Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box
-
@manwdaplan said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
So they are the non POE 48 Port switches. They are on Amazon here. I was just going to use injectors to power the APs, (just two of them) but now I might just pickup a 16 port Unifi with POE as the switch to attach everything together. I am kinda stuck using Unifi due to the customer mandating them. Like I said before I talked them out of the USG-PRO-4 which I have read very bad reviews on, and understand that the interface is very hard to use, and can not hit GB speeds all the time. I want to use pfsense because it has a large following and I know I can find answers if I have questions (like today)
Look at a midspan unit rather than POE injectors, if you aren’t looking at POE switches, most of the midspan units enable power to be switched off remotely.
Makes things much easier if you need to power cycle access-points.
I’d look at stacked switches if I was doing this myself.
-
You have 200 seats in a 100m radius? OK 10000 sqft is not that big. I would certainly check that no copper runs are more than 100m though.
I would certainly stack the switches if possible. Personally I would not even consider a closet of 5 x 48-port switches that weren't stacked.
The SG-3100 is a great product and will probably move the traffic, but it is really more geared to the SOHO market. I'd probably look at a pair of XG-1537s instead. Probably LACP to the switch stack.
I would also do a wifi survey. 200 seats with 2 APs sounds a little dense. Figure at least a phone for everyone. That's 100 associations for each AP/Radio. I know brands (Ruckus) that can do that with one radio tied behind their backs. Not sure about the Unifi gear. Never seen a dense deployment first-hand. Something like NetSpot for the Mac can get you some pretty effective, if rudimentary, measurements of the wifi propagation through that particular construction. You'll have to estimate it for all the 160-pound bags of mostly-water that will be walking around. Ceiling mounting makes this a lot easier to predict. Survey for 5GHz. 2.4 GHz will propagate further.
200 Seats. How many thousands of dollars per hour do you/they lose if it goes down?
Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA
A comprehensive network diagram is worth 10,000 words and 15 conference calls.
DO NOT set a source address/port in a port forward or firewall rule unless you KNOW you need it!
Do Not Chat For Help! NO_WAN_EGRESS(TM) -
https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_UAP-AC-HD_DS.pdf
-
@nogbadthebad said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_UAP-AC-HD_DS.pdf
I'd personally have to see it to believe it.
2 APs still sounds like not enough for that space even if they can handle that association density.
-
@derelict said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
@nogbadthebad said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_UAP-AC-HD_DS.pdf
I'd personally have to see it to believe it.
2 APs still sounds like not enough for that space even if they can handle that association density.
Agreed, also depends on the shape of the building, is it square or rectangular.
If you have the floor plans, I’ve got a copy of Aruba Visual RF I could do a quick predictive plan using a standard Aruba AP with integrated antennas.
-
@nogbadthebad said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
@derelict said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
@nogbadthebad said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_UAP-AC-HD_DS.pdf
I'd personally have to see it to believe it.
2 APs still sounds like not enough for that space even if they can handle that association density.
Agreed, also depends on the shape of the building, is it square or rectangular.
If you have the floor plans, I’ve got a copy of Aruba Visual RF I could do a quick predictive plan using a standard Aruba AP with integrated antennas.
I will get you a floor plan later tonight when I am at my desk, thank you this will be very helpful
-
@manwdaplan said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
@nogbadthebad said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
@derelict said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
@nogbadthebad said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_UAP-AC-HD_DS.pdf
I'd personally have to see it to believe it.
2 APs still sounds like not enough for that space even if they can handle that association density.
Agreed, also depends on the shape of the building, is it square or rectangular.
If you have the floor plans, I’ve got a copy of Aruba Visual RF I could do a quick predictive plan using a standard Aruba AP with integrated antennas.
I will get you a floor plan later tonight when I am at my desk, thank you this will be very helpful
Draw on the plan where you think the APs are going, also can you dimension the longest side of the building.
-
@derelict said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
Not sure about the Unifi gear.
Bit off topic but did you see their new HIGH Density stuff
https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-xg/This one is for Stadiums and such
https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-wifi-basestation-xg/200 Seats. How many thousands of dollars per hour do you/they lose if it goes down?
This is such a good point!!! But they have 500$ budget for router.. Should be HA and multiple lines.. Everything in the cloud remember.. What happens when that 1 isp is offline?
-
https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Stories/12-BaseStationXGs-provide-exceptional-service-at-high-density/cns-p/2420311
-
Thanks... They do look sweet - nice to see a real world example.. I will have to look deployment story on the smaller XG model.. Might be something to look at for this posters deployment... But sounds like they have a real limited budget to be honest.. The switches are not what I would of used that is for sure - I have no experience with the unifi switches - but if you can not stack them they don't seem to be good fit for such a deployment.
-
https://www.servethehome.com/ubiquiti-edgeswitch-es-16-xg-review-quality-control-absent/ << this puts me off their switches
-
So I am having a issue uploading the floor plan what am I missing just gives me a error when I upload the PNG file.
I might have to go three APs, I was planing on putting in the two I have on order and making sure they are enough, So right now they have about 70 people, they plan on growing to 200, so I do have a little time if expansion is needed.
