New GPS for NTP server

bingo600 · Nov 9, 2022, 5:06 AM

The Garmin GPS 16x comes with an RJ45 jack, I want
set up it at a LAN port named GPS

It seems to have RS-232 signals on that RJ45 plug.
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/GPS_16x_tech_specs.pdf

The 1PPS prob. needs buffering:

This output provides between 800
mVp-p to 1.7 Vp-p for GPS 16xLVS and 1.4 Vp-p for the GPS 16xHVS and
17HVS into a 50 Ω load. The pulse time measured at the 50% voltage point will
be about 50 ns earlier with a 50 Ω load than with no load.

/Bingo

Nov 9, 2022, 5:35 AM

@bingo600

Hello again,

It seems to have RS-232 signals on that RJ45 plug.

I am still confused about the Garmin product, they
have two nearly identically devices! One is named
GPS 16xHVS and the other is named GPS 16xLVS
and I can´t find out what is the difference from both.
Both comes both are available with an RJ45 jack and
about one device garmin was announcing it come
with one serial output and two serial inputs! But I
don´t find out where this connectors are placed, I
was long time searching all over the internet to
get a look on the bottom side, but there was
also nothing to find that looks like a port.

I find out that if I am not creating this LAN port,
and let it unattended I can choose it in the NTP
menue to set up serialGPS, but choosing instead
of it the LAN port, so I get one more option to try it out.

If all goes wrong, I know only the option to set up
the serial interface on the APU to one of the USB
ports and get an adapter like this;
Adapter 1
Adapter 2

https://static.garmin.com/pumac/GPS_16x_tech_specs.pdf

I should read at the weekend that document over to
find out more. A really hassle is this GPS part, but first
it was looking great and really easy to me, insert
a miniPCIe card connect the antenna and choose the
CuaUx.x port and all should be ready.

Thanks for the hint and linking to that document.

bingo600 · Nov 9, 2022, 5:58 AM

@dobby_ said in New GPS for NTP server:

I am still confused about the Garmin product, they
have two nearly identically devices! One is named
GPS 16xHVS and the other is named GPS 16xLVS
and I can´t find out what is the difference from both.

LVS vs HVS is about the powersupply.
LVS requires a : Regulated 3..6v supply
HVS can be run of an unregulated 8..40v supply (ie. car/boat battery)

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The 2'nd serial port is currently for DGPS messages (all connections are in the RJ45 plug)

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It's all in the Tech pdf here:
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/GPS_16x_tech_specs.pdf

IMHO : If you don't have a soldering iron, and knows how to make a voltage translator etc .... Keep away from the Garmin

/Bingo

Nov 9, 2022, 6:27 PM

@bingo600

IMHO : If you don't have a soldering iron, and knows
how to make a voltage translator etc .... Keep away
from the Garmin

Ok thanks again for that input then I would really stay away
from that Garmin product as a NTP time source.

pete · Nov 9, 2022, 6:27 PM

This is where I got my start tinkering with GPS / NTP stuff...

http://satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm

In the 1990's used a Trimble GPS that came from military surplus store that I purchased for next to nothing. It just had an antenna port and two RS-232 interfaces. Took a long time to get a sync with an outdoor antenna mounted on roof of two story house.

stephenw10 · Nov 10, 2022, 11:05 AM

@pete said in New GPS for NTP server:

...came from a Tank that I purchased

johndav201986 · Dec 18, 2022, 6:42 PM

This post is deleted!

Sergei_Shablovsky · Dec 21, 2022, 1:24 AM

@A Former User said in New GPS for NTP server:

@Sergei_Shablovsky
Hello, I am playing around with the idea to set up also perhaps another devices and you named here something
about Garmin. Can you share with me wich device you
where mention here?
This is the second one I would try out after the miniCPIe
card is failing and/or not working!
Garmin GPS 16x

Recently we bought for one of projects new Garmin GPS 16x-HVS (more robust and stable working, and same or better receiver sensitivity rather 19x-HVS, especially for non-moving objects like rack server).

P.S. May be this and this one thread would be interesting for You ;)

Sergei_Shablovsky · Feb 19, 2024, 2:26 AM

@bingo600 said in New GPS for NTP server:

@dobby_ said in New GPS for NTP server:

I am still confused about the Garmin product, they
have two nearly identically devices! One is named
GPS 16xHVS and the other is named GPS 16xLVS
and I can´t find out what is the difference from both.

LVS vs HVS is about the powersupply.
LVS requires a : Regulated 3..6v supply
HVS can be run of an unregulated 8..40v supply (ie. car/boat battery)

🔒 Log in to view

Let’s note there are some drawbacks of HVS: voltage regulate element, that emitting heat inside closed case.

This mean 1 great news and 1 bad news:
The GREAT news are that in winter time this heat just dissolving the snow that coming on top of device and decrease GPS signal.
The BAD news are that in hot summer time this heat make internal temperature really hot (remind the device are hermetically close) and make unstable working measures.

And need to note that EXIST TWO COLORS of plastic of this device - BLACK and WHITE. So, choose according Your using environment. (White color less absorbing sunlights, so internal temperature would be less. But please NOT PAINTING your black one - most of spray paint consist the chemicals that prevent GPS signal receiving...)

IMHO : If you don't have a soldering iron, and knows how to make a voltage translator etc .... Keep away from the Garmin

Yes! GPS - is for BIG GUYS !

