Strange MicroSemi PDS-208 behavior
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@lewis I think I know what you're trying to do now.
You don't want to add another vlan to pfSense, you just want to stop using vlan 1 on the switch, is this correct?If so, the router doesn't care what vlan you use on the switch. You're using a physical port on the router, so whatever pvid is on the port of the switch that you plug into the router will be used.
Do this. Log into the switch. Add a vlan id that you want to use as the default vlan. Set that vlan id as pvid on any 2 ports for now. Set that vlan as management vlan.
Set the management vlan to dhcp.Plug one of the ports you used into the lan port on pfSense.Check your dhcp status and find the IP given to the switch.Plug the pc into the other switchport with the new vlan. Log into the IPyou found in the dhcp status. Set all the other switchports to the pvid of the vlan you want to use.Just looked at the picture you posted, looks like dhcp might not be an option so set a static IP like Johns post above.
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@jarhead said in Forced to use vlan1:
you just want to stop using vlan 1
what does it matter - the default vlan 1 is untagged... Who cares what the ID is - pfsense doesn't know or care that is 1, or 100, or 223 it doesn't matter..
he should just change the ip to the ip he wants to use for the switch on is lan network and be done with it..
This isn't some enterprise setup that has some policy about the default vlan.. In this context there is zero reason to change the default vlan on the switch.. It has no meaning for this use case.. Pfsense will never see the tag, nor need to tag to it..
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@lewis said in Forced to use vlan1:
Therefore, the first microsemi is set to 192.168.0.50 and vlan1.
I have its port 9 connected to port 16 of the main LAN switch.
That is the main switch that pfsense is connected to for it's LAN side.Have you tried getting vlan working on your main switch ?
It may be helpful to do that to get a better understanding of the workflow. I think dding a second switch would be less confusing then. -
@johnpoz said in Forced to use vlan1:
@jarhead said in Forced to use vlan1:
you just want to stop using vlan 1
what does it matter - the default vlan 1 is untagged... Who cares what the ID is - pfsense doesn't know or care that is 1, or 100, or 223 it doesn't matter..
he should just change the ip to the ip he wants to use for the switch on is lan network and be done with it..
He doesn't want to use vlan 1 as the default vlan.
This is my guess anyway. Not really sure what he actually is trying to do.
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@jarhead said in Forced to use vlan1:
@lewis I think I know what you're trying to do now.
therein may lie the problem, I have no clue what he's attempting to do....
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@jarhead said in Forced to use vlan1:
He doesn't want to use vlan 1 as the default vlan.
For what reason - he doesn't understand even the basics of how vlans work... There is no point for him to changing the default vlan on his switch.. Even if he changed it. It would still be untagged to his pfsense lan interface. So the ID is meaningless..
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@johnpoz said in Forced to use vlan1:
@lewis said in Forced to use vlan1:
These switches come with vlan1, IP 192.168.0.50 as their default.
The main LAN is 192.168.1.1/24 on pfsense which is connected to the main LAN switch. The main LAN switch has vlan1 by default, all ports untagged.If your pfsense is 192.168.1.1, then change the switch to say 192.168.1.2/24 with its gateway of 192.168.1.1
As long as nothing else on your lan is using 192.168.1.2
If only it would have been that simple :).
As explained, when I put the microsemi on the same network, then it only pings a few times and never again.
This happens when I restart the microsemi or pull and reconnect the cable. Pings and stops. -
@lewis said in Forced to use vlan1:
Pings and stops.
And what does that have to do with anything? You understand the ping command in windows by default only sends 4 right ;)
Can you access the gui?
What IP did you set it to, you sure you didn't use an IP that is already in use?
Here is the thing... the default vlan 1 has zero do with if the box answers pings. Like have said its UNTAGGED.. It is just a native network..
You plug it into pfsense, you plug some box into any other port on the switch.. There is nothing to do with vlans or tags.. Doesn't matter if you made the default vlan 666 or 999, or whatever.. It has no meaning when all the ports are in the this vlan, be it the default 1 or not.. And you plug some device into one of its ports and ping its ip..
Pfsense has zero to do with some box you have plugged into port 5 or whatever pinging the IP..
