Maximum IP adresses issued on LAN, and I can not get internet access.
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I put netgear nighthawk wireless routers r7000 ac1900 for the test some with tomato firmware and netgear, and will be running them as APs. They are limited to 32 connections per channel running netgears firmware.
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"The 18 APs will service no more than 60 users each and we will add more later when adoption ramps up. "
"I put netgear nighthawk wireless routers r7000 ac1900 for the test "So these home routers AC1900, r7000 are just tests.. What AP are you going to use in production? You can not be serious that you would roll out home routers as AP in such a setup??
60 users each is a LOT if you expect any sort of actual performance.
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Sorry I still do not get why are you using so small DHCP range (subset of /24) when you already have /16 in use on your LAN.
I'm not sure if you understand /24 /16 /8 etc prefixes, so I will post this.
https://www.ripe.net/images/cidr_working42.jpg
The reason I said use 2 /24s or maybe even 3 if you have the interfaces for it is because thats simple and easy and most consumer equipment defaults to using /24s anyway.
You can get lots of IPs on a single interface by making your prefix size larger (which means using smaller namubers - /16 is bigger than /24)
For instance, using a /23 on your LAN would get you 512 addresses.
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What's the budget for the project?
What do you have in place for switching and PoE?
Are you running new cables to the optimal locations (usually in ceilings) or are you just putting them wherever there is already a run? If the latter, where are they typically located?
Are you going to try to rely on meshing in any locations?
What's the general building construction? How many floors?
How did you arrive at the 18 AP number? Seems WAY too low at 10.3 apartment units per AP.
What kind of performance is expected?
Growth over 5-7 years (think about increases in associated devices)?
Any other requirements (captive portal, multiple BSSIDs, etc)?
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The reason I said use 2 /24s or maybe even 3 if you have the interfaces for it is because thats simple and easy and most consumer equipment defaults to using /24s anyway.
Using multiple subnets on the same SSID is tricky. I don't believe there is any requirement to renew DHCP when roaming from AP to AP.
With wired you can do whatever you want. Wireless, not so much.
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Then that leaves changing prefix size. Its just that anyone who could set that up easily wouldn't have asked the question to begin with.
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^ exactly those are all basic questions on setting up something like this.
Plus many more, many! Budget for a rollout of this sort of thing is going to be in the 10's of Ks most likely. There is a huge difference between setting up a wifi ap in your house or smb vs something like this with 1000 users in a high rise anything. Are you attempting to just cover common areas in the building or the apt themselves.
Are the apt owners running their own wifi? Do they have wired internet now? That could cause huge issues with wifi noise. To think such a project could be done by someone that does not even understand basic netmasks.. No offense but you are so far over head..
Only thing I can say positive is you picked pfsense ;)
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Thank you all ! I got it running….. moved the server in between the cable modem and the switch.
I would buy everyone here a few beers for your help. You all have brought from me from semi retarded IP class, to handicapped level !
Sorry I still do not get why are you using so small DHCP range (subset of /24) when you already have /16 in use on your LAN.
I'm not sure if you understand /24 /16 /8 etc prefixes, so I will post this.
https://www.ripe.net/images/cidr_working42.jpg
The reason I said use 2 /24s or maybe even 3 if you have the interfaces for it is because thats simple and easy and most consumer equipment defaults to using /24s anyway.
You can get lots of IPs on a single interface by making your prefix size larger (which means using smaller namubers - /16 is bigger than /24)
For instance, using a /23 on your LAN would get you 512 addresses.
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Thank you , now I understand that Ethernet interfaces gives more IPs.
Use 2 interfaces with each having a /24
Use 3 if you need a management interface.
This is easy and cheap.
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And so does using a /23 or /16 or whatever. So, be sure of your needs.
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Any recommendations for ones you have used ? Fast and reliable ….and off the shelf ..
I like off the shelf ones, the maintance department in the building can plug a spare preconfigured one in , for a hot swap, go to local store 10 minutes away and replace.
I meant that net gear published a max of around 30 users per channel. Most users will be just surfing or email. The reason I am installing this software to manage and monitor the bandwidth. I just want them to support the highest speed, for the least amount of money, with of course reliability. I am in the testing phase. The netgear router did not fart or burp with 10 simo video streams. I have no way to test more right now.
thank you
"The 18 APs will service no more than 60 users each and we will add more later when adoption ramps up. "
"I put netgear nighthawk wireless routers r7000 ac1900 for the test "So these home routers AC1900, r7000 are just tests.. What AP are you going to use in production? You can not be serious that you would roll out home routers as AP in such a setup??
60 users each is a LOT if you expect any sort of actual performance.
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I just want them to support the highest speed, for the least amount of money, with of course reliability.
"Pick any two"
The bare minimum I would look at for this is Ubiquiti UniFi.
I like off the shelf ones, the maintance department in the building can plug a spare preconfigured one in , for a hot swap, go to local store 10 minutes away and replace.
Except that when something fails in 18 months you find that what you've deployed was discontinued and is no longer available.
Have spares.
It truly boggles the mind that people think Wi-Fi home routers scale to something like this.
I would start by buying a UniFi UAP Pro, installing it, and performing a survey to see how well it covers your construction. As a GENERAL rule of thumb, I would shoot for no less than -67 on 5GHz. 2.4 will be stronger.
I would stop worrying about users per AP/radio. I believe you are going to find that in an apartment setting, you cannot get a strong enough signal to enough people to have to worry about it with anything resembling quality radios.
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Dude if I was trying to do something like this on shoestring budget I would deploy unifi AP, the entry levels are $70 - pros would be better at $200 each.
