I got the Netgate 8200 in anticipation of ATT Fiber coming soon to my address

Phizix

There seems to be some disconnect here. I already indicated that I would be setting it up the way you suggest although I did not mention IP passthrough, but I was already planning on setting it in that mode in the AT&T gateway.

As I mentioned previously the the fiber will come to the AT&T gateway and plug in to it's SFP+ port (at the bottom) and the 6COM converter will plug in the Blue 5Gb Base-T via a 5E cable to its ethernet port, and the 6COM SFP+ port will plug in via DAC cable to one of the 8200's SFP+ ports.

I am NOT planning on using a direct BaseT SFP+ module as Netgate specifically recommends against them. I will be using an external media convertor? Did you look at the link I posted for the 6COM external media convertor. This moves the heat problem out of the 8200 SFP+ port.

Did I miss something?

Phizix

DefenderLLC

@Phizix I was just trying to help. By the way, the transceiver I posted above was recommended by Netgate and I haven’t had a single packet loss with either of them. They work perfectly fine.

Unless you order the 5Gb service, there’s really no point in using one them the first place. You could just use the 2.5G copper ports and skip the transceiver altogether. Again, I was just trying to help. #NoGoodDeedGoesUnpunished

Phizix

@DefenderLLC,

Sorry if my message came across as snarky, that was not my intent. I did appreciate the informative message and the time you put into it. The second message seemed like you thought I had not paid attention to your message and I had, so I was a little confused as to what prompted your second message, as though I had missed something.

WRT to the SFP+ module, I did not know that Netgate had a 10GBase-T transceiver that they recommend. I was going by the 8200 online manual which says:

Cheers.

Phizix

rcoleman-netgate

@Phizix Yes - that is about the RJ45 SFP+ adapter, not a 10Gb SFP+ FOC transceiver.

The store has DACs: https://shop.netgate.com/collections/cables and transceivers: https://shop.netgate.com/collections/adapters/products/sfp-10gbase-sr-transceiver

We do not recommend passive DACs -- in fact they often will break your system's NDI at reboot.

Cylosoft

I've mentioned in a few other threads but we have RJ45 SFP+ adapters on a bunch of production systems at this point. 6100 and 8200. No issues at all. I wouldn't hesitate to use them. This message it going to out using an 8200 that's been running once since 8200's started shipping.

stephenw10

What specific adapter(s) are you using? I'd like to get one to test.

We have seen some that work. But we've also seen a lot that don't. The reason they are not supported is that Intel specifically states they do not in the notes for the SoC NICs in C3K. So...YMMV!

Steve

Cylosoft

@stephenw10 We settled on the Mikrotik S+RJ10. We use them connected to Unfi or Cisco switches.

DefenderLLC

@Cylosoft said in I got the Netgate 8200 in anticipation of ATT Fiber coming soon to my address:

@stephenw10 We settled on the Mikrotik S+RJ10. We use them connected to Unfi or Cisco switches.

Same here with the MirokTok S+RJ10. I've been using two of these in my 6100 MAX with "zero" issues or reported errors on my AT&T gateway.

https://www.ispsupplies.com/MikroTik-RouterBOARD-SRJ10

RobbieTT

@rcoleman-netgate said in I got the Netgate 8200 in anticipation of ATT Fiber coming soon to my address:

We do not recommend passive DACs -- in fact they often will break your system's NDI at reboot.

Since when?

I use passive DACs (SFP+) and they are arguably the least burdensome interconnect you can have for short distances. The option to use them is stated in the Netgate 6100 user manual and you also stock them in the store.

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Phizix

@rcoleman-netgate,

I am with @RobbieTT in my confusion about:

We do not recommend passive DACs . . .

Since the link to the data cables from Netgate that you provided shows "Passive" on both:

I am definitely confused now. Did you mean that you do not recommend "Active" DACs?

Phizix

DefenderLLC

@Phizix said in I got the Netgate 8200 in anticipation of ATT Fiber coming soon to my address:

@rcoleman-netgate,

I am with @RobbieTT in my confusion about:

We do not recommend passive DACs . . .

Since the link to the data cables from Netgate that you provided shows "Passive" on both:

I am definitely confused now. Did you mean that you do not recommend "Active" DACs?

Phizix

You are totally overthinking this. Before switching to the copper-to-fiber transceivers for my WAN, I've never had any issues with the MicroTik or Ubiquiti DAC cables for my LAN connection or even the ones from Amazon. Unless you ordered the 5Gb AT&T Fiber service, there's no point even using fiber or DAC cables.

Not sure what you're trying to connect what to what, but the handoff from the AT&T gateway will be copper only. If you ordered either the 1GB or 2Gb AT&T Fiber plans, there is absolutely no reason to even use the fiber ports on then 8200. You can just use one the four 2.5 Gb copper port as any port on the 8200 can be assigned for LAN or WAN. If you did order the 5Gb AT&T Fiber plan, you will need to use one on of those MicroTok transceivers that we have shared a few times on this thread.

I am really trying to help you here, but you are all over the place. It would be helpful if you shared what AT&T Fiber plan you're getting and your network topology including all connectivity upstream and downstream to your 8200.

I tried. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Phizix

@DefenderLLC,

Indeed I do plan to order the 5Gb service from AT&T. And I totally understand that the delivery from the AT&T Gateway will be 5G-BaseT.