Why don't you just leave pfsense out of the equation completely - plug your pc into the switch, nothing else plugged into any other ports... you say it defaults to 192.168.0.50 right. Ok set your PC IP to 192.168.0.51 /24 (mask of 255.255.255.0)
Can you ping the IP, does it ping more than a few times using the -t on the end of your ping...Ok.. Now change the management IP to say 192.168.1.2.. Now change your PC to say 192.168.1.3 -- do your pings work, can you access the switch gui??
Ok now plug any of the other ports on the switch into pfsense lan.. Now you only have have pfsense lan interface, and your pc connected to the switch... Can you ping pfsense IP, 192.168.1.1, can you ping the switch 192.168.1.2 IP.. can you access the switch gui? Can you access pfsense web gui?
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You don't want to add another vlan to pfSense, you just want to stop using vlan 1 on the switch, is this correct?
I have no preference. If I have to use a vlan, it's fine, just never have used vlans. I wanted to avoid vlan1 since that's used on most switches but since it's a switch itself, then that's fine if it makes sense to use vlan1.
However, changing the microsemi vlan1 IP to an IP on the 192.168.1.1 network doesn't work. I can ping it a few times then no more.
Just looked at the picture you posted, looks like dhcp might not be an option so set a static IP like Johns post above.
Correct. The microsemi devices do not have a dhcp client though the manual says it does. I've not been able to find any firmware updates and even the distributor didn't know about any.
If so, the router doesn't care what vlan you use on the switch. You're using a physical port on the router, so whatever pvid is on the port of the switch that you plug into the router will be used.
Do this. Log into the switch. Add a vlan id that you want to use as the default vlan. Set that vlan id as pvid on any 2 ports for now. Set that vlan as management vlan.
Set the management vlan to dhcp.Plug one of the ports you used into the lan port on pfSense.Check your dhcp status and find the IP given to the switch.Plug the pc into the other switchport with the new vlan. Log into the IPyou found in the dhcp status. Set all the other switchports to the pvid of the vlan you want to use.I think I've tried this so let me explain what I've done again and see if it's what you are explaining.
I connected a terminal directly to port 10.
The microsemi comes default with vlan1 and 192.168.0.50.
My network is 192.168.1.1.
I changed vlan1 to 192.168.1.22, a free IP on the 192.168.1.1 network.
I changed the IP of the terminal to match so kept having access.
On the 192.168.1.1 network, I used a server to ping the 192.168.1.22 IP continuously and noticed that it can ping it 3-4 times only when the microsemi is restarted or the cable is pulled from the port and plugged back in.I preferred not to use vlan1 so wanted to add a new vlan for this since I have a bunch of these microsemi switches and want them on their own network.
I also don't have a free interface on pfsense so vlan would be perfect.I adding a new vlan on the microsemi, vlan3 so I would use a new network of 192.168.3.0/24. Something I'd remember, vlan matching the network.
I connected the microsemi port 9 directly to the main LAN switch, port 16. That's the same switch that pfsense is connected to.
I added vlan3 to the main switch for port 16, untagged. Not sure where I mentioned I used tagged but never have so if I did, it was a typo.Then I figured ok, now I have to add a vlan to pfsense.
I added vlan3 (192.168.3.1/24) to the LAN interface.
I then added a rule that should have allowed all traffic to the vlan.Even if I made an error above so far, the problem remains at the microsemi first I think.
When I created the vlan3 and selected all ports, I got locked out of the device. Changing the network on the terminal did nothing so I reset the switch.
Then I re-added a new vlan3 and this time, selected only ports 9 and 10.
Got locked out again.
Then I re-added a new vlan3 and this time, selected only port 9 for it so I would not get booted and that worked. I hoped that maybe that would at least get some communications going between pfsense and the microsemi so I could move forward from there.So, that combination ended up being, microsemi connected to main lan switch port 16. untagged. Port 9 of the microsemi using vlan3.
Got nowhere, decided to post here.
Based on the fact that you are all telling me how easy this should be, it means to me that the microsemi is doing something unusual or I'm missing a very small step. Of course, at this point, it's a long thread which also adds additional confusion but still appreciating the help otherwise, I think these damn things would be in the garbage bin at this point! Or I should be on a badly needed vacation.
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@lewis You do realize that every switch is it's own broadcast domain, right?
You can have 10 switches, all using vlan 1 and each switch will be a separate network if you connect them to different interfaces on the router.
