Shuttle DS57U (Broadwell & Dual Intel NICs)

Phobia

I'm seriously interested in the 4 port version of the Netgate (RCC-VE 2440), but this and the two port one gonzopancho linked aren't yet available…

I contacted Netgate, and apparently the pfSense store will carry these with software pre-loaded. Hope it isn't at a huge cost premium!

-- Phob

@Phobia:

I'm seriously interested in the 4 port version of the Netgate (RCC-VE 2440), but this and the two port one gonzopancho linked aren't yet available…

I contacted Netgate, and apparently the pfSense store will carry these with software pre-loaded. Hope it isn't at a huge cost premium!

-- Phob

yeah, same here, but would love to see a small review or a unboxing video of both devices (2 & 4 port) before ordering one of them, maybe someone at netgate can make a small review with a dev kit? would be awesome!

JPS.pfsense

@gonzopancho:

This .vs http://store.netgate.com/ADI/RCC-DFF-2220.aspx at $275 which has:

more clockrate (1.7GHz .vs 1.5GHz)

Atom 1,7Ghz vs. Celeron 1,5GHz - this should be a clear win for the Celeron. It's ok to list advantages of your solution, but comparing the clock rate feels like cheating in that case.

less power consumption (TDP 6W .vs 15W

€15 difference per year (24/7)

better Ethernets

Can you explain the difference?

Shuttle is only spec-ed to 40C, 2220 is spec-ed to 65C

The main advantage is, that the Shuttle system is available in Germany. Other solutions often have to be imported.

foetus

@JPS.pfsense:

The main advantage is, that the Shuttle system is available in Germany. Other solutions often have to be imported.

Nail on the head.
Yes, it has been stated there will be a solution for EU customers in the future. But for the time being, most EU customers see the store prices, and can almost double them before it arrives at their door for the lower end options.

Lets put this to a real life situation more :

At this point, an SG-2440 (4GB mem & flash) would set someone like me back 529 Euro without (!) import tax. So in reality, more around 600-655 Euro. (sigh..)
Compared to this Shuttle which is going to retail around €230. Lets even make it €250. Drop in 8gig mem, 60/80 gig reliable SSD, half hour work to scrape off the Shuttle logo and loading image.. We're going to look at around €400.

Price difference of over 50% for marginally worse NIC's (but still current gen Intels, on a setup that wont fill up a 1Gb connection anyways) for a system with double memory and actual storage.
Maybe if you run it more then ~15 years it could cost more regarding power usage.
But for €635, I could build an 8gig ECC + SSD + 2558 Supermicro setup. I would be ignoring setup time, basic support you get from store options, noise, size, power hunger. But still.

I'll even make this better. I bought 15 stickers last year. I ended up paying more import tax on them then their actual worth. I do this cause I care to support on top of my gold sub. But I feel I helped fill the coffers of my country more then anything else.

@foetus:

Compared to this Shuttle which is going to retail around €230. Lets even make it €250. Drop in 8gig mem, 60/80 gig reliable SSD, half hour work to scrape off the Shuttle logo and loading image.. We're going to look at around €400.

the shuttle is around 200 EURs atm in germany AND its already available, see here.

i'm going to buy one next week.

RAND0M1ZER

@gonzopancho:

$217 (US) + 2 x $21 for 4GB ram, + call it $8 for a 4GB SD card. $269

This .vs http://store.netgate.com/ADI/RCC-DFF-2220.aspx at $275 which has:

Why did you include 4GB of RAM to compare it to a 2GB system?

I agree with JPS.pfsense that you are being dishonest in your comparison.

JPS.pfsense

@hedsht:

the shuttle is around 200 EURs atm in germany AND its already available

i'm going to buy one next week.

Please tell us about your experience. Is WLAN working, is it possible to install from a USB-Drive (my ZBOX made some problems), etc.

@JPS.pfsense:

@hedsht:

the shuttle is around 200 EURs atm in germany AND its already available

i'm going to buy one next week.

Please tell us about your experience. Is WLAN working, is it possible to install from a USB-Drive (my ZBOX made some problems), etc.

i'll, it should arrive tomorrow or on thursday.

the shuttle has arrived and i'm happy with it.

lspci -lv (Ubuntu 14.04)
pciconf -lv (FreeBSD 10.1)

Booting from USB works without any issues, even booting from SD Card works.

Minor con's so far:

the NICs use two different drivers, one is igb0 (I211) and the other one em0 (I218LM)
no status LEDs on NICs, might bother some people
Wifi Card (RTL8188EE) is not working
it isnt possible to disable the igpu (it will use 64mb of ram)

The case is made of metal which makes it quite hard to install external wifi antenna's, but i'll try to find a good spot, swap the wifi card and install two external antenna's.