As far as the backup is concerned, I will have a extra switch waiting onsite, and they have a Linksys EA9000 series router that they are using now, so I will set it up to be swapped in if the router breaks, if one of the 48 port switches goes out, I will just switch those users over to the wifi till I get it fixed. I know its not enterprise worthy but it is cheap, which this customer is very. They have a call center in California that rolls over to this location when there is volume issues.
-
I don't think your floorplan made it through the upload? Not seeing it only
[0_1535726299255_Floor Plan.pdf](Uploading 100%)
You can for sure do things on a tight budgets - but Derelicts statement of how much money is lost per hour/minute is the big thing these companies need to get through their skulls when it comes to networking infrastructure.. On the shelf router you can swap in - ok, how long does that take you to swap in and make sure is working? 1 hour? 10 minutes - I take it your not going to be on site for example. What about off hours? etc.. Redundancy and failover are huge factors that need to be considered when "if it goes down" your talking $$.. Because in the big picture its not if but when it goes down.
What happens when the ISP is offline because of say a fiber cut and you might be offline for a couple of days.. We had a recent fiber cut with 1 isp that took them 3 days to get back up. Not an issue because the backup link was there, etc.
You have to work with in the constraints of the customers budget sure.. Problem is these customers don't understand IT ;) If they did they would not be hiring you... So while it is sometimes a hard sell, make sure they they understand that they could be down for quite some time "when" a part of the network fails.. And since they are depending on that internet connection - when it goes down they are going to be down for the duration.. Hope they have a great SLA with the isp, with major compensation if they do not meet the SLA...
-
I completely agree, normally I work it in slowly, once they get used to me helping with stuff, and maybe we go 3 months in when the next quarter and budgets get refreshed I talk to them about what else is needed, second ISP line (they have comcast fiber with a pretty good SLA) redundant routers, that sort of thing, it harder to hit them with it all at once, but I make it clear where the weak spots are and if something happens, they understand. Now I am not onsite, but I am close and have a process to handle emergency issues, they are not a 24x7 place, so that's a little easier.
-
0_1535727446039_Floor_Plan.zip
There we go
-
So I had another question that is a side note, so I know you guys work for Netgate (maybe not all of you) and they are here to make money, but do you normally not recommend a DIY builds for PFsense? Whats the positive and negatives of a DYI vs Netgate (sorry if this gets a little off this topic).
What do you think of the performance of the SG-1000 how much can it handle user and internet wise? That price sadly for my customers is about the limit they want to spend on routers. (I work with very small customers mom and pop normally that is kinda my nitch most IT guys don't like touching these smaller businesses)
-
After a quick look at the plans i’d say you’ll need more than a couple of access points.
I’d get the cabling contractor to run more copper between the network closet and the ceiling, you can always get some long rj45 patch leads to run above the ceiling to the access points.
-
I do not work for netgate.. Just a fan and user, been using pfsense since like version 1 ;)
I have personal sg4860 at my house - which sure is a bit over many home budgets. But my buddy got one for his house as well ;)
But there ar some other low cost solutions coming I do believe.. The Minnowboard turbot dual is think in the $250 range..
I do not have personal experience with the sg1000.. I keep meaning to pick up one to play with.. But I always find other toys to blow my IT budget on.. Always have to get such purchases approved by the budget committee (wife).. Lastest was moving up to sg300-28 when got the sg4860..
There are some big fans of DIY.. I ran pfsense on VM for many years - if your customers have say a NAS, that for sure could be an option to running pfsense right on that box vs extra hardware for router. Big fan of the VM solution - especially if you like to play with the dev snapshots.. Since its 30 seconds to rollback if something isn't quite right with the latest build ;)
For those that have limited budgets, as long as they are not rocking high speed/gig interent, etc. you should be fine with the sg1000.
When possible I would always suggest with official hardware.. If your going to go diy, then do that - don't buy these china boxes that come "pre-installed" none of them have the right to do that from my understanding.. So you never know what you might get, etc.
-
They really think something they can get at Best Buy is the proper amount of money to spend?
No, I would not use an SG-1000 for this deployment. SG-3100 would be the minimum and I still feel it is inappropriately-small for this installation. Like I said, I would do High-Availability and XG-1537s. Or I would wait for the SG-5100s and use a pair of those.
Sure you can try to roll your own. pfSense runs on most hardware.
-
@derelict said in Multiple Switches cross connect or each port into pfsense box:
They really think something they can get at Best Buy is the proper amount of money to spend?
It's unbelievable what some people think is proper networking. A few weeks ago, I was at one company. Their "network" consisted of small consumer grade routers and switches tied together with patch cords running on the floor! The biggest switch had 8 ports, everything else had 4 or 5. There were multiple NATed subnets, which couldn't talk to each other. They even had patch cords that should have been tossed. I cut the end off one, so they'd stop using it. For some strange reason, they were having VoIP problems. At another one, I saw a patch cord held in place with an elastic band wrapped around the plug and switch. Again, they had several small switches, instead of a proper one from Cisco etc.. At least they only had one router/subnet.
I guess some people consider themselves "expert" because they were able to set up a router from Best Buy.
