Watchguard XTM 5 Series

sammyji

Had been busy with this is parallel to my normal work (I did not have so much time, because I had hoped to have it finished).

However, my preliminary findings (pictures will come when I find the optimal solution):

Replacement of case & CPU fan is a huge success, this eliminates a lot of noise (understatement);

PSU fan can be modified, but it is in general noisy, currently thinking to go PicoPSU, currently investigating the options -> modifying PSU fan is not wortth the hassle in time (to investigate & find -> low noise replacements do not exist)

What PSU power would be correct, the one currenly build in is overpowered:

CPU=35W (Celeron

3 Fans = 0.48W*3=1.5W

Mobo = 25-40W

Mem=2~5W (orginal XTM 520 mem)

Enclosure = 5~10W (estimate)

Additional HD = 3W

This mean a total of 94.5W when all components are working at max performance.
From PicoPSU the following kits can be used (net yet tested myself):

picoPSU-160-XT + 192W Adapter Power Kit

picoPSU-150-XT + 150W Adapter Power Kit

picoPSU-150-XT + 102W Adapter Power Kit

picoPSU-120 + 102W Adapter Power Kit (not recommended because you need an additional cable to convert a molex to a 4 PIN ATX)

Update 5-4-2016:
I got my hands on a picoPSU-150-XT + 102W Adapter Power Kit for 50 euro, which is quite a OK deal in Europe. Tested it yesterday and the box is super duper quiet. However when you have the box in thermal mode once in a while the fans spin up, which is not preferable. Better it is to have the fans by default spin a little faster than they do in thermal mode, in general the CPU will be cooled better and will never reach the BIOS threshold. Currenlty thinking of a way how to adjust.
(Probably by putting the fans in super fast mode in BIOS and adjust the speed with a resistor)
I hope to test this afternoon.

Now I will see where I can get my hands on, to test this in my Firebox.

What fans did u get? I'm thinking of spending some time on the firebox, upgrading the CPU and memory and tackle the noise as well

So this is my buy list

CPU - Intel Core 2 Quad - Q8400 or Q8200 about $10 (have a 200MB line and will be using this for openVPN/voip/PBX)
Memory - have some DDR2 lying around - will try to see if that works with the new CPU
Fans - ?? CPU/Case. Will probably leave the PSU fan alone $20
Ears - cant find the right ears for the box - ended up getting the wrong ones and will probably use those elsewhere

Thinking what the Power hit would be with the CPU Change

Alup

@sammyji:

What fans did u get? I'm thinking of spending some time on the firebox, upgrading the CPU and memory and tackle the noise as well

So this is my buy list

CPU - Intel Core 2 Quad - Q8400 or Q8200 about $10 (have a 200MB line and will be using this for openVPN/voip/PBX)

Memory - have some DDR2 lying around - will try to see if that works with the new CPU

Fans - ?? CPU/Case. Will probably leave the PSU fan alone $20

Ears - cant find the right ears for the box - ended up getting the wrong ones and will probably use those elsewhere

Thinking what the Power hit would be with the CPU Change

Can you post a picture of the ears? If they are the ones for the XcoreE series Then I would buy them from you. I have been looking everywhere for ears for my x1250e and can not find any.

Also, an update on my XTM 5 box that will not power on. I think there is a problem with the bios chip its self, The chip is a M25P80-VMW6TG by ST. I bought 5 of them on ebay to replace the one that is on my board, the total cost of the 5 chips? A whopping $2.49 USD.. Why the heck did I not just do that in the first place.. If the new chips do not fix the issue then I guess my next step is to break out the logic analyzer and go through the board with that and a multimeter to find why the hell it wont power on. its not the PSU as I already replaced it with a new one.

sammyji

They are some generic ones. Will post a pic soon.

My xtm5 box refused to power on initially too. Ended up being a memory stick issue. Reseated and it came back on. Male sure to have only the necessary components in it first before you add the pcie riser/additional ram/etc. Try to boot it stock. Not saying that you've missed something, but I did and almost threw my xtm530 out.

Alup

@sammyji:

They are some generic ones. Will post a pic soon.

My xtm5 box refused to power on initially too. Ended up being a memory stick issue. Reseated and it came back on. Male sure to have only the necessary components in it first before you add the pcie riser/additional ram/etc. Try to boot it stock. Not saying that you've missed something, but I did and almost threw my xtm530 out.

So when you say that it refused to power on were you getting any thing at all out of it? Because when I hit the power button on mine i get nothing, I do not get any kind of life out of it at all unless I force it on via the AT power switch jumper.

