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    A hardy "Welcome!" to OPNsense!

    Off-Topic & Non-Support Discussion
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    • M
      Mr. Jingles
      last edited by

      Mr.Jongles and Mr. Jangles, creative thinkers and entrepeneurs.

      Can you please ban this?

      ( 8) )

      ;D ;D ;D

      6 and a half billion people know that they are stupid, agressive, lower life forms.

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      • K
        kejianshi
        last edited by

        I'm a whore for whatever works best for me…  No allegiances. 
        So, I'm on pfsense - for my needs its best by far.
        If opensense gets to be better, I'll switch, but thats a pretty tall order.

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        • M
          Mr. Jingles
          last edited by

          @kejianshi:

          I'm a whore for whatever works best for me…  No allegiances. 
          So, I'm on pfsense - for my needs its best by far.
          If opensense gets to be better, I'll switch, but thats a pretty tall order.

          I'm not a whore, I'm a loyal dude, WIFE appreciate me that way too (says I'm still handsome)  ;D

          My position is a little bit more subtile: I do believe in loyalty. This project (A. admins + B. community of users) has given so much to me, and I do feel welcome here, and (most) people are nice and kind, that I will not walk: even not if opnsense, magically (…), would become better than pfSense. I'd rather stay and help. Of course, IF project (A, B), atmosphere, etc change then I would be forced to move on.

          I doubt that will happen in my lifetime  :P

          6 and a half billion people know that they are stupid, agressive, lower life forms.

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          • M
            Montaro
            last edited by

            I've been a reasonably long time pfSense user, and recently started contributing some patches here and there. I don't know if its just my loyalty to the pfSense project, or my own morals intervening here, but my recent discovery of this "OPNsense" project has left a sour taste in my mouth.

            At a first glance it looks like a straight search and replace of "pfSense" to "OPNsense", a few alterations of author names on files where they really haven't done anything to it.

            I don't like it, at all. I get that Open Source projects are there to be forked if the need/desire requires, but it really feels like they've done a search/replace and slapped a new UI theme on the GUI (easily done imho) and released a build.

            I feel like they really should have taken to the time to implement some new ideas, features, enhancements, etc that really set it apart from pfSense before just rebranding it and releasing it. Feels like they just wanted to cash in on the "Commercial Support" and "Professional services".

            I hope I'm wrong, and I really do hope they come up with some good ideas and not just a fancy GUI. But I think it'd take me alot to switch. I like new things, but when it comes to the system that essentially runs my whole network, I try to stick to the "if it's not broken, don't fix it" saying.

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            • C
              Cino
              last edited by

              @montaro I couldn't agree anymore

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              • DerelictD
                Derelict LAYER 8 Netgate
                last edited by

                If you make changes to pfSense, the resulting product CANNOT be called pfSense or anything similar. You can call the result any name you like so long as it is distinct from pfSense. As in earlier points, you can state that it's based on pfSense, forked from pfSense, and so on. Stating facts is fine, but creating an association in the product name is not. This is also necessary to protect the trademark.

                Examples:
                        "pfSomething", or "somethingSense" – NOT OK
                        "ExampleWall", "FireWidget" -- OK

                http://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Can_I_sell_pfSense

                cough OPNsense cough

                IANAL but if I was on a jury I would be inclined to consider you defending "sense" a stronger position than "pf".  tcpSense, ipSense, fwSense, etc vs. pfWall, pfEase, pfBarrier, pfPerimiter (?!?) etc.  pf existed before the project.

                Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA
                A comprehensive network diagram is worth 10,000 words and 15 conference calls.
                DO NOT set a source address/port in a port forward or firewall rule unless you KNOW you need it!
                Do Not Chat For Help! NO_WAN_EGRESS(TM)

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                • ?
                  Guest
                  last edited by

                  @Derelict:

                  IANAL but if I was on a jury I would be inclined to consider you defending "sense" a stronger position than "pf".  tcpSense, ipSense, fwSense, etc vs. pfWall, pfEase, pfBarrier, pfPerimiter (?!?) etc.  pf existed before the project.

                  You're not a lawyer, but we have IP lawyers (who specialize in trademark) on retainer.

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                  • K
                    kapara
                    last edited by

                    I would agree that changing the license without warning would cause some alarm.  If it is just that you must use the name pfSense then that is not too troubling to me.  I think the real concern is whether or not the long term goals of where pfSense is going is of more importance.  Many times I have used open source products and to depend on the product and then the company switches gears and offers a stripped down community version and a paid version which has all the features.

                    I have not read anything leading me to believe this but I also have not read anything contrary to this.  I think having another option is good as I really don't see it as being harmful to the pfSense project unless the goal for Netgate is to lock it down and force users to pay for the product.  I am not expecting Netgate to disclose what their future plans are for pfSense but not knowing does create a cause of concern for some.

                    I have been using pfSense for many years and will continue to do so until given a reason not to like limiting the functionality, charging for the software, or forcing me to use Netgate branded hardware only.

                    Skype ID:  Marinhd

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                    • P
                      phil.davis
                      last edited by

                      I am not expecting Netgate to disclose what their future plans are for pfSense but not knowing does create a cause of concern for some.

                      Netgate is not the same as pfSense. But of course Netgate is selling hardware with pfSense on it.
                      ESF (the pfSense company) has provided a roadmap here: https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=89436.0
                      For the next few years we all know what the direction is.

