What is the biggest attack in GBPS you stopped
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Out of the box.
Tuning no… It should default to the behaviour of handling the traffic received and shouldnt fail on 3mbit/s traffic.
You cant compare a F1 car to a WRC car. Its like comparing apples to bananas.
The only they have in common is that they are fruits :D
As does the firewalls. They handle traffic and blocks it if needed. Default behaviour. EOD.
Yes… but why can other firewalls keep up with the traffic and pf cant?
Out of the box or have they been tuned?
If hardware was the limit here, then all tested should suffer the same faith. They dont…
Fortigates VMware Appliance and Mikrotik handles the same traffic no issues. Tell me why.... on the same ressources and in the same Hypervisor.
Tuning?
What makes pfsense's default settings suitable for your datacentre setup compared to my home use setup?
Its like tuning a F1 race car, its not going to do well in World Rally Championship setting is it on snow, across deserts or in forests, likewise a rally car is not going to do so well on a race track against F1 cars is it.
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A little weird thing I noticed…
I tried running the VM with an odd amount of cores.
It didnt change a bit, but behaviour did. 2 of the Cores are switching between 0% and 100% after the attack was stopped but none of them is 0% if the other one is...
Anybody care to explain why?
I havent seen this before and its like it wont let go.
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Look at the code in the OS that determines what to assign to the available cores.
The OS might be "smart" enough to work out which cores are already under load and also under load for long periods of time, and thus it might assign other cores to be used.
This is windows thread scheduling https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms685100%28VS.85%29.aspx
Freebsd
https://calomel.org/freebsd_network_tuning.html
Things you need to look at include processor affinity & thread scheduling as mentioned in the link above and some of it shown below."######################################### net.isr. tuning begin ##############
NOTE regarding "net.isr.*" : Processor affinity can effectively reduce cache
problems but it does not curb the persistent load-balancing problem.[1]
Processor affinity becomes more complicated in systems with non-uniform
architectures. A system with two dual-core hyper-threaded CPUs presents a
challenge to a scheduling algorithm. There is complete affinity between two
virtual CPUs implemented on the same core via hyper-threading, partial
affinity between two cores on the same physical chip (as the cores share
some, but not all, cache), and no affinity between separate physical chips.
It is possible that net.isr.bindthreads="0" and net.isr.maxthreads="3" can
cause more slowdown if your system is not cpu loaded already. We highly
recommend getting a more efficient network card instead of setting the
"net.isr.*" options. Look at the Intel i350 for gigabit or the Myricom
10G-PCIE2-8C2-2S for 10gig. These cards will reduce the machines nic
processing to 12% or lower."
This might also be useful albeit for an earlier version of freebsd.
http://www.icir.org/gregor/tools/pthread-scheduling.html -
Out of the box.
Tuning no… It should default to the behaviour of handling the traffic received and shouldnt fail on 3mbit/s traffic.
You cant compare a F1 car to a WRC car. Its like comparing apples to bananas.
The only they have in common is that they are fruits :D
As does the firewalls. They handle traffic and blocks it if needed. Default behaviour. EOD.
I disagree, but thats because we dont know if the other products out of the box have additional code in order for it to adapt or change to requirements which may not be built into pfsense.
Can you provide examples of out of the box fw's which do work out of the box and can you show me what is different to pfsense in order for them to work out of the box?
The phrase, you get what you pay for springs to mind at the moment. :)
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Mikrotik, Fortigate, ISA Server and Windows Firewall.
No other of what we have tested passed the tests.
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FreeBSD is getting more SMP love for its network stack in 11. Each major release seems to have better core scaling for IO in general. There are some major plans to allow the network stack to both receive and send flows stickied to a single core and have flows randomly distributed among the cores.
One thing that I do not know about SMP loving is NAT. I know the NAT implementation has been single threaded for a while. It's possible it may be able to get a re-write once some of the new SMP network stack APIs are finalized. Or just got IPv6.
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Mikrotik, Fortigate, ISA Server and Windows Firewall.
No other of what we have tested passed the tests.
Mikrotik - RouterOS based on Linux, so try some linux hacks on it for stability testing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MikroTik#RouterOSFortigate - FortiOS based on Linux, so as above…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortinet#GPL_violationsWindows ISA Server Forefront no longer available as MS have announced they are dropping it so support will be gone in time. Try some windows hacks for stability testing.
This matters because freebsd is primarily aimed at stability although it has pioneered some features yet to be seen in other OS platforms and also holds an unofficial world record for the most amount of data transmitted
https://www.freebsd.org/advocacy/whyusefreebsd.htmlhttp://www.serverwatch.com/tutorials/article.php/10825_3393051_2/Differentiating-Among-BSD-Distros.htm
"FreeBSD holds the unofficial record for transferring data, having achieved more than 2 Terabytes of data from one server running the OS. It follows from this statistic that FreeBSD is also one of the most stable OSes available."The last part above is not what you want to hear considering what you are experiencing but it goes back to my point about tuning.
