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    New mini-itx router, choose configuration

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    • L
      liviu779
      last edited by

      Hi!

      I'm new on this forum, and also new to pfSense, but willing to learn.
      I want to build a mini-ITX router/firewall, for home use.  I will be playing with snort, ntop, etc, RAM&CPU hungry modules, and want to give it as much resources as it needs.
      But I also want it completely fanless/silent.

      Please can you help me choose between the two configurations below:

      –-----------------------------------
      1. JETWAY:
      Motherboard: Jetway Intel D525 Fanless Mini-ITX w/Power, NF96FL-525          
      Daughterboard: Jetway 3x Intel Gigabit LAN Module AD3INLANG,NF96FL-510  (chipset Intel 82541PI)
      RAM: 4 GB
      HDD: 1x HDD, SATA, 2.5inch
      CASE:          mini-box M350
      –-----------------------------------
      2. Intel ATOM D525MW
      MOBO: INTEL iNM10 Express iAtom D525MW Dual Core 1.8Ghz BLKD525MW   (1xLAN Realtek 8111E onboard)
      PCI CARD: Intel PWLA8492MT PRO-1000 MT Dual Port Gigabit Server Adapter, PCI
      RAM: Corsair CMSO4GX3M2A1333C9 4GB, 1333MHz, ValueSelect
      HDD: 1x HDD SATA2.5 inch                                                    
      CASE: Chieftec Flyer Series FI-01B, 200W, mini-ITX
      –-----------------------------------

      The Jetway :
      PROS:
       - better quality, 4 intel NICs (1 on MOBO and 3 on Daughtercard)
       - no PSU needed;
      CONS
       - but I leave in Europe and I have to order them from big distance.
       - more expensive (+ about $40)


      The Intel iNM10
      PROS:

      • DDR3 instead of DDR2,
      • the big advantage: i can buy it from a local IT Store, have it at home the next day.

      CONS:

      • still couldn't find a fanless PSU,
      • some problems with driver for Realtek 8111E (are they solved meanwhile ?? in version 2.0 ?).

      Which one would you choose?

      Thanx!!

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • T
        Tikimotel
        last edited by

        Personally I use Atom + intel dual NIC PCI-X (disabled on-board Realtek NIC's)
        I'm looking for the Via nano x2 solution (padlock, better throughput in general) , but it's too expensive.(or not available to order in my country)

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        • L
          liviu779
          last edited by

          Now I see I was mistaken with second configuration:  Intel PRO-1000 MT Dual Port Gigabit is PCI-X, not PCI,  :-[ and does not fit into PCI slot of Atom D525MW.

          [quote]Personally I use Atom + intel dual NIC PCI-X - What Atom motherboard do you have, with PCI-X slot ?

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          • L
            liviu779
            last edited by

            After some research,  I found that PCI-X format of the Intel PRO-1000 MT actually fits into the PCI slot of the mini-ITX board  :o  :o :o
            But it will operate at 66MHz instead of the 133 that is native for PCI-X

            So : do you have any idea if this might work?    :-\ 
            Intel ATOM D525MW +  Intel PRO-1000 MT Dual Port Gigabit (limited at the speed of PCI) ?

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • stephenw10S
              stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
              last edited by

              It will probably work and it's unlikely the PCI connection will throttle your connection since the Atom CPU will be the weak point in the system.
              32bit PCI at 33MHz is approximately 1Gbps but actual throughput will be less with overheads etc. Atom D525 will not be getting close to that in firewall throughput. Even if we allow for traffic going both ways across the interface (WAN and LAN on the card) 500Mbps is at the very top of the throughput I would expect.

              Steve

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              • J
                jms703
                last edited by

                I'm curious what you are going to spend for those boards. I looked at almost every mini-itx Atom/Zacate cpu/motherboard combo and I always found them to be just a few dollars cheaper than a mini-itx desktop solution. The upside is that you have a whole lot more CPU and the new Sandy Bridge CPUs are almost as power efficient as the Atom/Zacate solutions. I couldn't find a reason to buy an Atom or Zacate anymore.