If what you're thinking is because they all use vlan 1 they are all gonna be connected, that's not how it works. Think about it, every switch I've ever seen comes with vlan 1 as default. So if you were right, every network in the world would be connected.
If you don't connect the switches together, they are separate regardless if they all use vlan 1 or not.Why don't you draw a diagram of what you want to do so it would be clearer because what you're saying isn't coming over very well.
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I don't know why what I'm asking about is sounding so complicated.
I'm not wanting to do anything interesting. I simply want to reach these switches from the main lan.
Later, I thought this might be a good opportunity to learn about vlans, by keeping these switches in their own isolated network but reachable from the main lan.
A diagram would be as simple as;
A separate network would be nice to have so I could isolate that traffic from the main LAN and the other networks on the pfsense.
For now, I just want some of the devices on 192.168.1.1/24 to be able to reach the microsemi devices connected to ports 1-8 when that's done.
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@lewis said in Forced to use vlan1:
A diagram would be as simple as;
And how many times do I have to tell you how to set this up? This works out of the box on both pfsense and this switch.. Forget vlans for 1 minute..
As I stated above how to change the IP of the switch to 192.168.1.2
Do that! And your diagram works.. It is that simple, there is nothing to do - no small steps... Your changing the IP of the switch.. nothing to do with vlans nothing to do on pfsense.. the only thing you have to worry about is the IP you set the switch to is not already being used on your 192.168.1/24 network..
Once you have the switch working with some 192.168.1.x IP on its default vlan 1, we can start talking about adding vlans.. Keep in mind with your drawing, that main switch if its dumb is not how you would do it.. Because while a dumb switch might not strip vlan tags (it could but shouldn't) It doesn't understand vlans, and any broadcast traffic sent across that switch no matter what vlan tag you have on it is going to go out all the ports, and there is no isolation of any vlan traffic.. That sort of setup is not a valid setup..
if you have some dumb switch it should be behind your vlan capable switch..
If you have plan on doing vlans sometime in the future.. You should put this vlan capable switch between pfsense and your dumb switch..
But for now.. I would get the vlan switch working on something.. Either change its management IP to be on your lan network.. Or just connect it to one of your other pfsense interfaces and either use 192.168.0/24 network on that, or change that network to be some network you want to use..
But for now forget about changing any vlans on the switch, forget about setting up any vlans on pfsense. And just get the switch talking on its IP you set on it..
If your other interfaces are not actively being used.. The plug your new vlan switch into one of those. Set pfsense to use 192.168.0.1/24 on this interface.
Setup a any any rule on pfsense optX interface. make sure the gateway on the switch is 192.168.0.1 and there you go - the switch is on your local network, it can talk to the internet or your other networks. And as long as your networks are not policy routing traffic out some gateway or vpn. And your rules allow it to talk to your other networks on pfsense - your working..
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Please don't say things like 'how many times do I have to tell you'. I'm a grown man, I don't treat people that way and I don't want to be treated this way.
I'm not being rude and I'm not purposely not understanding. It's new to me and many others have said that playing with vlans was quite a challenge for them.
Yes, I understand that we're not talking vlans at this point but I've shared many times that I've done exactly what you're showing.
I shared above that it is set to 192.168.1.22, a free IP in the main LAN.
It responds to pings only 3-4 times then no more unless restarted or I pull the cable and plug it back in.There are no switches in between right now, port 9 of the microsemi is connected to port 16 of the main LAN switch and it's on the same network but is not accessible.
Here is an image of the microsemi;
And here is an image trying to ping it from a LAN client;
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That is your client 192.168.1.50 saying that IP that is suppose to be on my network does not have a mac address.. via arp..
Here I do not have anything on my network at 9.44 - so yeah might client says it can not talk to that host..
Where is this 192.168.1.50 client.. is it plugged into the vlan switch, on a port that is still on vlan 1 or its connected to your main switch?
None of this has anything to do with vlans, this has to do with your switch.. If your connected to a port on that vlan switch that is untagged in vlan 1 and it can not ping the management IP of the switch... Then either you didn't actually change the IP. Or the switch is borked..
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@lewis said in Forced to use vlan1:
There are no switches in between right now, port 9 of the microsemi is connected to port 16 of the main LAN switch and it's on the same network but is not accessible.
So where's the router in this?
Why not get rid of the main lan switch for a second.