They are the cheapest AP with at least some enterprise features, etc. And a controller to give you details of how many clients, how they are connected, bandwidth used, etc. etc. Zero Handoff, etc.. Ceiling mounted POE.
https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/
These would allow someone to just swap new on it, etc. Not sure how you expect someone to swap in a soho router as AP unless its been pre setup as AP, etc.
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What's the budget for the project?
I am personally funding the test trial, budget is low of course.
What do you have in place for switching and PoE?
All Gig managed switches and 200 mb comcast connection
Are you running new cables to the optimal locations (usually in ceilings) or are you just putting them wherever there is already a run? If the latter, where are they typically located?
cat5e between gig switch to each AP.
Are you going to try to rely on meshing in any locations?
No.
What's the general building construction? here is their web site :http://thegardensplaza.com/
1 FT Cement floors, I am getting 3 floors with 75 % speed and very strong signal, there are cement columns in certain locations
How many floors?
15 floors - each floor has 14 units, building is 340 FT wide by approx 60 FT.
How did you arrive at the 18 AP number?
10 Apartments per AP. some what educated guess. Maybe If I put four per every other floor it would be better.
Seems WAY too low at 10.3 apartment units per AP.
Yes, you are right. the average age of owners is 50 to 60 years old plus is the demographic.
Initally , I think it will be enough, but when the season hits, I am worried. I have a 900 SF unit, and my family has 5-7 devices, multiple that by 185. Some units might have one.
What kind of performance is expected?
High, network should support video streaming Roku, apple TV and Amazon boxes, bandwidth is top priority.
Growth over 5-7 years (think about increases in associated devices)?
More bandwidth usage, not number of users.
Any other requirements (captive portal, multiple BSSIDs, etc)?
Captive portal, authentication
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What's the budget for the project?
I am personally funding the test trial, budget is low of course.
What do you have in place for switching and PoE?
All Gig managed switches and 200 mb comcast connection
PoE?
Are you running new cables to the optimal locations (usually in ceilings) or are you just putting them wherever there is already a run? If the latter, where are they typically located?
cat5e between gig switch to each AP.
You didn't really answer the questions.
What's the general building construction? here is their web site :http://thegardensplaza.com/
1 FT Cement floors, I am getting 3 floors with 75 % speed and very strong signal, there are cement columns in certain locations
I call bullshit on this one. 1 foot of concrete decimates 2.4 and especially 5. What are the numbers?
As occupancy goes up, so does noise. What works in testing will fall on its face when you have everyone bringing in their phones and Mi-Fis on nonstandard channels. You want this to work well enough everywhere that they never even think about getting the Mi-Fi out of their laptop bag.
How many floors?
15 floors - each floor has 14 units, building is 340 FT wide by approx 60 FT.
How did you arrive at the 18 AP number?
10 Apartments per AP. some what educated guess. Maybe If I put four per every other floor it would be better.
Seems WAY too low at 10.3 apartment units per AP.
Yes, you are right. the average age of owners is 50 to 60 years old plus is the demographic.
Initally , I think it will be enough, but when the season hits, I am worried. I have a 900 SF unit, and my family has 5-7 devices, multiple that by 185. Some units might have one.
What kind of performance is expected?
High, network should support video streaming Roku, apple TV and Amazon boxes, bandwidth is top priority.
You and your users are going to be extremely disappointed.
Growth over 5-7 years (think about increases in associated devices)?
More bandwidth usage, not number of users.
Take another look at the trends. There's this current buzzword called the Internet of Things.
Any other requirements (captive portal, multiple BSSIDs, etc)?
Captive portal, authentication
Authentication against what?
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You don't just throw some home wifi routers together and call it a trial for wifi to cover a building of this nature.
Unless your wanting to just give guest access in the lobby or something?
My suggestion to you is hire someone to do this correctly, or what is going to happen is spend money and time just to crash and burn..
As to your budget - low would be 20K for a project of this nature if you ask me for shoot from the hip number, and that dreaming low to be honest.
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Just for hardware.
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Yeah, exactly! That is not counting engineering cost, install, etc..
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I second Ubiquity recommended in the above. They have this thing called 'seamless roaming' or something, which the people wil probably like.
If you have 1000 people on a 200 line, and they are all going to stream video, your 200 line probably isn't enough(?)
Also, have you considered security? If you put 1000 people in one LAN, they are all in the same LAN.
Now, people around here know me as the eternal noob ( ;D ), but shouldn't you divide your network, for security and control?
I could even envision you buying 185 Unify-UAP's, and install one in each condo. They are not expensive to begin with, and I think at 185+ units (spares too) you will get a fat-fat-fat discount (buy 250 units, get them for 50% perhaps). Of course, charging the condo-owners for this hardware makes only sense to me, so you keep it out of the implementation project.
Then, ideally, you could create 185 VLANs so you can control each condo separately (switch them off if they misbehave/shut down that part of your internet when the condo is empty/setup parental block lists per condo if they require so because of young kids, disable internet on a time schedule if they request so, block VLAN23 scriptkiddies on visit @ grandpa from trying to hack VLAN167, etc: all things you can't do with one huge LAN & DHCP - you can do DHCP within each VLAN, however).
Of course, and this is what I don't know but I am sure the seniors in here do know: is there a way of connecting 185 VLAN's without having to use 185 physical NIC's?
Finally: you for sure will want CARP, and I really think you will need multiple 200 lines. Ideally you'll setup traffic shaper between them to balance the load.
This' all noob-thinking. Seniors in 3-2-1 to shoot me ;D ;D ;D
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If your going to put a AP in each condo - why even bother, since you would need a wire to each condo in that sort of setup. Let them buy and setup their own hardware, you just provide the jack, etc.
As to need 185 nics for a 185 vlans?? No your router would not need 185 nics ;)