                      Link fixed (I hope)

                      As the Greek philosopher Isosceles used to say, "There are 3 sides to every triangle."
                      If I helped you, then help someone else - buy someone a gift from the INF catalog http://secure.inf.org/gifts/usd/

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                      • K
                        kapara
                        last edited by

                        Link does not work.

                        Skype ID:  Marinhd

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                        • K
                          kapara
                          last edited by

                          Glad you like the comment.  Thank you for fixing the link and I did read through it.  By the way the link mentions nothing regarding the "road map" regarding licensing.  The post discusses the future development. It makes no reference to the major changes which are referenced here on the opensense website.

                          And since last year they are not freely available any more, you need to apply for access with ESF. We believe a good open source project has nothing to hide so access to the sources should be there for all. It will remain a mystery why ESF made that move as commit rights and read rights are totally different.

                          https://wiki.opnsense.org/index.php/OPNsense:So_why_did_we_fork%3F

                          Transparency A real concern with pfSense is transparency. Since Netgate bought the majority share of pfSense and renamed the company to ESF it has been difficult to understand the direction they want the project to go. Removing the tools from github without prior warning and using the brand name to fence of competitors has scared quite a lot of people. Also the license has changed for no apparent reason…

                          Understand I personally have no issue with the changes as of yet as it has no negative impact to the way I use it though ESF nor Netgate made any reference to these changes in that post.

                          Skype ID:  Marinhd

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                          • DerelictD
                            Derelict LAYER 8 Netgate
                            last edited by

                            As I understand it, the principals are:

                            Chris Buechler (cmb)
                            Jim Pingle (jimp)
                            Jim Thompson / Netgate (gonzopancho)

                            Also, as I understand it, netgate is not pfSense and pfSense it not netgate but there was an investment into ESF by netgate.  Might be all wet, but that's what I recall.  A mutually-beneficial alliance is how I think of the two companies after all that happened.  Don't need to know and don't much care about the details.

                            Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA
                            A comprehensive network diagram is worth 10,000 words and 15 conference calls.
                            DO NOT set a source address/port in a port forward or firewall rule unless you KNOW you need it!
                            Do Not Chat For Help! NO_WAN_EGRESS(TM)

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                            • P
                              phil.davis
                              last edited by

                              you need to apply for access with ESF

                              The process for that is automatic:

                              1. Make an account on pfSense portal
                              2. Go to the license agreement page and click to agree to the license
                              3. Give it an SSH key

                              Then you automagically get access to the pfsense-tools repo - you need to install GitHub somewhere, with your SSH key, and clone the repo.

                              As I understand it, it is just about making sure that people know and agree to the license conditions, which includes understanding the trademark/s… and thus what they would need to do if they want to fork the code, rebadge...

                              Actually the code itself is freely available to clone, inspect...

                              As the Greek philosopher Isosceles used to say, "There are 3 sides to every triangle."
                              If I helped you, then help someone else - buy someone a gift from the INF catalog http://secure.inf.org/gifts/usd/

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                              • DerelictD
                                Derelict LAYER 8 Netgate
                                last edited by

                                I thought gonzopancho was Jim Thompson but cmb just stated in that other thread that he doesn't do the forum so ??? :/

                                Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA
                                A comprehensive network diagram is worth 10,000 words and 15 conference calls.
                                DO NOT set a source address/port in a port forward or firewall rule unless you KNOW you need it!
                                Do Not Chat For Help! NO_WAN_EGRESS(TM)

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • P
                                  phil.davis
                                  last edited by

                                  @Derelict:

                                  I thought gonzopancho was Jim Thompson but cmb just stated in that other thread that he doesn't do the forum so ??? :/

                                  I am also confused by that - maybe gonzopancho is a puppet whose real name happens to also be Jim Thompson?
                                  Do puppets have real names?

                                  As the Greek philosopher Isosceles used to say, "There are 3 sides to every triangle."
                                  If I helped you, then help someone else - buy someone a gift from the INF catalog http://secure.inf.org/gifts/usd/

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • A
                                    athurdent
                                    last edited by

                                    @phil.davis:

                                    @Derelict:

                                    I thought gonzopancho was Jim Thompson but cmb just stated in that other thread that he doesn't do the forum so ??? :/

                                    I am also confused by that - maybe gonzopancho is a puppet whose real name happens to also be Jim Thompson?
                                    Do puppets have real names?

                                    Hmm…
                                    https://twitter.com/gonzopancho
                                    Can't find the thread Derelict refers to, but I'm also wondering why gonzopancho switched to guest status recently.

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                                    • S
                                      Supermule Banned
                                      last edited by

                                      Really weird.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • B
                                        bennyc
                                        last edited by

                                        @athurdent:

                                        Can't find the thread Derelict refers to, but I'm also wondering why gonzopancho switched to guest status recently.

                                        the thread -> https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php?topic=88244.msg518420#msg518420

                                        4x XG-7100 (2xHA), 1x SG-4860, 1x SG-2100
                                        1x PC Engines APU2C4, 1x PC Engines APU1C4

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                                        • jdillardJ
                                          jdillard
                                          last edited by

                                          @athurdent:

                                          I'm also wondering why gonzopancho switched to guest status recently.

                                          He closed his forum account recently, that's just how SMF represents it now.

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                                          • M
                                            magnifico
                                            last edited by

                                            What are differences between pfsense and opensense? How about bugs? Do opensense have the same bugs as pfsense?

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