Plug the microsemi into the lan port from pfSense and a pc into another switchport.
Does everything work that way?
This sounds like the main lan switch is in between. -
@jarhead the dumb switch shouldn't matter.
But have already went over testing the changing of this switches management IP without any other switches or pfsense involved at all.
Connect your PC to say port 1 of the switch, not the console port.. Any of the ports on the switch.. Set your IP on your pc to 192.168.0.51, access the switch gui - change the IP to 192.168.1.2.. or .22 if you want... Now change the IP of your PC to 192.168.1.X
Can you ping the IP of the switch, and you access the gui - if not then the switch isn't changing its IP or its just plain freaking borked..
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That is your client 192.168.1.50 saying that IP that is suppose to be on my network does not have a mac address.. via arp..
Not exactly. It's what I've been explaining many times.
I have configured an IP on the microsemi that is on the same network as the other devices are on LAN. I've given it 192.168.1.22, a free IP, not being used anywhere else.
From just another client, in this case, a Centos server on the network, I start pinging that IP but get nothing. I get nothing unless I reboot the microsemi or unplug the Ethernet cable then plug it back in. Any time it does ping, it only pings 3-4 times or so then no more.
In this image, I show that I'm pinging the switch while it's rebooting. The moment I see a response, I run an nmap.
Somehow, the nmap completes showing the open ports on the device.
Maybe the probe kept the switch communicating until it was done or something.And yes, it's the correct MAC address as well.
Great. Then I immediately start pinging it again and as you can see, it's already gone.
On the terminal connected to the microsemi, I can still ping 192.168.1.22.
So where's the router in this?
The router is on the WAN side, it's not involved at all.
Since the terminal is connected directly to the microsemi port, it's not involved in any firewall/router either.Why not get rid of the main lan switch for a second.
Plug the microsemi into the lan port from pfSense and a pc into another switchport.I can't do that, it would take down too many things. Everything across the networks is working just fine, it's only this microsemi I'm having a problem with.
This sounds like the main lan switch is in between.
The fact that the microsemi was reachable for a short while by a client on the LAN seems to confirm there is nothing wrong with the main LAN switch.
From pfsense, using ping, it's the same it cannot reach 192.168.1.22 even though it was reachable a few moments ago.
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Excuse for jumping in, but can you do a simple test and post the outcome?
Just connect the microsemi switch and a notebook directly with a LAN cable. If the notebook has a 1Gb/s interface an usual cable will work, no crossover cable mandatory.
Assign a static IP to the notebook in same subnet (i.e. switch: 192.168.1.22, notebook 192.168.1.10, subnet mask 255.255.255.0 at both devices).
So no "foreign" devices are involved.
Is ping then continously?Regards
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@fsc830 exactly..
Take the rest of the network out of the equation completely..
Also that destination host unreachable is where the client doesn't know the mac.. if there was a firewall blocking, or the device just didn't want answer then the response would be timeout. Not unreachable - unreachable means the client doesn't know what mac address to send the traffic too.
Or it doesn't have a route, etc. but if devices are on the same network and you get host unreachable - that means there is no mac for that IP..
Look in your arp table.. on the client your using to ping that is on the same network as the switches management IP.
edit: here is a question for you - are you actually apply the config.. You can change the running config, but are you saving that running config?
Page 86 of the manual talks about saving the running config.. If you are rebooting the device and didn't actually save the config, it would go back to the saved config.. Ie revert to the old IP, etc.
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Connect your PC to say port 1 of the switch, not the console port.. Any of the ports on the switch.. Set your IP on your pc to 192.168.0.51, access the switch gui - change the IP to 192.168.1.2.. or .22 if you want... Now change the IP of your PC to 192.168.1.X
I'm not connected to the console port, I don't have the cable. I thought about that also and tried connecting the terminal to 1-8 ports and the same thing happens.
On the terminal, I constantly have a ping going along with the GUI open in a browser.Can you ping the IP of the switch, and you access the gui - if not then the switch isn't changing its IP or its just plain freaking borked..
The switch is using the new IP of 192.168.1.22.
I tried this just now. I connected the terminal to an unmanaged switch.
I connected the microsemi to the same switch.
The terminal was able to ping it a few times but then no more as all other times so far.The manual says no need for a cross-over cable or anything unusual but for some reason, the microsemi won't work using an Ethernet switch.