Sergei_Shablovsky · Dec 21, 2022, 5:55 AM

@pete said in New GPS for NTP server:

In the 1990's used a Trimble GPS that came from military surplus store that I purchased for next to nothing. It just had an antenna port and two RS-232 interfaces. Took a long time to get a sync with an outdoor antenna mounted on roof of two story house.

Very interesting! Thank You for information!

As I know there are TWO GPS systems: military and civil.

Military are more stable and more accurate. BUT only approved devices from military vendors contain electronic inside to able receiving and DECODING signals from military GPS system.

Am I right?

Sergei_Shablovsky · Feb 19, 2024, 2:29 AM

@pete said in New GPS for NTP server:

Replying to my own post figured out (guessing mostly) the configuration with the Neo-8M GPS Satellite board U-Blox Windows programming software.

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Hi, Pete!

As for now are You able to see the geoposition in this dashboard on 2.7.2-RELEASE pfSense version?

elvisimprsntr · Feb 19, 2024, 3:03 AM

I tested three different Garmin GPS receivers connected directly to my pfSense firewall.

GPS 16x LVS (5V USB power)
GPS 18x LVC (5V USB power)
GPS 19x HVS (12V same power source as Protectli Vault)

Just need to wired them up to a DE9 RS232 or RJ45 COM port and provide applicable power.

Less than 10 usec jitter/offset for less than $50. Works automagically!

Full write up here

Sergei_Shablovsky · Feb 19, 2024, 3:21 AM

@elvisimprsntr said in New GPS for NTP server:

I tested three different Garmin GPS receivers connected directly to my pfSense firewall.

GPS 16x LVS (5V USB power)

GPS 18x LVC (5V USB power)

GPS 19x HVS (12V same power source as Protectli Vault)

Just need to wired them up to a DE9 RS232 or RJ45 COM port and provide applicable power.

Less than 10 usec jitter/offset for less than $50. Works automagically!

AMAZING WORK! Thank You so much!!!

Why You not make a PR to pfSense to include this as separate package?

Full write up here

VERY INTERESTING!
Let me spend some time to read…:)

elvisimprsntr · Feb 19, 2024, 3:28 AM

@Sergei_Shablovsky said in New GPS for NTP server:

Why You not make a PR to pfSense to include this as separate package?

Serial GPS/PPS is already part of pfSense NTP service.
I did submit a PR for the NTP display for the LCDproc package.

Sergei_Shablovsky · Feb 19, 2024, 6:15 AM

@elvisimprsntr said in New GPS for NTP server:

@Sergei_Shablovsky said in New GPS for NTP server:

Why You not make a PR to pfSense to include this as separate package?

Serial GPS/PPS is already part of pfSense NTP service.
I did submit a PR for the NTP display for the LCDproc package.

Nice to read this!

Personally, I vote up to EACH DC MUST HAVE INTERNAL STRATUM 1 server!
Because a lot of users here are SysAdmins in middle/big organizations, I hope Your work would be extra one push for them all to made separate time-server…

Sergei_Shablovsky · Feb 19, 2024, 6:08 AM

@elvisimprsntr said in New GPS for NTP server:

@Sergei_Shablovsky said in New GPS for NTP server:

Why You not make a PR to pfSense to include this as separate package?

Serial GPS/PPS is already part of pfSense NTP service.
I did submit a PR for the NTP display for the LCDproc package.

How would be difficult to You improve the NTP-GPS dashboard to make it looks like xgps ?

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I know, this look like fantastic dream of NTP-GPS nerd, but…anyway this is just matter of generating image based on the same GPS data You already have ;)
Not so much of pfSense users have this 20x4 LCD display, but monitor we already have ;)

Even not needed to generate satellite map each time when dashboard/package page render on screen: just re-making image each 3-6-8 hours would be enough (cronjob).

Sergei_Shablovsky · Feb 19, 2024, 6:29 AM

@pete said in New GPS for NTP server:

In the 1990's used a Trimble GPS that came from military surplus store that I purchased for next to nothing. It just had an antenna port and two RS-232 interfaces. Took a long time to get a sync with an outdoor antenna mounted on roof of two story house.

Need to note that Trimble’s GSM receivers USE 2(two) FREQUENCES/CHANNELS that give ability to more precise positions and (more important) SHORT COLD START TIME and QUICKEST RECEIVE a COORDINATES.
(Also because of used technologies Trimble may be on government restriction for official export outside US).

SOHO or cheap GPS-receivers like most of Garmin (for example) working ONLY ON 1(one) FRÉQUENCE.

P.S. For example on Feb 2024 beautiful Trimble NetRS cost around $160 on ebay. Not cheap like Pi, but READ about features! :)

elvisimprsntr · Feb 19, 2024, 9:51 AM

@Sergei_Shablovsky said in New GPS for NTP server:

How would be difficult to You improve the NTP-GPS dashboard to make it looks like xgps ?

An XGPS "like" dashboard would be beyond the capabilities of the pfSense LCDproc package, but in theory you could build your own pfSense dashboard widget to display something similar.

https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/development/create-widgets.html

pete · Feb 19, 2024, 3:00 PM

Good to see interest in said topic!!!

Here using an external GPS antenna to home antenna mounted on a satellite dish these days.

A graphical display would be a nice add.

Here ran the old Windows GPS apps on Linux using PlayonLinux and it worked well.