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    Discovery across vlans

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General pfSense Questions
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    • DerelictD
      Derelict LAYER 8 Netgate
      last edited by Derelict

      Do you need something in the port there? Or that's probably for the proxy. nevermind.

      Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA
      A comprehensive network diagram is worth 10,000 words and 15 conference calls.
      DO NOT set a source address/port in a port forward or firewall rule unless you KNOW you need it!
      Do Not Chat For Help! NO_WAN_EGRESS(TM)

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      • stephenw10S
        stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
        last edited by

        Does IGMPproxy appear to start and run without errors when using VLAN interfaces?

        If you shutdown Avahi do the Mac and iOS Spotify clients also fail to find it?

        I would guess they are using mDNS and the Marantz app is using UPnP.

        Steve

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        • M
          mtk @Derelict
          last edited by

          @derelict said in Discovery across vlans:

          Do you need something in the port there? Or that's probably for the proxy. nevermind.

          👌

          @stephenw10 said in Discovery across vlans:

          Does IGMPproxy appear to start and run without errors when using VLAN interfaces?

          It depends on how it should be set up - I played with the settings too much so at the moment, no it doesn't.
          0_1527709002871_270243c2-d746-40bf-8df2-798005f71ae2-image.png

          If you shutdown Avahi do the Mac and iOS Spotify clients also fail to find it?

          Done & Macbook seem to still find it - Android still doesn't.

          I would guess they are using mDNS and the Marantz app is using UPnP.

          Steve

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          • JKnottJ
            JKnott @mtk
            last edited by

            @mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

            The Marantz App, does allow manual IP, but still cannot access the device

            As Johnpoz mentioned, if there's no gateway, it can't get past a router. Accessing devices on the local network is different from going through a router, as you're trying to do. If there's no gateway setting, that configurable IP address is used instead of automatic discovery.

            When working only on the local LAN, the IP addresses is used to determine the MAC address, by using ARP. The MAC address is then used for the actual communications beteen devices. If the device is on a different network, that's recognized by comparing the remote and local addresses, through the subnet mask, to see if they're on the same network. If not, the packets are sent via the gateway address. However, for this to work, both a subnet mask and gateway are needed. With the method Johnpoz is describing, pfSense is acting as a proxy to pass the packets to another subnet.

            PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
            i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
            UniFi AC-Lite access point

            I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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            • M
              mtk @JKnott
              last edited by

              @jknott said in Discovery across vlans:

              @mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

              The Marantz App, does allow manual IP, but still cannot access the device

              As Johnpoz mentioned, if there's no gateway, it can't get past a router. Accessing devices on the local network is different from going through a router, as you're trying to do. If there's no gateway setting, that configurable IP address is used instead of automatic discovery.

              When working only on the local LAN, the IP addresses is used to determine the MAC address, by using ARP. The MAC address is then used for the actual communications beteen devices. If the device is on a different network, that's recognized by comparing the remote and local addresses, through the subnet mask, to see if they're on the same network. If not, the packets are sent via the gateway address. However, for this to work, both a subnet mask and gateway are needed. With the method Johnpoz is describing, pfSense is acting as a proxy to pass the packets to another subnet.

              Did you see the image I provided, with the IP & gateway & mask?

              JKnottJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • JKnottJ
                JKnott @mtk
                last edited by

                @mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

                Did you see the image I provided, with the IP & gateway & mask?

                Are those on the receiver or Android/iPhone apps? If the receiver then that's for Internet access for updates, etc., not remote control. That's how my Yamaha is set up. Those apps will require a gateway and subnet mask, if they are on a different subnet. That's in addition to multicast being used. Unless specifically configured or managed with IGMP, multicast packets are not passed by a router.

                PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
                i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
                UniFi AC-Lite access point

                I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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                • M
                  mtk @JKnott
                  last edited by

                  @jknott said in Discovery across vlans:

                  Are those on the receiver or Android/iPhone apps? If the receiver then that's for Internet access for updates, etc., not remote control. That's how my Yamaha is set up. Those apps will require a gateway and subnet mask, if they are on a different subnet. That's in addition to multicast being used. Unless specifically configured or managed with IGMP, multicast packets are not passed by a router.

                  Those settings are on the Receiver (web management page) itself, and they set the internet access as well as the local device IP.

                  The Marantz (Android or iPhone) app, doesn't have the option to set a gateway, just the IP of the device you wish to connect to.

                  JKnottJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • JKnottJ
                    JKnott @mtk
                    last edited by

                    @mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

                    @jknott said in Discovery across vlans:

                    Are those on the receiver or Android/iPhone apps? If the receiver then that's for Internet access for updates, etc., not remote control. That's how my Yamaha is set up. Those apps will require a gateway and subnet mask, if they are on a different subnet. That's in addition to multicast being used. Unless specifically configured or managed with IGMP, multicast packets are not passed by a router.

                    Those settings are on the Receiver (web management page) itself, and they set the internet access as well as the local device IP.

                    The Marantz (Android or iPhone) app, doesn't have the option to set a gateway, just the IP of the device you wish to connect to.

                    That's what I thought. The receiver needs a gateway & subnet mask to reach the Internet for updates and content, but not for the phone/tablet apps. Since the phone/tablet apps don't have a subnet mask and gateway, they cannot communicate beyond the router. As Johnpoz mentioned, pfSense would have to be configured to act as a proxy for the receiver. In that instance you'd need to manually configure the IP address on those devices.

