Intel NUC (4x4 motherboard)



  • A colleague sent me this link.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebr0AT2e_SU

    Possibly could make for a nice router platform?



  • I was looking at these today and thought that they arent that cheap for what you get - add ram and pricey msata ssd, and only one nic would mean an additional smart switch. Size is good though, and I'm thinking of getting a few for our space constrained ships.



  • Hoping to have one of these by end of week.  Intel Next Unit of Computing Kit DC3217IYE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebr0AT2e_SU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBFLCqeAQo4

    http://www.intel.com/
    Next Unit of Computing Kit
    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/search.html?keyword=Next+Unit+of+Computing+Kit

    Some direct links from the above search results page:

    Introducing Intel's Next Unit of Computing Kit DC3217IYE 
    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/desktops/dc3217iye-product-brief.html?wapkw=next+unit+of+computing+kit

    Next Unit of Computing Kit DC3217IYE — What's in the box  [10 K]
    http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/dc3217iye/sb/CS-033807.htm?wapkw=next+unit+of+computing+kit

    Support for the Next Unit of Computing Kit DC3217IYE  [35 K]
    http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/highlights/dsktpboards/dk-dc3217iye?wapkw=next+unit+of+computing+kit



  • It's up and running on USB Flash drive.

    LAN: em0
    WAN: em0_vlan98



  • Has anyone added a USB Gb NIC? Would love to use this as a solution instead of the system I just got:
    SUPERMICRO SYS-5017C-LF 1U w/ i3 2100 and 4Gb ram



  • @miker1000000:

    Has anyone added a USB Gb NIC? Would love to use this as a solution instead of the system I just got:
    SUPERMICRO SYS-5017C-LF 1U w/ i3 2100 and 4Gb ram

    I have not.  Only installed pfSense on it to verify that it would work, then installed Windows 8 and went back to the old notebook pfSense router.  Would you really need a second NIC?  I prefer putting the WAN on a VLAN.


  • Netgate Administrator

    I have searched for this a few times but come up blank on each occasion. The HDMI 1.4 spec includes HEC (HDMI Ethernet Channel) which is intended to connect internet enabled TVs and BD players etc. There seems to be no reason why it couldn't be used as an ethernet adapter if it is included. I have just searched again specifically for the NUC and found nothing. Thoughts?

    Steve



  • Almost certain these devices don't have the ethernet channel present in the HDMI.

    I got one and it is awesome, 256gb M4 and 16gb DDR 1600. I have a genuine 9w idle and under severe load no more than 18-20w. 30w max load under a GPU+CPU stress test. Turn off all the speedstep and power saving and still have a 13w idle. The most impressive thing is that it is low power almost always, unlike full size boards that idle pretty well but ramp up quickly this thing is barely ever above 15w, regardless of the OS support for power saving, idling VM's etc.

    Onboard nic is good but patchy driver support, I've tried ESXi5.1 (custom e1000e driver), Server 2012/Hyper-V (hacked Win8 driver) but pfsense out of box.

    There is room for a PCIE nic, either http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/1500/?utm_source=Pangora&utm_medium=CPC  or http://www.mini-tft.de/xtc-neu/product_info.php/info/p145114_Speed-Dragon-MNW02A–-Half-Size-Mini-PCI-Express-G.html

    Of course, if you require the SSD in there then fitting the Intel NIC is going to be hard because you are only left with a half size slot. I may put a PCIE extender in there on a ribbon to break out onto the Intel (there is internal room). The half size could should fit with just a little modding. Just need to fashion some kind of breakout cable which is no big deal!



  • @Magsy:

    Almost certain these devices don't have the ethernet channel present in the HDMI.

    I got one and it is awesome, 256gb M4 and 16gb DDR 1600. I have a genuine 9w idle and under severe load no more than 18-20w. 30w max load under a GPU+CPU stress test. Turn off all the speedstep and power saving and still have a 13w idle. The most impressive thing is that it is low power almost always, unlike full size boards that idle pretty well but ramp up quickly this thing is barely ever above 15w, regardless of the OS support for power saving, idling VM's etc.

    Onboard nic is good but patchy driver support, I've tried ESXi5.1 (custom e1000e driver), Server 2012/Hyper-V (hacked Win8 driver) but pfsense out of box.

