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    Installation = portable USB hard drive

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Problems Installing or Upgrading pfSense Software
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    • W
      Wepee
      last edited by

      Hi All,

      I would like to ask the forum members about installing pfSense on a portable USB drive.
      Something like a Western Digital Element: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=470#Tab3

      I am thinking of buying one to try, since I don't have any spare SATA/ IDE hard disk to
      install pfsense.

      Is there any advantage or disadvantage?

      Can a normal portable USB hard drive designed to operate at 24/7 operation?

      Your advice is much appreciated.

      Thank you.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • R
        robi
        last edited by

        Use a 4GB USB stick with NanoBSD or Memstick install image. It's optimized to run from that and will NOT wear out the flash.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • W
          Wepee
          last edited by

          Hi robi,

          My purpose of posting this query is to ask forum users whether
          they have installed pfSense on a USB powered portable hard disk

          So electrically is not the same a Flash or USB thumb drive (no moving parts)
          Physically, there are mechanical parts running in the drive-USB powered portable hard disk (platters).

          I do not want to install the NanoBSD version which is meant for
          USB thumb drive installation…... which also designed to write less on
          the thumb drive to prevent wearing out on the NAND memory chips.

          The reason of not going for NanoBSD is every pfSense update
          on the NanoBSD version, it breaks my Snort component, currently it
          won't start at all. Unless I change to the Full install version of pfSense
          using a LiveCD or Memstick, Snort will run without problem. :)
          Secondly the response, is quite slow compares to hard disk installation.

          I hope you can understand where I am coming from. :D
          I hope someone out there can give some kind of feedback whether
          it is durable to run pfSense on a usb powered portable hard drive
          at 24/7 operation.

          Thank you.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • stephenw10S
            stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
            last edited by

            The hard drive itself in an external enclosure is no less capable than a regular drive. Indeed you could argue it's a more robust drive since it has to withstand far more movement and shocks than a standard internal drive.
            However the same cannot br said about the connection to the board. I would not expect a usb connection to spontaneously fail but the potential is always there for the cable to get pulled out. You will be using a set of drivers that most users aren't so any bugs that may exist will be found by you.  ;) pfSense doesn't support USB 3 so thd drive speed will be limited.

            Internal drives are generally cheaper, can you not use one?

            Steve

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            • W
              Wepee
              last edited by

              However the same cannot be said about the connection to the board. I would not expect a usb connection to spontaneously fail but the potential is always there for the cable to get pulled out.

              This will not be an issue to me, as I have a USB riser connected to the
              motherboard's USB ports (normally you find 2 of the USB 2.0 ports on
              any motherboard)

              So, in other words, the USB powered portable hard drive will be placed
              and mounted securely inside the PC case…..not a chance of being pulled out accidentally. :)

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • W
                Wepee
                last edited by

                You will be using a set of drivers that most users aren't so any bugs that may exist will be found by you.  ;) pfSense doesn't support USB 3 so thd drive speed will be limited.

                Yes, I do understand that pfSense OS does not support USB 3.0 yet at the beginning.
                It will be definitely fall back on using USB 2.0 connection.

                Drivers? Can you elaborate more on this? Do I know to install new drivers
                for the USB powered portable hard drive to work?? :-\

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • W
                  Wepee
                  last edited by

                  Internal drives are generally cheaper, can you not use one?

                  Yes, correct! When I do the comparison the difference is only 10 bucks
                  using the same capacity = 500 GB

                  WD CAVIAR BLUE 500GB 16M SATA-6 = $157

                  vs

                  WD ELEMENTS 500GB USB3.0 2.5in = $ 167

                  I think the only advantage of using WD CAVIAR BLUE 500GB 16M SATA-6
                  is the SATA transfer speed will be faster than WD ELEMENTS 500GB USB3.0 2.5in
                  since it is falling back on USB 2.0 speed and not USB 3.0, which is about 60MB/s
                  theoretically.

                  The advantage of using  WD ELEMENTS 500GB USB3.0 2.5in is it comsumes
                  less power = 5V @ 1A and of course, generate less heat.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • stephenw10S
                    stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                    last edited by

                    You would not need to load any new drivers, they are all in the kernel already. I just meant that say, for example, there is some bug in the driver for your USB chipset that causes it to go to standby power after 24 hours. It's unlikely anyone else running pfSense will have found that. The code that runs the disk subsystem is very well tested, every FreeBSD box uses it, the USB is less so.

                    The drive in an external HD is a laptop drive like any other. If you get a 2.5" drive it should consume approximately the same power.

                    If you're mounting it internally anyway I can see almost no reason to use a USB drive.

                    $167 seems very expensive for a 500GB drive if that's US dollars.