I explained how I intend to connect it:

. . . the fiber will come to the AT&T gateway and plug in to it's SFP+ port (at the bottom) and the 6COM converter will plug in to the Blue 5Gb Base-T via a CAT5E cable to its ethernet port, and the 6COM's SFP+ port will plug in via a DAC cable to one of the 8200's 10G SFP+ ports.

Cheers

Phizix

DefenderLLC

@Phizix said in I got the Netgate 8200 in anticipation of ATT Fiber coming soon to my address:

@DefenderLLC,

Indeed I do plan to order the 5Gb service from AT&T. And I totally understand that the delivery from the AT&T Gateway will be 5G-BaseT.

I explained how I intend to connect it:

. . . the fiber will come to the AT&T gateway and plug in to it's SFP+ port (at the bottom) and the 6COM converter will plug in to the Blue 5Gb Base-T via a CAT5E cable to its ethernet port, and the 6COM's SFP+ port will plug in via a DAC cable to one of the 8200's 10G SFP+ ports.

Cheers

Phizix

This is last my final attempt and then I'm out. All you need is a copper cable and the MicroTik transceiver that will plug into one of the two 10Gb fiber ports. No DAC cable needed. You have two other Netgate 6100/8200 owners that have demonstrated what works, so I don't know why you're not taking the advice. They aren't even expensive. One copper cable. One transceiver. Done.

https://www.ispsupplies.com/MikroTik-RouterBOARD-SRJ10

RobbieTT

@DefenderLLC
I guess there is some reluctance in places to use the RJ45 adapters given Intel's warning about them exceeding the power available from a physical port that is directly linked to the BGA on the Atom CPU (ie no discrete power as you would get with a regular NIC).

I don't think anyone has extracted the actual power limits from Intel though to compare against the actual power used by the NBase-T adapters at various cable lengths and construction.

That they work in terms of connectivity and signal integrity is not in doubt.

No doubt Intel is hiding something behind that curtain...

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DefenderLLC

@RobbieTT said in I got the Netgate 8200 in anticipation of ATT Fiber coming soon to my address:

@DefenderLLC
I guess there is some reluctance in places to use the RJ45 adapters given Intel's warning about them exceeding the power available from a physical port that is directly linked to the BGA on the Atom CPU (ie no discrete power as you would get with a regular NIC).

I don't think anyone has extracted the actual power limits from Intel though to compare against the actual power used by the NBase-T adapters at various cable lengths and construction.

That they work in terms of connectivity and signal integrity is not in doubt.

No doubt Intel is hiding something behind that curtain...

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They do get hot AF, but I've been using two of them side-by-side in my 6100 MAX for months without issue (no errors either). I am only using a second one on my LAN connection because I redid my UniFi rack and I didn't have a DAC cable long enough. I just used another one of these MicroTok transceivers with a CAT6 cable that was already behind the wall connecting my two racks. I would use them again.

Phizix

@DefenderLLC,

I see what you are driving at, but I already had the media converter in hand and it was much simpler to get a DAC cable to complete the loop. All the media converter and DAC cable are doing is moving the equivalent of the RJ45-SFP+ module outside the SFP+ port and not drawing the power from the 8200's SFP+ port.

The second reason is that in my experience if something goes wrong with the unit and it was operated outside the recommendations of the manufacturer, they can refuse to honor any warranty.

I cannot say who I work for, but if the devices we sell are operated outside the data sheet specifications, we will NOT honor any warranty.

Therefore, this was my solution to that dilemma. It cost about $25 more this way, but I can say that it is being operated within recommended operating conditions.

@DefenderLLC - Thank you indeed for trying to help! I DO appreciate you taking the time. And I now understand what was driving your passion on this.

Phizix

P.S. @DefenderLLC - COOL PICS!!

Phizix

@rcoleman-netgate,

So re-reading the 8200 manual it does say "Active DAC", but I am still confused by the link to the Netgate
store cables.

Phizix

RobbieTT

@Phizix
Your manual (and mine, for the 6100) also states:

Intel-branded SFP+ DA twin-ax cables that comply with SFF-8431 v4.1 and SFF-8472 v10.4 specifications. Note: Limited to 10G link speed (no 1G support).
Third party SFP+ DA twin-ax cables that comply with SFF-8431 v4.1 and SFF-8472 v10.4 specifications. Note: Limited to 10G link speed (no 1G support).

So passive DACs are also supported; which matches the Intel specifications for the X553 interfaces.

[Edit:]

I just noticed this in the Netgate manual:

Note

The igc(4) and ix(4) network interfaces on this device do not support fixed speed operation. These interfaces emulate a speed/duplex choice by limiting the values offered during autonegotiation to the speed/duplex value selected in the GUI.
The other devices connected to these interfaces must be set to autonegotiate, not to a specific speed or duplex value.

The above statements are not entirely correct. At best the must is really a should as back-to-back use of these interfaces requires that both devices should have the same specific speed set at either end.

This applies to me as my UniFi switches have the same requirement so I need to set specific speeds. Not that UniFi understands this either and makes the same mistake in their documents. Thankfully the Intel documents make this distinction clear.

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DefenderLLC

@RobbieTT I have no trouble connecting these at 10Gb to my UniFi gear. If my gear can do 10Gb, I do 10Gb!

RobbieTT

@DefenderLLC said in I got the Netgate 8200 in anticipation of ATT Fiber coming soon to my address:

@RobbieTT I have no trouble connecting these at 10Gb to my UniFi gear. If my gear can do 10Gb, I do 10Gb!

No trouble here either, just passing-on the undocumented traps that can catch new players out.

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