                For instance, I just built a system with these components:

                Intel G620 (Low end dual core sandy bridge)
                Intel S1200KP (C202 server chipset, dual Intel NICs)
                4GB DDR3

                and it performs well and runs at 36 watts when idle.

                Hope that helps.

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                • R
                  rekd0514
                  last edited by

                  I agree get a Sandy Bridge Pentium or Celeron, just not the 440 since it doesn't have speedstep.

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                  • C
                    crashenx
                    last edited by

                    @liviu779:

                    After some research,   I found that PCI-X format of the Intel PRO-1000 MT actually fits into the PCI slot of the mini-ITX board  :o  :o :o
                    But it will operate at 66MHz instead of the 133 that is native for PCI-X

                    So : do you have any idea if this might work?    :-\   
                    Intel ATOM D525MW +  Intel PRO-1000 MT Dual Port Gigabit (limited at the speed of PCI) ?

                    Has anyone verified this works?

                    I just ordered and received a PRO-1000 MT card.  I went to install it in my Jetway NC-92 mini-itx and realized the card was keyed reverse to that of the slot. I'm guessing that the card is 3.3v only and that the slot is 5v only (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PCI_Keying.png).  The picture of the D525MW didn't look like a universal PCI slot, so I'm not sure that it will work either. However, the product specification stated it is pci 2.3 which I believe supports both.

                    If it does work, it may require a pci riser with a cable that can be twisted around so that the card can actually be installed.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • stephenw10S
                      stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                      last edited by

                      Hmm, interesting. I'd kind of assumed they sorted out this kind of incompatibility problem years ago!
                      I agree the PCI slots on those boards look to be keyed for 5V. However the Intel PRO/1000 MT Server Adapter looks to be keyed for universal use so there shouldn't be problem.  :-\

                      You can't just install it backwards and twist the riser cable around.

                      Steve

                      Edit: The Pro/1000 Desktop Adapter is also universally keyed but is PCI instead of PCI-X. Are you sure you got the correct card?

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                      • N
                        Nonsense
                        last edited by

                        jms703 wrote:

                        _"For instance, I just built a system with these components:

                        Intel G620 (Low end dual core sandy bridge)
                        Intel S1200KP (C202 server chipset, dual Intel NICs)
                        4GB DDR3

                        and it performs well and runs at 36 watts when idle."_

                        How were you able to overcome the network port driver issue in that motherboard?  I know there is a driver workaround out there, but I don't think it has ever been incorporated into the main software download. ???

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                        • P
                          phils
                          last edited by

                          I built this recently:

                          Jetway NF99FL-525 (Dual core Atom D525 1.8Ghz, dual onboard Intel Gigabit NICs)
                          http://www.jetway.com.tw/jw/ipcboard_view.asp?productid=832&proname=NF99FL-525

                          M350 Mini-ITX enclosure
                          http://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure

                          picoPSU-80
                          http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-80

                          2GB DDR3 SODIMM RAM

                          2GB SATA DOM (SLC) ($30 on ebay)
                          http://www.kingspec.com/solid-state-disk-products/dom-sata1channel-slcj.htm

                          Runs pfSense very nicely.  Completely solid state.  Uses 19W at idle.

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                          • D
                            dreamslacker
                            last edited by

                            @stephenw10:

                            Hmm, interesting. I'd kind of assumed they sorted out this kind of incompatibility problem years ago!
                            I agree the PCI slots on those boards look to be keyed for 5V. However the Intel PRO/1000 MT Server Adapter looks to be keyed for universal use so there shouldn't be problem.  :-\

                            You can't just install it backwards and twist the riser cable around.

                            Steve

                            Edit: The Pro/1000 Desktop Adapter is also universally keyed but is PCI instead of PCI-X. Are you sure you got the correct card?