    There is room for a PCIE nic, either http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/1500/?utm_source=Pangora&utm_medium=CPC  or http://www.mini-tft.de/xtc-neu/product_info.php/info/p145114_Speed-Dragon-MNW02A–-Half-Size-Mini-PCI-Express-G.html

    Of course, if you require the SSD in there then fitting the Intel NIC is going to be hard because you are only left with a half size slot. I may put a PCIE extender in there on a ribbon to break out onto the Intel (there is internal room). The half size could should fit with just a little modding. Just need to fashion some kind of breakout cable which is no big deal!

    These guys may have some breakout cables that may help your goal.  http://www.hwtools.net/

    They have crazy stuff.  While looking through their products I often stop and think: "Wait, what?  You can do that?  and why would you want to?"  Their prices look decent, but they ship from Taiwan, so shipping can often raise the price significantly (sometimes double.)

    When I say crazy, I mean they have 2 different adapters to take mini Pci-Express out to an external board with a PCI-Express slot; one of which they make a nice plexiglass case for a video card and power supply; oh, and a nice power board so you can use a standard ATX power supply with it.  Or Express Card to external PCI-Express; they have 2 versions of that, one with the big plex case or one with a smaller aluminum case, but the aluminum case won't fit super large video cards.

    Respectively:
    http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/DB5L.html
    http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4H.html
    http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4H V3.2.html

    It gets better from there, like SD card to micro SD card adapters… but in the opposite direction, to get a full size SD card to work in a Micro slot.

    Enjoy!



  • @stephenw10:

    I have searched for this a few times but come up blank on each occasion. The HDMI 1.4 spec includes HEC (HDMI Ethernet Channel) which is intended to connect internet enabled TVs and BD players etc. There seems to be no reason why it couldn't be used as an ethernet adapter if it is included. I have just searched again specifically for the NUC and found nothing. Thoughts?

    Steve

    This looks cool, Ethernet over hdmi is only 100/Mbps though. I will need to brush up on my VLAN to get it to work I think, or maybe a usb adapter that is compatible with PFsense. My 1U device hasnt shipped so I canceled the order.. more testing to come!



  • there is dual intel nic avaliable in a full size mini pcie card here
    http://www.globalamericaninc.com/commell-mpx-574d2.html
    would give thiss unit a lot more expandability


  • Netgate Administrator

    That's an interesting product, it appears to be Intel 82574L based as well which is a bonus.

    However if you check the manufacturers (Commell) page, here they say:

    Note : MPX-574D2 is compatible with COMMELL boards ONLY and only compatible with boards shown below!

    So possibly some compatibility issues, non standard use of the socket?

    Steve



  • What's nice about the Intel DC3217IYE is that it uses the QS77 chipset.  There is more than enough bandwidth on this chipset to run multiple devices without bogging it down.  It would make an awesome pfSense SOHO pfSense devices if they removed one of the HDMI ports and added another NIC.

    It's low-power and high on features.  NewEgg has them listed for $299 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856102002&Tpk=DC3217IYE), and if it had a second NIC, I'd be buying one right now (not that I need one, but I could easily "find" someone who needs one).



  • @tim.mcmanus:

    NewEgg has them listed for $299 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856102002&Tpk=DC3217IYE)

    • $10 off w/ promo code 72SALE1, ends 1/31 (today)


  • What about adding an Ethernet port or two on the mini PCIe, there are two of them on the NUC.

    http://www.bvm-store.com/ProductDetail.asp?fdProductId=547

    http://www.bvm-store.com/ProductDetail.asp?fdProductId=548)


  • Netgate Administrator

    Like it says on that page, and the page I linked to three posts up, these cards are not compatible with all boards that have a minipci-e slot. It makes me wonder why not. There are some posts about using this card in a macmini where it works OK once you have the drivers in place, so it's not an exclusive to Commell pin-use for example.
    I think I'm saying that there are no guarantees this will work.  ;)

    Steve



  • There are other mini pcie ethernet options. Last time i looked jetway had a couple of intel models and there was one on ebay. Chipset cant remember.



  • Has anyone considered using one of these in conjunction with a Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapter like the one Apple sells:

    http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD463ZM/A/thunderbolt-to-gigabit-ethernet-adapter

    I understand that these adapters use a Broadcom BCM5701 which is supported via the bge driver in FreeBSD.



