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    Using pfSense's time server

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General pfSense Questions
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    • H
      Harvy66
      last edited by

      Do you have the LAN interface selected?

      NTP-Interface.png
      NTP-Interface.png_thumb

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      • G
        GomezAddams
        last edited by

        @Balanga:

        I have enabled NTP within pfSense with 5 Time Servers but I can't get any of the clients on the LAN to update to the correct time.

        If I run 'daytime 192.168.1.1' I get no response. If I run 'daytime time.nist.gov' it works.

        What am I doing wrong?

        Daytime doesn't use ntp, it uses an older, simpler protocol. I think…

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        • stan-qazS
          stan-qaz
          last edited by

          What do you see if you use ntpq to check your ntp setup?

          Checking my pf sense box at 172.16.0.1 from one of my clients gets me the responses below.

          p490:/home/stan # ntpq -p 172.16.0.1
               remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
          ==============================================================================
          +server.home     172.16.0.4       2 u   97  512  377    0.177   -1.046   0.130
          *pi-v1.home      .GPS0.           1 u  119  512  377    0.578   -0.353   0.155
          +ntp.cox.net     .GPS.            1 u   91  512  377   51.263    1.371   0.995
          
          p490:/home/stan # ntpq -pn 172.16.0.1
               remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
          ==============================================================================
          +172.16.0.2      172.16.0.4       2 u  110  512  377    0.177   -1.046   0.130
          *172.16.0.4      .GPS0.           1 u  132  512  377    0.578   -0.353   0.155
          +68.0.14.76      .GPS.            1 u  104  512  377   51.263    1.371   0.995
          

          I'm using a Raspberry Pi GPS clock at 172.16.0.4 for my preferred server, peering with a local server at 172.16.0.2 backed up with my ISP's ntp server at 68.0.14.76 in case the Pi has issues.

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          • B
            Balanga
            last edited by

            @Harvy66:

            Do you have the LAN interface selected?

            Yes, I have LAN set on.  Just wondered what ADMIN signified…

            What should I run on the client to get the time synchronised?

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            • B
              Balanga
              last edited by

              @GomezAddams:

              Daytime doesn't use ntp, it uses an older, simpler protocol. I think…

              What should I use instead?

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • B
                Balanga
                last edited by

                @stan-qaz:

                What do you see if you use ntpq to check your ntp setup?

                Checking my pf sense box at 172.16.0.1 from one of my clients gets me the responses below.

                p490:/home/stan # ntpq -p 172.16.0.1
                     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
                ==============================================================================
                +server.home     172.16.0.4       2 u   97  512  377    0.177   -1.046   0.130
                *pi-v1.home      .GPS0.           1 u  119  512  377    0.578   -0.353   0.155
                +ntp.cox.net     .GPS.            1 u   91  512  377   51.263    1.371   0.995
                
                p490:/home/stan # ntpq -pn 172.16.0.1
                     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
                ==============================================================================
                +172.16.0.2      172.16.0.4       2 u  110  512  377    0.177   -1.046   0.130
                *172.16.0.4      .GPS0.           1 u  132  512  377    0.578   -0.353   0.155
                +68.0.14.76      .GPS.            1 u  104  512  377   51.263    1.371   0.995
                

                I'm using a Raspberry Pi GPS clock at 172.16.0.4 for my preferred server, peering with a local server at 172.16.0.2 backed up with my ISP's ntp server at 68.0.14.76 in case the Pi has issues.

                What is a RPi GPS clock? And are you running FreeBSD on the Pi?

                NTPQ worked ok.

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                • stan-qazS
                  stan-qaz
                  last edited by

                  I'm using this board to get a GPS based clock on the Raspberry Pi, added the external antenna to improve the signal through my roof.

                  https://www.adafruit.com/products/2324

                  If ntpq worked then your ntp server is set up, running and accessible so all you need is a ntp client for your lan machines. What works depends on what os you are running.