                    Basically, you can run from a USB drive but I wouldn't recommend it. If you already have the drive and are doing this for test purposes then fine but otherwise I can't see any good reason to do so.

                    Steve

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • K
                      kejianshi
                      last edited by

                      Before you spend too much of your hard earned cash on a sata 6 drive, compare performance:

                      http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701277.pdf

                      Plus 500GB is usually wasted on pfsense.  Small SSD for same price would be smarter.

                      Plus you might actually see some benefit on that SATA 6 interface with SSD.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • W
                        Wepee
                        last edited by

                        You would not need to load any new drivers, they are all in the kernel already. I just meant that say, for example, there is some bug in the driver for your USB chipset that causes it to go to standby power after 24 hours.

                        Hmmm…...then I better stick with a normal SATA hard disk. ::)
                        Just to avoid the fuss of fixing the PC- troubleshooting what is wrong,
                        as I am not an Unix geek.

                        $167 seems very expensive for a 500GB drive is that's US dollars.

                        Actually the $ dollar sign is in my own country currency, I just showing the price difference. :)

                        Basically, you can run from a USB drive but I wouldn't recommend it. If you already have the drive and are doing this for test purposes then fine but otherwise I can't see any good reason to do so.

                        Ok, Steve, thank for your advice, I am going source out a small 2nd hand SATA hard disk,
                        and do away the USB powered hard disk, just to save me the hassle later on if I do
                        experience of disconnection issue coming from the USB stand-by power bug ;)

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • W
                          Wepee
                          last edited by

                          Plus 500GB is usually wasted on pfsense.  Small SSD for same price would be smarter.

                          Yes, 500GB is a waste of space and money as well.
                          I did think of that, but for me….. SSD is not a good choice,
                          because if I am going install squid, I need to do some configuration
                          in pfSense, to write less often or do away the cache in order
                          to prolong the longevity of the SSD. I also need to get "Trim"
                          working as well as which I don't know how at the moment.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • K
                            kejianshi
                            last edited by

                            True - All true.

                            Do limit the size of your squid cache to something not huge.

                            Even if you have a 500GB drive, don't make a 400GB cache or anything.

                            It takes alot of ram to index a huge cache.

                            Device Model:    SAMSUNG MCCOE64G5MPP-0VA
                            Serial Number:    SE816A2746
                            LU WWN Device Id: 5 0000f0 050533030
                            Firmware Version: PS105006
                            User Capacity:    64,023,257,088 bytes [64.0 GB]
                            Sector Size:      512 bytes logical/physical
                            Rotation Rate:    Solid State Device
                            Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]
                            ATA Version is:  ATA/ATAPI-7 T13/1532D revision 1
                            Local Time is:    Fri Nov  7 03:34:44 2014 EST
                            SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
                            SMART support is: Enabled

                            === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
                            SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

                            Mine is running without any trim…  Depends on what kind of SSD you get as to if you need trim and how durable it is. 
                            This one only has 2.5 years on it though.  I'll let you know in 5 years if its really really durable.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • W
                              Wepee
                              last edited by

                              Device Model:    SAMSUNG MCCOE64G5MPP-0VA
                              Serial Number:    SE816A2746
                              LU WWN Device Id: 5 0000f0 050533030
                              Firmware Version: PS105006
                              User Capacity:    64,023,257,088 bytes [64.0 GB]
                              Sector Size:      512 bytes logical/physical
                              Rotation Rate:    Solid State Device
                              Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]
                              ATA Version is:  ATA/ATAPI-7 T13/1532D revision 1
                              Local Time is:    Fri Nov  7 03:34:44 2014 EST
                              SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
                              SMART support is: Enabled

                              Check out the URL: http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=MCCOE64G5MPP-0VA

                              I can see that your SSD is not a the NORMAL/Cheaper type of SSD in the market.
                              Yours is the SLC type = Single Level Cell.
                              The common ones in the market is the MLC = Multi Level Cell.

                              You can read up the difference btw the 2 type of memory here:
                              http://www.supertalent.com/datasheets/SLC_vs_MLC%20whitepaper.pdf

                              The bottom line is SLC is more durable in the terms of writing data many many times over.
                              compare to MLC. You do not have to worry much when you have SLC type SSD installed
                              for your pfSense firewall. Having said that, you probably don't have to get "trim" working.

                              However, SLC type SSD cost more than MLC type.

                              So in conclusion, I will be better sticking with normal desktop SATA hard disk
                              which will be suffice to complete my small project. ;D

                              Thank you for advice. :D

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • K
                                kejianshi
                                last edited by

                                That will work…

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • stephenw10S
                                  stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                                  last edited by

                                  I'll just point out that there are no bugs in the USB subsystem that I know of. I just used that as an example of what could happen.

                                  Steve

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