  • Problem is that the nuc with thunderbolt dosn't has a seperate rj45 interface. I would also like to use a nuc as fw (vlan workaround is not an option for me)



  • 15W Haswell-based NUC
    dual mPCIe/SATA slots
    HD 5000 graphics


    Source: vr-zone



  • Hi major thread bump

    But did anyone in the end ever manage to build a successful Intel Nuc with pfsense ?

    I see lots of links and interest on this thread and was considering doing the same thing myself,  I like the idea of the dual nic cards which I had no idea existed even…

    It is such a shame the usb to ethernet dongles are said to be unstable and require high cpu usage....



  • I haven't yet used the NUC, but I am ordering for use as both an Access Point and Firewall/Router. I have extra 204pin DDR3 RAM and a 24GB mSATA, and mPCIe WiFi card so I can't gauge the cost for the average person. The only thing I have to buy is a second NIC which I'm buying the Rosewill RNG-406U, USB3.0 to gigabit ethernet. Which I don't understand why people think they can't use USB, I've been running an Atom N270 2GB 666MHz RAM based pfsense box at my mom's, with a USB2.0 gigabit adapter, all you do is use it on the WAN side, my Internet would never even get close to topping out USB2.0 480Mbit rate, and the CPU rarely runs above 10%. I'm also connecting a SMA connector to the top outside of the box, and connecting them to the antenna ports on the WIfi Card, allowing me to mount the antennas -which I have 3x 12dbm- on top and modular adaptation. Off the LAN side will go into my 8 port with 4 ports PoE D-Link switch. So it should do everything I want it to do and more. I'll let you know.



  • I have pFsense v2.1 running on the NUC. Using VLANS through a Netgear GS116E.

    Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-3217U CPU @ 1.80GHz
    Current: 1700 MHz, Max: 1800 MHz
    4 CPUs: 1 package(s) x 2 core(s) x 2 SMT threads



  • This really is the right solution for the NUC.  (Though I use a somewhat larger fanless HP switch at home, and the similar D-Link switches have a CLI, so you don't have to run the Windows utility to program them.)

    I'm trying to get AES-NI fixed in FreeBSD, so IPSEC and OpenVPN will be (much) faster.  Won't help you on your i3-3217U,
    but the i5 3rd gen, and both i3 and i5 Haswell-based NUCs will all support AES-NI.

    A better setup might be to load bhyve or VMwear on the NUC, and put pfSense in a VM.  It only needs a few (1-2GB at most) GB for
    most home setups.  You can put 16GB and a 240GB 'SDD' in the current NUCs, and there is one coming that will allow a 2.5" SATA SSD inside the case.

    The alternative is the new 8-core (out of order execution) Atom.



  • I might also add that the whole setup uses less that 30 Watts as measured by the UPS and is totally near silent.

    This is what is on the UPS:

    1xNUC (120GB mSate, 16GB 1333 MHz DDR3)
    1xGS116E Switch
    1xGS108PEv2 POE Switch (load: 2xPolycom IP 335 VOIP phones, 1xAXIS M3007 Camera, 1xEnGenius EAP350 WiFI AP)
    1xLinksys PAP2-T VOIP ATA.



  • @daniev:

    I might also add that the whole setup uses less that 30 Watts as measured by the UPS and is totally near silent.

    Technically, the NUC has a fan, so it's making some noise.  Not a lot, but a little bit.



  • I have managed to get pfSense up and running on a new Haswell i5 NUC (D54250WYK).

    I installed Ubuntu 13.10 (had to disable UEFI to get Ubuntu install to be recognized on boot).
    I used VLAN's in Ubuntu and used a Netgear GS108E to trunk WAN/LAN/GUEST to the NUC.
    I installed VirtualBox and bound the virtual NIC's (3 total) to each respective VLAN interface.
    I installed pfSense with 2 processors, 4GB of space, and 1GB of RAM.

    I'm pushing something pretty close to the limit of the WAN for simple routing.  Speedtest showed around 360 mbit/sec down and 460 mbit/sec up.  Faster than I've ever seen on my connection so I'm pretty happy with that.