I've set PowerD to adaptive and while downloading 100mbit the cpu idle's at around 500 MHz.

PfSense GUI Screenshot

Power Usage: 11w (4 GB RAM & 64 GB SSD)

Important thing to note: AES-NI doesnt seem to be supported by FreeBSD 10.1 on this Broadwell-CPU:


[2.2-RELEASE][root@firewall.lan]/root: dmesg | grep -i aes
aesni0: No AESNI support.

[2.2-RELEASE][root@firewall.lan]/root: /usr/bin/openssl engine -t -c
(cryptodev) BSD cryptodev engine
 [RSA, DSA, DH]
     [ available ]
(rsax) RSAX engine support
 [RSA]
     [ available ]
(rdrand) Intel RDRAND engine
 [RAND]
     [ available ]
(dynamic) Dynamic engine loading support
     [ unavailable ]

Ubuntu 14.04

root@ubuntu:~# cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor       : 0
vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
cpu family      : 6
model           : 61
model name      : Intel(R) Celeron(R) 3205U @ 1.50GHz
stepping        : 4
microcode       : 0x13
cpu MHz         : 500.000
cache size      : 2048 KB
physical id     : 0
siblings        : 2
core id         : 0
cpu cores       : 2
apicid          : 0
initial apicid  : 0
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 20
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf eagerfpu pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer xsave rdrand lahf_lm abm 3dnowprefetch ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase tsc_adjust erms invpcid rdseed
bogomips        : 2993.17
clflush size    : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes   : 39 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:

I've already chatted with the Intel-Support, they claim that the CPU itself does support AES-NI, but its up to the computer-manufacturer (shuttle) to implement it. i've contacted the shuttle support.

:(

BIOS issue, likely.

@RAND0M1ZER:

@gonzopancho:

$217 (US) + 2 x $21 for 4GB ram, + call it $8 for a 4GB SD card. $269

This .vs http://store.netgate.com/ADI/RCC-DFF-2220.aspx at $275 which has:

Why did you include 4GB of RAM to compare it to a 2GB system?

I agree with JPS.pfsense that you are being dishonest in your comparison.

Because unless I'm mistaken, you can't run a single DIMM in that board. If I'm wrong, the Shuttle is at $248. I hope you get the AES-NI fixed.

Might I add that I have no less than three junk Shuttle cases that used custom power supplies. They make OK gear but 24/7 embedded class, I don't think so. Maybe you will get lucky and it will last. Shuttle makes nice gear, just not embedded specialty gear.

And how about goodies like an M.2 slot and SIM socket. Totally purpose built machinery.

JPS.pfsense

@Phishfry:

Might I add that I have no less than three junk Shuttle cases that used custom power supplies. They make OK gear but 24/7 embedded class, I don't think so. Maybe you will get lucky and it will last. Shuttle makes nice gear, just not embedded specialty gear.

So the power supply was the reason for malfunction in all three cases?

One bad power supply and two bad motherboards. Different generations as well from G2 to K45. I really do like thier cases. This was my choice for htpc/geexbox along with Aopen slim boxes. I have had better luck with Aopen personally…

robi

What's the max speed you can achieve NATting between the two interfaces, and with what CPU usage/load?

i'm not using this one as a pfsense box anymore, because AES-NI is not supported.

had a really nice chat with the shuttle support and they confirmed that the celeron they used doesnt support AES-NI, its not a bios issue.
but, later this year shuttle will release a i3 & i5 version which will definitely support AES-NI.

Shonky

@hedsht:

i'm not using this one as a pfsense box anymore, because AES-NI is not supported.

had a really nice chat with the shuttle support and they confirmed that the celeron they used doesnt support AES-NI, its not a bios issue.
but, later this year shuttle will release a i3 & i5 version which will definitely support AES-NI.

That's not true according to Intel. Sounds like BS to me. I was about to go and buy one until hearing that…
http://ark.intel.com/products/84809/Intel-Celeron-Processor-3205U-2M-Cache-1_50-GHz

@Shonky:

@hedsht:

i'm not using this one as a pfsense box anymore, because AES-NI is not supported.

had a really nice chat with the shuttle support and they confirmed that the celeron they used doesnt support AES-NI, its not a bios issue.
but, later this year shuttle will release a i3 & i5 version which will definitely support AES-NI.

That's not true according to Intel. Sounds like BS to me. I was about to go and buy one until hearing that…
http://ark.intel.com/products/84809/Intel-Celeron-Processor-3205U-2M-Cache-1_50-GHz

i've talked with the intel support as well, the celeron does support aes-ni, but its up to the manufacturer which version he uses and apparently shuttle took the one without aes-ni in this case.

cpu.png_thumb

mobo.png_thumb