You can tune a little ford fiesta engine to compete on a 1/4 mile with similar performance as a bigger engined car, but that ford fiesta engine will then have no reliability and will likely explode after completing the 1/4 mile.
I guess what you need to do is define your aim's then select the correct fw according to those aim's.
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Attack is currently scaled down to 2mbit/s and the FW still dies despite limiting states pr. second and states pr. host.
Ran Top command and here is some info.
1 core is still blasting away at full speed. (Core 6) if you pay for IOPS/CPU in a datacenter, this is not good news.
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It seems to need it bad.
But when will pfSense have it, is another interesting question.
FreeBSD is getting more SMP love for its network stack in 11. Each major release seems to have better core scaling for IO in general. There are some major plans to allow the network stack to both receive and send flows stickied to a single core and have flows randomly distributed among the cores.
One thing that I do not know about SMP loving is NAT. I know the NAT implementation has been single threaded for a while. It's possible it may be able to get a re-write once some of the new SMP network stack APIs are finalized. Or just got IPv6.
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Last one for today. Still packetloss and an unresponsive GUI. Traffic stateless is around 15mbit/s.
I see filterlog comsuming a lot of CPU during the attack. Big difference in Vmware CPU wise… Core nr. 6 is still blasting away, but its not attack dependant. If it wasnt going at a 100% then it could have survived (maybe).
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SYN Flood recording stateless running TOP on Console
SYN Flood recording running SYN Proxy states with limiters and TOP on Console
If you wonder why you cant see core nr4 in TOP, you are not the only one.
It runs 100% in VmWare.
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So have you identified the code thats running on the core that maxes out when this happens?
If you havent, how can you fix the problem?
At the moment you are just reporting symptoms which as you can see by the length of the thread its not been that useful at fixing the problem so far has it?
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I havent got a clue of where to begin and where to look.
I cant see whats using the core…
What do you make of this? Core nr. 4 says its idle at 100%
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So have you identified the code thats running on the core that maxes out when this happens?
I'm almost certain the issue is with the network driver in FreeBSD and it's also being contributed to by PF.
When my state table is low (394K) the attack cripples the entire box with the exception of the console. PF alerts that it hit its state table max in the console. I'm not sure why a full state table creates a more significant impact on the box, but it does.
When I increase the state table I get the IRQ warning; the interrupt storm. This disables the interface being attacked and it's most likely due to the interface grabbing one CPU/core and filling it with software interrupts. PF takes all packets and puts them through the CPU, and in this case it would/should grab only one CPU. This makes sense because you don't want IRQ polling across all CPUs (I have a link to an excellent article regarding this design, I'll find it in a few). So generating an interrupt storm on any interface should max out one CPU and take that interface down because of the interrupts being generated. The CPU does not have the resources to process legit request because it's overwhelmed with interrupts.
I guess that the network driver would have to include code to drop these packets before they got to the OS/kernel. Once the kernel gets involved in processing these packets, it generates the interrupt storm, bogs down one CPU, and the interface goes down.
I also assume that there is probably some performance tuning I can do in pfSense, but I think the issue is at a lower level than that. If I have time this weekend, I'll pin up a FreeBSD 10.1 box running PF to validate these assumptions, but I have a strong feeling it's the networking driver that's creating this issue by passing every packet off to the kernel and PF for processing.
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I disabled Device Polling and the 100% usage of the Core nr. 4 went away instantly.
This is console with Top -p running when no attack and then the SYN attack.
First one is with no portforward and the box is fine.
2nd is with portforward and it dies.
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It's possible that when the state table is full and a new packet for yet another new state comes in, if it's all being processed on the same thread, maybe a new state with a full table triggers some sort of "clean up" in an attempt to make room, and this clean up is really expensive to be doing per packet.
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I think you mentioned this before, but I just want to make sure. When you say with/without forwarding, do you mean when targeting the forwarded port or just forwarding in general?
If it's forwarding in general, maybe it's NAT that's causing some/all of the issues. Since NAT is single threaded, if a new state is coming in and in order to forward ports, NAT needs to first re-write the header information prior to the firewall seeing the packet, now we have a single chunk of code that is acting as gatekeeper to the firewall, and it's single threaded to boot.
When you have no forwarding rules, NAT doesn't even need to be checked. But if you have one more more rules, NAT has to check the new state packet, for every new state packet that comes in, single threaded, lots of locking.
edit: I see syslogd using a lot of CPU, are you logging blocked packets? May want to disable that during the test.
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It's also important to note that SM is running pfSense as a VM and I am running it on bare metal. This can impact the way it handles network traffic.
https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-net/2015-March/041657.html
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Okay the script fucked my unbound and it lost its PID and couldnt start…. had to revert to DNS forwarder to get internet access back...
Tim and Anthony is a great help! Getting closer....
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Tomorrow we should be able to test on a real business class network, instead of my crappy Comcast CPE that dies. A fiber optic Internet connection through a Cisco switch port. I'll lug the VM box up there, and also see what I can scare up for bare metal…hopefully more than an unfurled tinfoil hat.