Also, something interesting. I discovered that you can get the XTM's (or close to them) straight from china…. https://tostarcn.en.alibaba.com/product/60044665760-800205511/_1U280SF_NM70SL_1U_VPN_Firewall_with_2_SFP.html

Or heck we could even upgrade our XTM boxes: https://tostarcn.en.alibaba.com/product/60476540616-802197910/LGA_771_ATX_Power_G41_6_LAN_Motherboard_network_Server_Firewall_router_Motherboard.html

Smoothrunnings

@Alup:

@sammyji:

They are some generic ones. Will post a pic soon.

My xtm5 box refused to power on initially too. Ended up being a memory stick issue. Reseated and it came back on. Male sure to have only the necessary components in it first before you add the pcie riser/additional ram/etc. Try to boot it stock. Not saying that you've missed something, but I did and almost threw my xtm530 out.

So when you say that it refused to power on were you getting any thing at all out of it? Because when I hit the power button on mine i get nothing, I do not get any kind of life out of it at all unless I force it on via the AT power switch jumper.

Also, something interesting. I discovered that you can get the XTM's (or close to them) straight from china…. https://tostarcn.en.alibaba.com/product/60044665760-800205511/_1U280SF_NM70SL_1U_VPN_Firewall_with_2_SFP.html

Or heck we could even upgrade our XTM boxes: https://tostarcn.en.alibaba.com/product/60476540616-802197910/LGA_771_ATX_Power_G41_6_LAN_Motherboard_network_Server_Firewall_router_Motherboard.html

Looks cool but there is a problem with getting one of these boards. It's got a different layout than the Watchguard XTM 5 series that it would really onto be ideal if one bought the case and power supply as well.

Edit: Moved quote tags

Alup

@Smoothrunnings:

Looks cool but there is a problem with getting one of these boards. It's got a different layout than the Watchguard XTM 5 series that it would really onto be ideal if one bought the case and power supply as well.

i just got pissed off at it and bought this http://www.ebay.com/itm/231955673350

Smoothrunnings

@Alup:

@Smoothrunnings:

Looks cool but there is a problem with getting one of these boards. It's got a different layout than the Watchguard XTM 5 series that it would really onto be ideal if one bought the case and power supply as well.

i just got pissed off at it and bought this http://www.ebay.com/itm/231955673350

If I was going to replace my Watchguard XTM 510 the upgrade would have to be something like this.
https://tostarcn.en.alibaba.com/product/60037013540-800213290/Intel_B75_LGA1155_1u_Firewall_Server_with_6_LAN_and_Bypass_10_Gigabit_Optical_Card.html

Otherwise there is no point! :)

Alup

yeah but for the price that I got this "TrustWave" for I was like meh what the hell give it a shot. I will create a thread when I get it describing how to put PFSENSE on it.

I have a custom built pfSense box, im not really doing this for purpose of "setting up a firewall" Im getting it because I love making hardware do things it was not intended to do. I like stuff like this. Its more fun than anything else and if fun comes this cheap then so be it. Plus if i get it and give the specs/stats then others could get one too that dont have alot of cash and get a firewall for themselves.

The XTM box i got was only 26 dollars when i bought it so im not really that upset that i cant get it to boot.

sammyji

@Alup:

@sammyji:

They are some generic ones. Will post a pic soon.

My xtm5 box refused to power on initially too. Ended up being a memory stick issue. Reseated and it came back on. Male sure to have only the necessary components in it first before you add the pcie riser/additional ram/etc. Try to boot it stock. Not saying that you've missed something, but I did and almost threw my xtm530 out.

So when you say that it refused to power on were you getting any thing at all out of it? Because when I hit the power button on mine i get nothing, I do not get any kind of life out of it at all unless I force it on via the AT power switch jumper.

Also, something interesting. I discovered that you can get the XTM's (or close to them) straight from china…. https://tostarcn.en.alibaba.com/product/60044665760-800205511/_1U280SF_NM70SL_1U_VPN_Firewall_with_2_SFP.html

Or heck we could even upgrade our XTM boxes: https://tostarcn.en.alibaba.com/product/60476540616-802197910/LGA_771_ATX_Power_G41_6_LAN_Motherboard_network_Server_Firewall_router_Motherboard.html

When i powered on, the fans ran, nothing on console, no beeps when the memory was the issue.

PS : Rack ear pics attached - If you are local, you can pick them up for free :)

[Rack Ears.zip](/public/imported_attachments/1/Rack Ears.zip)
[Rack Ears.zip](/public/imported_attachments/1/Rack Ears.zip)

Alup

@sammyji:

When i powered on, the fans ran, nothing on console, no beeps when the memory was the issue.

PS : Rack ear pics attached - If you are local, you can pick them up for free :)

Well they look like they would fit it box but I dont think they are long enough to make up for the stupid size of the box to fit in the rack and mount. I had got some ears off an old dell powerconnect and drilled the holes to make it work for the xcoree and discovered that same thing.

if I can not get this xtm 5 to work then I will just send you the ears off it.

chpalmer

@Alup:

Well they look like they would fit it box but I dont think they are long enough to make up for the stupid size of the box to fit in the rack and mount.