    I only seem to be pushing about 100 mbit/sec of IPSec VPN traffic … I feel like it should be able to push more, but I'm not sure what bottleneck I'm running into.  Could use some advice on that.  Was not successful in establishing a local IPSec connection to the WAN side to do further testing.



  • @rkuo:

    I installed Ubuntu 13.10 (had to disable UEFI to get Ubuntu install to be recognized on boot).
    I used VLAN's in Ubuntu and used a Netgear GS108E to trunk WAN/LAN/GUEST to the NUC.
    I installed VirtualBox and bound the virtual NIC's (3 total) to each respective VLAN interface.
    I installed pfSense with 2 processors, 4GB of space, and 1GB of RAM.

    curious, why not just install pfSense directly? why did you have to install Ubuntu first? VM purposes?



  • @daniev:

    I might also add that the whole setup uses less that 30 Watts as measured by the UPS and is totally near silent.

    This is what is on the UPS:

    1xNUC (120GB mSate, 16GB 1333 MHz DDR3)
    1xGS116E Switch
    1xGS108PEv2 POE Switch (load: 2xPolycom IP 335 VOIP phones, 1xAXIS M3007 Camera, 1xEnGenius EAP350 WiFI AP)
    1xLinksys PAP2-T VOIP ATA.

    what kind of throughput are you getting? thinking of doing that for my home setup but not sure how it will handle torrenting



  • Nice to see others attempting to use these intel nucs as pfsense boxes :)

    I always liked the nucs with their low energy,  it is good to hear the core i5 nucs with AES pushing up to 100meg on VPNs also.

    AES makes a nice difference and less energy being used.

    Only factor I hate is having to add a vlan to the mix and even more cables/power requirements.

    Surprised no one really tried an mini pcie network card to add dual networks…

    Those core i3 or celerons should do well enough for most connections but I feel with guys with 100meg+ on VPNs an AES enabled cpu should do much better energy use wise and help increase speed.

    Many of these core i3 haswell and low energy core i5s with 35 watts seem to have poor performance, seems a core i5 full desktop cpu with aes should do the trick,  may need to stick with a regular desktop pfsense build.

    I rechecked these new baytrail atoms,  and could have sworn one or 2 had AES but checked again and cant see any otherwise they may have been ideal,  another option I was toying with was mobile core i3/core i5 cpus however as I have noticed the lower energy cpus have often poorer performance in general compared to desktop cpus....



  • I used Ubuntu both because the VM made it easy to port over and backup for later reconfiguration, plus the latest release of pfSense 2.1 apparently does not support the onboard Intel NIC.

    I tried an ASIX 88179 USB 3.0 to Ethernet adapter, but it kept resetting every few minutes or dying on the host OS.  No good.  So VLAN's it is.

    I do not think AES is supported well either in pfSense or thru VirtualBox.  I get around 160MB/sec of throughput in the VM.  I get about 3.5x that with the evp option on the host … dropping back to similar speeds as the VM with the evp option off.



  • I know someone who has tried a celeron (without AES instructions) he showed under pfsense cpu utilization that it hit 90% cpu load but when he changed it for a Xeon v2 1220 cpu,  under pfsense cpu utilization it went to 20% cpu usage.

    I think its the cpu that does the AES work load,  not pfsense.  Of course the VPN provider needs to be using AES encryption.

    He noted improved speeds also….

    I still wish we had a router on the market with dual core 3ghz with AES just to make sure everyone maxxed out there VPN/OpenVPN speeds or connections in general,  but guess until openVPN do not release there 3.x software and untill pfsense upgrades to it then it will never use multiple cores.

    Regarding the usb adaptors,  many on here have suggested they perform badly and are unreliable only intel network chipsets work well and are reliable.  I am looking at hp intel 364T quad nic cards or the dual nic versions for reliability.

    I think ill stick with a 3ghz(v2 1220 cpu) xeon quad workstation with a decent intel nic card for 100% good speeds/reliability if stability and speed is your thing I guess it can't be beat but its tad excessive I admit !



  • @Fevan:

    Surprised no one really tried an mini pcie network card to add dual networks…

    I thought about doing that, but the only available case I could see that can be modified was kind of pricey

    http://www.logicsupply.com/components/cases/fanless/ml320/

    But, even more limiting for me was that I wanted to use the mini PCIe slot for mSATA. The other mini PCIe slot is only half-height and I don't see any NIC solutions for half-hight PCIe, only full height like this one:

    http://www.logicsupply.com/components/expansion-cards/8111me-d/



  • Quite true regarding the half size slot,  some of these nucs do have a sata port but still tricky.