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                  • H
                    Harvy66
                    last edited by

                    I looked into a Raspberry Pi GPS, but based on what I could find, the jitter and offset was almost always worse than what I get to public Stratum 1 NTP servers.

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                    • stan-qazS
                      stan-qaz
                      last edited by

                      Were you looking at one of the USB based GPS setups?

                      The Adafruit version (two available, dumb board or hat board) provides direct serial and PPS support and as you can see from my ntpq numbers it is beating my ISP's ntp system. I found that when using pool servers or specific public ones ntp usually picked the Pi as the peer (shown by the * on the ntpq line) so I pulled them from my config files.

                      Did you find an ntp client for your machines and is it working now?

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                      • johnpozJ
                        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                        last edited by

                        jitter and offset to what?  The time from gps?  All you really need that for is to get the pps within 1 second.  The actual thing that is keeping the time accurate is the pps signal.  And there your going to be right on the money..

                        
                        current host set to pi3-ntp.local.lan
                        ntpq> pe
                             remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
                        ==============================================================================
                        oPPS(0)          .PPS.            0 l   10   16  377    0.000    0.004   0.003
                        *SHM(0)          .GPSD.           1 l   10   16  377    0.000   -8.559   5.031
                        
                        

                        To be honest you don't even need the time from the gps if you have internet connectivity you can just use a time from a stratum 1 on the net that is close to you.  Its the pps signal from the board that is what is useful.  The time from gps just gets you close if you have no access to any other ntp server.

                        I would have to look at what was going on yesterday afternoon evening on why it got a little haywired - but even then your talking 20 microseconds off, not miliseconds.  Normally it is within 5micro seconds.  Which for the < than $100 it cost to put together.  I pretty sure that is pretty freaking good ;)  Way better then your going to get syncing off the internet.

                        My pfsense runs in vm, so its kind of useless as ntp server.  I just point it my pi ntp server.  As I do every other machine on the network.

                        edit: I added all the graphs going back to monthly and yearly.  You can see the little pi keeps pretty good time.. if you look at the average offset with the 20 added to it your talking right on the money off by couple of microseconds..  I am very happy with the pi as a ntp server, and you can not beat the cost and a fun little project to get going..  That is if your into that sort of thing like any respecting uber geek would be ;)

                        ntpgraphs.png
                        ntpgraphs.png_thumb
                        ntpincmonthly.png
                        ntpincmonthly.png_thumb

                        An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                        If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                        Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                        SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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                        • G
                          GomezAddams
                          last edited by

                          @Balanga:

                          @GomezAddams:

                          Daytime doesn't use ntp, it uses an older, simpler protocol. I think…

                          What should I use instead?

                          ntpdate -q

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                          • B
                            Balanga
                            last edited by

                            @GomezAddams:

                            @Balanga:

                            @GomezAddams:

                            Daytime doesn't use ntp, it uses an older, simpler protocol. I think…

                            What should I use instead?

                            ntpdate -q

                            The FreeBSD version ntpdate works fine, but when I run an OS/2 version I get

                            C:\usr\bin>ntpdate.exe -q -d 192.168.1.1
                            9 Jun 20:41:21 C:\usr\bin\ntpdate.exe[13633]: ntpd 4.2.0-os2-emx build 2
                            Looking for host 192.168.1.1 and service ntp
                            host found : pfSense.localdomain
                            transmit(192.168.1.1)
                            receive(192.168.1.1)
                            transmit(192.168.1.1)
                            receive(192.168.1.1)
                            transmit(192.168.1.1)
                            transmit(192.168.1.1)
                            transmit(192.168.1.1)
                            192.168.1.1: Server dropped: strata too high
                            server 192.168.1.1, port 123
                            stratum 16, precision -6, leap 11, trust 000
                            refid [192.168.1.1], delay 0.02557, dispersion 24.06950
                            transmitted 4, in filter 4
                            reference time:    00000000.00000000  Thu, Feb  7 2036  6:28:16.000
                            originate timestamp: db0444e1.d1eb851e  Thu, Jun  9 2016 20:41:21.820
                            transmit timestamp:  db0444e2.deb851eb  Thu, Jun  9 2016 20:41:22.870
                            filter delay:  0.02557  0.04124  0.00000  0.00000
                                    0.00000  0.00000  0.00000  0.00000
                            filter offset: 0.139033 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
                                    0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
                            delay 0.02557, dispersion 24.06950
                            offset 0.139033

                            9 Jun 20:41:23 C:\usr\bin\ntpdate.exe[13633]: no server suitable for synchronization found

                            Can't say that any of that means anything to me….