                            He has gotten the wrong card, so to speak.  The Pro/1000 MT exists in single port, dual port and quad port variants.
                            The single and dual port cards are universally keyed.

                            However, the quad-port is only keyed for 3.3v.  There was a thread on this sometime back here:
                            http://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=32953.0

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                            • stephenw10S
                              stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                              last edited by

                              Ah! That would explain it. Good catch.
                              The original poster talks about a dual port card, I think that threw me.

                              Steve

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                              • T
                                taryezveb
                                last edited by

                                @jms703:

                                I'm curious what you are going to spend for those boards. I looked at almost every mini-itx Atom/Zacate cpu/motherboard combo and I always found them to be just a few dollars cheaper than a mini-itx desktop solution. The upside is that you have a whole lot more CPU and the new Sandy Bridge CPUs are almost as power efficient as the Atom/Zacate solutions. I couldn't find a reason to buy an Atom or Zacate anymore.

                                For instance, I just built a system with these components:

                                Intel G620 (Low end dual core sandy bridge)
                                Intel S1200KP (C202 server chipset, dual Intel NICs)
                                4GB DDR3

                                and it performs well and runs at 36 watts when idle.

                                Hope that helps.

                                @rekd0514:

                                I agree get a Sandy Bridge Pentium or Celeron, just not the 440 since it doesn't have speedstep.

                                +3, I just built the following[1]. Works great and does much more than atom would.

                                [1] http://forum.pfsense.org/index.php/topic,44269.0.html

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                                • P
                                  phils
                                  last edited by

                                  @taryezveb:

                                  +3, I just built the following[1]. Works great and does much more than atom would.

                                  [1] http://forum.pfsense.org/index.php/topic,44269.0.html

                                  Yeah though the Atom solutions can be completely solid state.

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                                  • T
                                    taryezveb
                                    last edited by

                                    @phils:

                                    Yeah though the Atom solutions can be completely solid state.

                                    Not sure what exactly you mean by solid state. I see no reason why a non atom solution could not be solid state as well.

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                                    • P
                                      phils
                                      last edited by

                                      @taryezveb:

                                      Not sure what exactly you mean by solid state. I see no reason why a non atom solution could not be solid state as well.

                                      Mainly that it's fanless and noiseless, without requiring elaborate cooling/heatsinks.

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                                      • T
                                        taryezveb
                                        last edited by

                                        @phils:

                                        Mainly that it's fanless and noiseless, without requiring elaborate cooling/heatsinks.

                                        Ok, the same thing I was thinking. A non atom solution can also be solid state, but does take a little more effort. Since pretty much any atom solution usually only comes with a heatsink. Regardless there are trade offs to either setup. I prefer to error on the side of having more than I need and can also be used for something else if need be.

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                                        • M
                                          mrbostn
                                          last edited by

                                          Thought I'd add this.

                                          I'm running a Jetway Atom mobo 2GB RAM with the 3 Intel add on NICS. It's in an office setting with one T1, and one VPN connection to a remote office. There are 18 users. Users have been saying to me that the internet is slow. To test I fired up an old p4, added two Intel  NICS-users immediately said the "internet" was faster. I didn't do any formal testing, but the "internet" did seem faster. VPN was definately faster.

                                          I'm now spec'ing out a system to replace the Jetway Atom. Most probably a Sandy Bridge.

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                                          • P
                                            phils
                                            last edited by

                                            I'm running a Jetway Atom mobo 2GB RAM with the 3 Intel add on NICS. It's in an office setting with one T1, and one VPN connection to a remote office. There are 18 users. Users have been saying to me that the internet is slow. To test I fired up an old p4, added two Intel  NICS-users immediately said the "internet" was faster. I didn't do any formal testing, but the "internet" did seem faster. VPN was definately faster.

                                            I don't think anyone is suggesting to use an Atom without first looking at the requirements and determining throughput / VPN usage etc.

                                            Did you examine what CPU usage was going on on your Atom box when the internet was described as slow?

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