On what box? The XTM just about takes up the entire width between my 19" rack..

Smoothrunnings

@Alup:

@sammyji:

When i powered on, the fans ran, nothing on console, no beeps when the memory was the issue.

PS : Rack ear pics attached - If you are local, you can pick them up for free :)

Well they look like they would fit it box but I dont think they are long enough to make up for the stupid size of the box to fit in the rack and mount. I had got some ears off an old dell powerconnect and drilled the holes to make it work for the xcoree and discovered that same thing.

if I can not get this xtm 5 to work then I will just send you the ears off it.

You know you can buy the ears from Watchguard right, or at least they will give you the info where you can buy them.

When I am on my other PC I will up this post with the actual Part# which I got from WatchGuard. I got it because initially the box I was going to buy didn't have any ears. But fortunately the boxes I did get, two XTM 510's, X750e, and x1250e all came with their ears. People have been selling their XTM 5's for about $150 on ebay and locally where I am, I got all 4 for $150. :)

Alup

As I have said before, I really just paid like 20 bucks for mine and the listing was labeled at parts/not working. I really was not expecting much so im not really out anything here. I may get a new one in the future but for now im not really worried about it.

EDIT: I just tried the ram that I had put in my XcoreE box in the XTM 5 box and it still would not boot. I then put the ram that came in the XTM 5 box in my XcoreE box and it booted and passed the ram test… So... its not a ram issue... I wonder if the PSU i have is not powerfull enough to fully supply the board with enough power. Hrm.... I will have to go and grab the 400watt psu i have upstairs and try it, maybe, if im really lucky that will make it boot.

EDIT2: Nope just tried it with a 400W PSU and still nothing. I will have to go though the board component by component and figure out what is fried.

Smoothrunnings

Check the capacitors on the board to see if any of them have leaked. You can figure this out by putting your finger on the top of them and see if they are bulging.

Try a different CPU maybe? Since these boards don't have any thing else you'll have to give that a try.

Smoothrunnings

@Alup:

yeah but for the price that I got this "TrustWave" for I was like meh what the hell give it a shot. I will create a thread when I get it describing how to put PFSENSE on it.

I have a custom built pfSense box, im not really doing this for purpose of "setting up a firewall" Im getting it because I love making hardware do things it was not intended to do. I like stuff like this. Its more fun than anything else and if fun comes this cheap then so be it. Plus if i get it and give the specs/stats then others could get one too that dont have alot of cash and get a firewall for themselves.

The XTM box i got was only 26 dollars when i bought it so im not really that upset that i cant get it to boot.

WG ears.

I got this from Watchgaurd's FB. I emailed them. I think there is a person in the UK that sells them on Ebay.

Rack Mount Kit 8 and 5 series P/N: WG8544

Good luck!

stephenw10

@Alup I don't recall having to use any special address offset when flashing the BIOS chip. I was using flashrom directly with that parallel port cable I made up and it detected it automatically.
It did require the PSU to be connected but not actively powered up, it still supplies 5V to the chip even when powered down.
The times it did manage to flash bad code to it preventing it booting it still powered up, fans and LEDs, but didn't beep or POST. That is a long while back now though. ;)

I don't think that PCIe extensions cable you linbked to will work. To use a regular PCIe card with the 'golden fingers' connector require s a female to female PCIe adapter and I've never seen one available.

Steve

Alup

Yeah, I think I have a blown fuse or something on the board. I originally thought this was a bios issue now im thinking its more like this thing got hit with a huge power surge and fried the board. You are right, that cable wont work without modifying it.

whats really strange is that on my setup if i have the board plugged in but not powered on and i try to flash the bios it fails. however if I unplug the board i am able to flash it. I use a Willem Programmer to flash it, its an old LPT one but it still works great.

Smoothrunnings

Is it possible to setup a heartbeat/failover link between two Watchguard XTM 5 series running pfsense? I would like to have this option so I can update one firewall fw, failover to the second, then update the fw on the second and failover to the first one to minimize the down time.

Thanks,

stephenw10

Sure set them up as an HA pair as you would for any hardware. I'd probably use the 100Mb port for the sync interface.

https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Configuring_pfSense_Hardware_Redundancy_(CARP)

Better to ask questions about that in the CARP board though as it's not hardware specific:
https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?board=36.0

Steve

Edit: Fixed link.

Smoothrunnings

@stephenw10:

Sure set them up as an HA pair as you would for any hardware. I'd probably use the 100Mb port for the sync interface.

https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Configuring_pfSense_Hardware_Redundancy_(CARP)

Steve

Hey Steve, this link doesn't have anything in it or on it. It works but the page only has the subject. :)

I have popped into the CARP thread and asked my question.

Thanks,