                            Incidentally looking at the FreeBSD man page

                            https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=ntpdate&sektion=8

                            it says

                            After a
                                suitable period of mourning, the ntpdate utility is to be retired from
                                this distribution.

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                            • stan-qazS
                              stan-qaz
                              last edited by

                              That is saying your ntp server is not well, stratum 16 is about equal in accuracy to a sundial!  :-)

                              192.168.1.1: Server dropped: strata too high
                              server 192.168.1.1, port 123
                              stratum 16, precision -6, leap 11, trust 000
                              

                              ntp docs here:

                              http://www.ntp.org/documentation.html

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                              • B
                                Balanga
                                last edited by

                                For comparison I just tried the same command from a FreeBSD system

                                root@Desktop:~ # ntpdate -q -d 192.168.1.1
                                10 Jun 10:21:56 ntpdate[5544]: ntpdate 4.2.8p6-a (1)
                                transmit(192.168.1.1)
                                receive(192.168.1.1)
                                transmit(192.168.1.1)
                                receive(192.168.1.1)
                                transmit(192.168.1.1)
                                receive(192.168.1.1)
                                transmit(192.168.1.1)
                                receive(192.168.1.1)
                                server 192.168.1.1, port 123
                                stratum 3, precision -19, leap 00, trust 000
                                refid [192.168.1.1], delay 0.02594, dispersion 0.00002
                                transmitted 4, in filter 4
                                reference time:    db0503de.fb41da29  Fri, Jun 10 2016 10:16:14.981
                                originate timestamp: db05053a.fd647e67  Fri, Jun 10 2016 10:22:02.989
                                transmit timestamp:  db05053a.ee249963  Fri, Jun 10 2016 10:22:02.930
                                filter delay:  0.02600  0.02597  0.02594  0.02599
                                        0.00000  0.00000  0.00000  0.00000
                                filter offset: 0.059365 0.059361 0.059325 0.059352
                                        0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
                                delay 0.02594, dispersion 0.00002
                                offset 0.059325

                                10 Jun 10:22:02 ntpdate[5544]: adjust time server 192.168.1.1 offset 0.059325 sec

                                I guess this shows a problem with the program I'm usingon OS/2.

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                                • johnpozJ
                                  johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                                  last edited by

                                  ntpd 4.2.0-

                                  That is a OLD version of ntp..  That is prob why your having problems..  And works from the system using 4.2.8p6

                                  4.2.0 is from 2003 for gosh sake..

                                  An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                                  If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                                  Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                                  SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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                                  • H
                                    Harvy66
                                    last edited by

                                    @johnpoz:

                                    I would have to look at what was going on yesterday afternoon evening on why it got a little haywired - but even then your talking 20 microseconds off, not miliseconds.  Normally it is within 5micro seconds.  Which for the < than $100 it cost to put together.  I pretty sure that is pretty freaking good ;)  Way better then your going to get syncing off the internet.

                                    My information could be old, but it seems the issue in the reviews was not so much how accurate the PI was able to stay with GPS, but other computer's ability to sync with the PI was hindered by the USB Ethernet making for "poor" quality by some definition of poor.

                                    Active Peer 208.100.4.52 216.86.146.46 2 u 14 256 377 11.469 0.457 0.332
                                    Candidate 67.202.100.50 216.86.146.46 2 u 174 256 377 11.859 0.666 0.166
                                    Outlier 216.239.36.15 92.118.64.39 2 u 198 256 377 35.324 -0.364 0.334
                                    Outlier 216.152.240.220 164.67.62.194 2 u 165 256 377 63.997 0.363 0.173

                                    You know it's good when 0.3ms offset is considered an "Outlier".

