS-1210
The 1100 is fine for access , but no mac-filtering capabilities etc.

Seems like the 1210-28P has PoE on the first 4 ports
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255189622837

But i'd prob bid on this (non poe) , and add a 1100-poe
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125003856229

If (when) your PSU dies, it's better to replace a £100 device then a £300 device.

/Bingo

JT40

This is the D-Link model with 24 ports (D-Link DGS-1100-24PV2 24-Port PoE): https://www.scan.co.uk/products/24-port-d-link-dgs-1100-24pv2-gigabit-smart-managed-switch-12x-gbe-poe-12x-gbe-100w-budget-web-ui-gr

The price seems good for a new product, I just need to find a store that has it :D

johnpoz

@jt40 said in Home Network Design:

excellent signal and wherever I place it

Not really true - and especially if wanting "GOOD" coverage and at 5ghz.. Sure depends on the size of your home, and what sort of materials made up of and walls, etc.

But can almost promise you if you want great wifi coverage in all areas of your house, more than 1 AP prob going to be required..

I have a small ranch style house, just thin wood walls.. And I have 3 AP, pro in the center of the house, 1 in the kitchen near the patio door to give me better coverage out on the patio, and then on on the other side of the house in the guest room to give good coverage on that side of the house.

You will also might want more than 1 AP to spread your wifi out over multiple AP vs every device on the same one.. Now if all you have is a couple of phones and a tablet, that you really only use in limited area of the house.

But if you have iot sort of devices, etc. You prob going to want to spread the load over multiple AP..

JT40

@johnpoz Thanks, well in my case is not a problem of number of devices, it's just about coverage, currently with cheap TP-Link I'm able to get coverage on the entire apartment, so I'm not worried about it, unless the Ubiquiti has a weakness in that.

I only need their AP because I need the client isolation, which currently I don't have.

JT40

@bingo600

Thanks, I think I'll take this one used: https://www.dlinkmea.com/index.php/product/details?det=QlRYYTFvOG5INURLeUxLcm9xanlDUT09

I'm not sure about the domain of that website, but it's where I could find more informations, otherwise on the official website there is nothing, very weird...
https://www.dlink.com/en/products/dgs-1210-28p-28-port-gigabit-smart-managed-poe-switch

In any case, the TDP is low and I don't need to have 2 switches (double energy consumption), all the ports are PoE, with the first 4 that can provide more power, they should be PoE+, for me it's good in the same way.
I found it used, otherwise it's more than 300 pounds brand new, it's around 450-600...

Ok for the suggestion on a 10 ports switch, but that would probably imply to get a second one, which will result in more energy consumption, let's say max 5 pounds a month which will make the price of the switch in ~1y... (50 pounds used)
I think that spending 100 pounds on that 28 ports switch PoE is a good deal.

bPsdTZpW

@jt40 said in Home Network Design:

Thanks, I think I'll take this one used: https://www.dlinkmea.com/index.php/product/details?det=QlRYYTFvOG5INURLeUxLcm9xanlDUT09
I'm not sure about the domain of that website, but it's where I could find more informations, otherwise on the official website there is nothing, very weird...
https://www.dlink.com/en/products/dgs-1210-28p-28-port-gigabit-smart-managed-poe-switch

Don't you just love the domain name ecosystem, where anyone can buy almost any domain name, and legit organizations use several domains willy-nilly without giving users any real way to validate them? (Try a whois lookup on dlinkmea.com ; I get the contact info of a privacy shield company in Florida, USA). And the cert for the site is just domain-validated, so I can't use it to determine, even provisionally, which organization owns the domain.

Sometimes I wonder whether the whole domain system wasn't designed by phishers for their profit and amusement.

JT40

@bpsdtzpw I wasn't in the conditions to check it yesterday evening, but yes, cert issued by Kaspersky and domain managed by a company in Florida ahahah.
I was browsing just to avoid trusting the store description, both match, so it seems reliable :D , I just wonder how the hell they don't have these details in the official website...
In the end, it's not a new products, but not even decommissioned.

bPsdTZpW

@jt40 said in Home Network Design:

@bpsdtzpw I wasn't in the conditions to check it yesterday evening, but yes, cert issued by Kaspersky and domain managed by a company in Florida ahahah.
I was browsing just to avoid trusting the store description, both match, so it seems reliable :D

Interesting The cert it serves me is issued by CPanel as intermediate to Comodo, with SHA256 fingerprint 41:A6:F1:A2:CB:2C:91:54:30:78:7C:45:0C:FF:C2:C4:6F:D9:7D:E5:0D:01:96:40:1C:09:94:0B:D6:5A:4E:DA . This is cert https://crt.sh/?id=5515086855 . I guess you're using Kaspersky as security software?

, I just wonder how the hell they don't have these details in the official website...

Some manufacturers sell some products in only certain regions. Still, there should at least be some official link from the well-known manufacturer site to the unknown site.