    These nucs are great I admit and the cpus seem powerful enough but they are energy efficient design so performance will be down compared to a normal desktop cpu,  but again as you said the case/expansion option and overall cost factor are major.

    They would need an intel nuc with 2 intel nics and the newer haswell core i3/i5s with AES to boot for it to be a solid option.

    A few SFF systems do exist with 2 nics and similar options but I find something always missing or wrong like no AES support or the nics are realtek… realtek just seems evil since its always default option ;)

    I think give it a year or 2 and maybe a 20-30watt intel nuc or other sff system like with aes and hopefully the right expansion options or dual intel nics arrives, either that or a decent router with the right options!


  • Netgate Administrator

    Whilst the low power processors are less capable than the desktop versions they are still very capable. I'd be amazed if any if them couldn't do 100Mbps OpenVPN. Also I'd hope to see power consumption drop lower than 20W given what's already possible:
    http://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog/8217/fluffy2-59-watt-high-end-desktop-computer.html

    Steve



  • @pookguy88:

    @daniev:

    I might also add that the whole setup uses less that 30 Watts as measured by the UPS and is totally near silent.

    This is what is on the UPS:

    1xNUC (120GB mSate, 16GB 1333 MHz DDR3)
    1xGS116E Switch
    1xGS108PEv2 POE Switch (load: 2xPolycom IP 335 VOIP phones, 1xAXIS M3007 Camera, 1xEnGenius EAP350 WiFI AP)
    1xLinksys PAP2-T VOIP ATA.

    what kind of throughput are you getting? thinking of doing that for my home setup but not sure how it will handle torrenting

    I did it more as a hobby and security than for heavy load, speed tests show 84Mbs down 39Mbs up. FIOS on demand TV is probably the heaviest load (it uses IP and not QAM) and in our home we can have 2 HD streams without any noticeable affect.



  • In an amusing turn of events, I set the VirtualBox VM for pfSense to 1 core instead of 2 cores.  And got an ipsec throughput improvement from 100mbit to 200mbit.  Shouldn't that work in reverse? :)

    Anyway, clearly VirtualBox is not the best at this.  Would be nice to see this running on the native NUC hardware when the support is available.



  • @stephenw10:

    Whilst the low power processors are less capable than the desktop versions they are still very capable. I'd be amazed if any if them couldn't do 100Mbps OpenVPN. Also I'd hope to see power consumption drop lower than 20W given what's already possible:
    http://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog/8217/fluffy2-59-watt-high-end-desktop-computer.html

    Steve

    Yeah I agree,  I was looking into mobile cpus even….

    But I quickly find always hardware issues like realtek nics and less expansion slots or options.

    I would love one day for someone to run some full test on a 20-30watt pfsense box under AES/VPN speeds and output.

    I still feel for overall reliability if you got a pfsense box running 24/7 a xeon/server base pc will be better with its ECC server ram and an SSD and intel nics to boot and in some ways you kinda loose power efficiency but gain reliability. Cost wise you can get servers cheap off ebay usually just as cheap if not cheaper then a power efficiency setup.



  • @Fevan:

    I still feel for overall reliability if you got a pfsense box running 24/7 a xeon/server base pc will be better with its ECC server ram and an SSD and intel nics to boot and in some ways you kinda loose power efficiency but gain reliability.

    Sure, until you add so many NICs and CPU cores that you start hitting bugs in the igb driver and your system panics.  :)



  • @Jason:

    @Fevan:

    I still feel for overall reliability if you got a pfsense box running 24/7 a xeon/server base pc will be better with its ECC server ram and an SSD and intel nics to boot and in some ways you kinda loose power efficiency but gain reliability.

    Sure, until you add so many NICs and CPU cores that you start hitting bugs in the igb driver and your system panics.  :)

    Does this really happen with pfsense ?

    I had no idea… was considering to order off a nice 4way quad nic card and perhaps a xeon server !

    Are you suggesting a dual core and less nics like 2 are more reliable then ?