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                                    • johnpozJ
                                      johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                                      last edited by

                                      My pi serves up to pool, hundreds of connections all the time…

                                      
                                      ntpq> monstats
                                      enabled:              0x1
                                      addresses:            3097
                                      peak addresses:       3097
                                      maximum addresses:    14563
                                      reclaim above count:  600
                                      reclaim older than:   64
                                      kilobytes:            218
                                      maximum kilobytes:    1024
                                      ntpq>
                                      
                                      

                                      ntpq> mrulist
                                      Ctrl-C will stop MRU retrieval and display partial results.
                                      ^Cmrulist retrieval interrupted by operator.
                                      Displaying partial client list.
                                      Retrieved 1654 unique MRU entries and 0 updates.

                                      So pretty sure it can handle serving up ntp to your network just fine…

                                      Here is my workstation that syncs with my pi, and I have the poll really short

                                      
                                      > ntpq
                                      ntpq> pe
                                           remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
                                      ==============================================================================
                                      *pi3-ntp.local.l .PPS.            1 u   12   32  377    0.266   -0.015   0.007
                                      ntpq>
                                      
                                      

                                      An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                                      If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                                      Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                                      SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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                                      • H
                                        Harvy66
                                        last edited by

                                        Those are much better stats. Better drivers and hardware I bet. Thank you sir, I now have a new project to plan for.

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                                        • stan-qazS
                                          stan-qaz
                                          last edited by

                                          I'm using a very old, non-turbo Pi v1, so old it had to be modified to allow the GPS HAT to mount on it. No tweaks to the basic Raspberrian OS except I don't start the X server on it since it isn't needed with SSH access.

                                          The timekeeping on the Pi is pretty good as yhis ntpq from a ssh to the pi shows:

                                          pi@pi-v1 ~ $ ntpq -p
                                               remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
                                          ==============================================================================
                                          oGPS_NMEA(0)     .GPS0.           0 l    8    8  377    0.000    0.002   0.004
                                          pi@pi-v1 ~ $ 
                                          

                                          That there is some issue on the Pi, as can be seen here compared to the pfSense system, the delay and jitter on the Piare higher, which I attribute that to the weak Ethernet.

                                          t3400-n:/home/stan # ntpq -p server.home
                                               remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
                                          ==============================================================================
                                          *pi-v1.home      .GPS0.           1 u  361 1024  377    0.549    0.274   0.033
                                          +pfSense.home    172.16.0.4       2 u  442 1024  377    0.206    0.020   0.055
                                           server.home     .INIT.          16 u    - 1024    0    0.000    0.000   0.000
                                          +ntp.cox.net     .GPS.            1 u  956 1024  377   51.861    1.931   0.297
                                          t3400-n:/home/stan # 
                                                  1 u  956 1024  377   51.861    1.931   0.297
                                          t3400-n:/home/stan # 
                                          
                                          

                                          If the attachments work here the first is a full ntp display, it is pretty much swamped by the high disp plot. The second is the same plot with the disp line suppressed.

                                          Still for under $100 it is going to be hard to get a more convenient or accurate local time server. I find it quite nice to have my time stable even when the WAN is down due to ISP or equipment problems. Pi, GPS HAT, power brick and remote antenna, throw in a case if you feel fancy. You can also find the old v1 Pi boards dirt cheap as folks move to the v2 or v3 ones.

                                          Screenshot_20160611_013513.png
                                          Screenshot_20160611_013513.png_thumb
                                          Screenshot_20160611_013653.png
                                          Screenshot_20160611_013653.png_thumb

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                                          • B
                                            Balanga
                                            last edited by

                                            Makes me want to dig out my Pi …. What OS are you running on it? Last time I tried I couldn't get FreeBSD installed on it.

                                            I don't suppose pfSense would work on it :)....

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