                    PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
                    i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
                    UniFi AC-Lite access point

                    I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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                    • M
                      mtk @JKnott
                      last edited by

                      @jknott said in Discovery across vlans:

                      @mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

                      @jknott said in Discovery across vlans:

                      Are those on the receiver or Android/iPhone apps? If the receiver then that's for Internet access for updates, etc., not remote control. That's how my Yamaha is set up. Those apps will require a gateway and subnet mask, if they are on a different subnet. That's in addition to multicast being used. Unless specifically configured or managed with IGMP, multicast packets are not passed by a router.

                      Those settings are on the Receiver (web management page) itself, and they set the internet access as well as the local device IP.

                      The Marantz (Android or iPhone) app, doesn't have the option to set a gateway, just the IP of the device you wish to connect to.

                      That's what I thought. The receiver needs a gateway & subnet mask to reach the Internet for updates and content, but not for the phone/tablet apps. Since the phone/tablet apps don't have a subnet mask and gateway, they cannot communicate beyond the router. As Johnpoz mentioned, pfSense would have to be configured to act as a proxy for the receiver. In that instance you'd need to manually configure the IP address on those devices.

                      Any hint how to do that?

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                      • JKnottJ
                        JKnott
                        last edited by

                        I assume you'd have to set up port forwarding for the protocols used by those apps.

                        PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
                        i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
                        UniFi AC-Lite access point

                        I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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                        • M
                          mtk @JKnott
                          last edited by

                          @jknott said in Discovery across vlans:

                          I assume you'd have to set up port forwarding for the protocols used by those apps.

                          Port forward from where to where?
                          Traffic between VLAN is wide open (see screenshot above).

                          JKnottJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • JKnottJ
                            JKnott @mtk
                            last edited by

                            @mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

                            @jknott said in Discovery across vlans:

                            I assume you'd have to set up port forwarding for the protocols used by those apps.

                            Port forward from where to where?
                            Traffic between VLAN is wide open (see screenshot above).

                            Find out what protocols/port numbers are used, then configure pfSense to forward them to the receiver. It's exactly the same thing as when you have to get past NAT to reach computers on your home network. You determine what has to be forwarded and where.

                            PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
                            i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
                            UniFi AC-Lite access point

                            I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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                            • M
                              mtk @JKnott
                              last edited by

                              @jknott said in Discovery across vlans:

                              @mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

                              @jknott said in Discovery across vlans:

                              I assume you'd have to set up port forwarding for the protocols used by those apps.

                              Port forward from where to where?
                              Traffic between VLAN is wide open (see screenshot above).

                              Find out what protocols/port numbers are used, then configure pfSense to forward them to the receiver. It's exactly the same thing as when you have to get past NAT to reach computers on your home network. You determine what has to be forwarded and where.

                              well, yes, but we still have the "thing" where it works for iPhone/Macbook (so it's probably open), but not for Android and there are no real blocked entries in the log...

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                              • JKnottJ
                                JKnott @mtk
                                last edited by

                                @mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

                                well, yes, but we still have the “thing” where it works for iPhone/Macbook (so it’s probably open), but not for Android and there are no real blocked entries in the log…

                                Does the app on those devices have settings for gateway and subnet mask? If not, I have no idea how they manage to work through a router.

                                PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
                                i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
                                UniFi AC-Lite access point

                                I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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                                • M
                                  mtk @JKnott
                                  last edited by

                                  @jknott said in Discovery across vlans:

                                  @mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

                                  well, yes, but we still have the “thing” where it works for iPhone/Macbook (so it’s probably open), but not for Android and there are no real blocked entries in the log…

                                  Does the app on those devices have settings for gateway and subnet mask? If not, I have no idea how they manage to work through a router.

                                  The app is the Spotify (official) app and no, it doesn't even have IP settings - it just "finds" the Marantz.

                                  jahonixJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • jahonixJ
                                    jahonix @mtk
                                    last edited by

                                    @mtk
                                    May I suggest you ask spotify what differences there are between their working iOS app and their not working Android app in your scenario.

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                                    • M
                                      mtk @jahonix
                                      last edited by

                                      @jahonix said in Discovery across vlans:

                                      @mtk
                                      May I suggest you ask spotify what differences there are between their working iOS app and their not working Android app in your scenario.

                                      I'll do that, but in the meantime, is there any way to see what the iOS/MacOS are doing network-wise vs the Android?
                                      I mean, they are probably initiating some sort of request to see "how is out there", right?

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                                      • JKnottJ
                                        JKnott
                                        last edited by

                                        @mtk said in Discovery across vlans:

                                        is there any way to see what the iOS/MacOS are doing network-wise vs the Android?

                                        You can use Packet Capture record the traffic and then download for viewing with Wireshark. If you have a managed switch, you can use Wireshark directly by configuring the switch for port mirroring.

                                        PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
                                        i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
                                        UniFi AC-Lite access point

                                        I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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                                        • stephenw10S
                                          stephenw10 Netgate Administrator
                                          last edited by

                                          You don't need to configure a subnet or gateway in the phone app for the same reason you need need one in your web browser. It just uses the hosts IP stack with whatever the default route is.

                                          Steve

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                                          • JKnottJ
                                            JKnott @stephenw10
                                            last edited by

                                            @stephenw10 said in Discovery across vlans:

                                            ou don’t need to configure a subnet or gateway in the phone app for the same reason you need need one in your web browser. It just uses the hosts IP stack with whatever the default route is.

                                            Quite so. Not thinking straight. Not enough beer. ;)

                                            PfSense running on Qotom mini PC
                                            i5 CPU, 4 GB memory, 32 GB SSD & 4 Intel Gb Ethernet ports.
                                            UniFi AC-Lite access point

                                            I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...

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