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    HEADS UP: Be aware of Trusted Recursive Resolver (TRR) in Firefox

    DHCP and DNS
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    • pfSenseTestP
      pfSenseTest @johnpoz
      last edited by

      @johnpoz said in HEADS UP: Be aware of Trusted Recursive Resolver (TRR) in Firefox:

      I think I can remove that so-reuseport: no since I think that was changed in an update a while back.. Not sure on that one.

      I was wondering about this myself and haven't been able to confirm if it is still needed or not.

      2x SG-5100 | MBT-4220 (retired) | SG-1000 (retired)

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      • johnpozJ
        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
        last edited by johnpoz

        @johnpoz said in HEADS UP: Be aware of Trusted Recursive Resolver (TRR) in Firefox:

        so-reuseport: no

        I just commented it out and restarted unbound, and there are still multiple threads.. So its no longer needed..
        https://forum.netgate.com/post/809158

        JimP goes over in that post

        An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
        If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
        Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
        SG-4860 24.03 | Lab VMs 2.7.2, 24.03

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        • JeGrJ
          JeGr LAYER 8 Moderator
          last edited by

          The whole use case Mozilla and the DoH folks that promote it that much are telling is falling apart IMHO. If a simple NXDOMAIN for the use-application-dns.net Zone is "blocking" the use of DoH in Firefox alltogether, how in the hell is the DoH implementation in Firefox well-thought in the first place? They are pointing fingers at MITM or Rogue ISPs etc. to protect your data and privacy against. OK, fair point, but how in the hell is that protecting if you

          1. completely screw up a fine configured local DNS resolver setup with internal domains by using a DoH server from an external source (and handing your DNS data to them!?)
          2. can override your privacy-DoH-firefox-thingy by said rogue ISP to simply hand out a nxdomain for the use-application-dns.net zone?
          3. begin to segregate DNS into "per application use"? Firefox using DoH with Cloudflare, System using local resolver with internal domains, next Browser/Application uses whatever the f*** they want? How is that transparent and protecting anything about your privacy if you don't have a clue anymore what your system does? It's something like the whole Linux-systemd-everything. NTP? DNS resolving? Yay let's put it into systemd, too! What!?

          Narf 👿

          Don't forget to upvote 👍 those who kindly offered their time and brainpower to help you!

          If you're interested, I'm available to discuss details of German-speaking paid support (for companies) if needed.

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          • kiokomanK
            kiokoman LAYER 8
            last edited by

            simple. privacy is a businness after all. it will not be strange if that work was sponsorized by cloudflare and the like. they are only selling all your data to them and telling you that this way you are more protected ☺
            i hate when company make fun of customers. if they left it as an option instead of imposing it as a default it would have been something else

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            • johnpozJ
              johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
              last edited by johnpoz

              Now it seems google/chrome wants to join in on the data mining fun.. WTF!!!
              https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-to-run-dns-over-https-doh-experiment-in-chrome/

              dot is easy to block since uses its own port... But guess its time to start compiling list of all known doh servers and blocking them.. Gawd Damn it!!!

              An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
              If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
              Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
              SG-4860 24.03 | Lab VMs 2.7.2, 24.03

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              • JeGrJ
                JeGr LAYER 8 Moderator
                last edited by

                @johnpoz said in HEADS UP: Be aware of Trusted Recursive Resolver (TRR) in Firefox:

                But guess its time to start compiling list of all known doh servers and blocking them.. Gawd Damn it!!!

                They are also contradicting their own argumentation. Mozilla for example arguments over governmental or rogue ISPs grabbing your data. At the same time they 1) send all your data to a single provider instead of using resolvers to dsitribute the DNS calls to a wide range of servers and 2) use use-application-dns.net as their canary to determine wether or not to disable automagic DoH. So we roll out some application specific black magic BS that breaks your local setup but hand out the free pass for their own attackers to disable it. WTF? How is that thought-out? 🤦 First thing a rogue ISP or anyone else would be to hand out NXDOMAIN to use-application-dns.net calls to disable that. And if anyone does that... yeah.

                Pushing OS developers to include DoT and DoH in their base OS and as next step push all DNS servers to wide-range adaption of both protocols would be the right way. Then you could just tell your local resolver to use either DoH/DoT for resolving (and do or don't fallback to normal udp/53 DNS). Their tactic? No just send it all to Google/Cloudflare etc. Right...

                Don't forget to upvote 👍 those who kindly offered their time and brainpower to help you!

                If you're interested, I'm available to discuss details of German-speaking paid support (for companies) if needed.

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                • kiokomanK
                  kiokoman LAYER 8
                  last edited by kiokoman

                  the Internet Services Providers Association (ISPAUK), a trade association for internet service providers in the UK, decided to nominate Mozilla for its award of 2019 Internet Villain, next to Donald Trump and the EU's Article 13 Copyright Directive.

                  😂

                  https://www.zdnet.com/article/mozilla-no-plans-to-enable-dns-over-https-by-default-in-the-uk/

                  https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/07/ispa-pulls-uk-internet-villain-category-over-mozilla-doh-fallout.html

                  ISPAUK have a point here

                  An application switching to DoH should ensure that this switch does not undermine choices that have been previously made by the user. For example, if parents have decided to filter an internet connection in their home via network or local level DNS controls, these choices should not simply be ignored by the application.

                  If DoH doesn’t work or is slow, a customer’s internet access will be affected. The customer will contact their ISP, not the DoH provider, but the ISP won’t be able to fix things for them. As a minimum, any application switching to DoH should ensure that the selected resolver should provide a 24/7 user call centre reachable via low-cost/local rate telephony and an online support capability. Support for fault-diagnosis and resolution between ISP, resolver and users should also be provided.

                  ̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(◕_◕)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿
                  Please do not use chat/PM to ask for help
                  we must focus on silencing this @guest character. we must make up lies and alter the copyrights !
                  Don't forget to Upvote with the 👍 button for any post you find to be helpful.

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                  • johnpozJ
                    johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                    last edited by johnpoz

                    @kiokoman said in HEADS UP: Be aware of Trusted Recursive Resolver (TRR) in Firefox:

                    An application switching to DoH should ensure that this switch does not undermine choices that have been previously made by the user

                    All of which just SCREAMS this can not be opt-out, but MUST be OPT-IN to switch...Where the users has to specifically do something to actually use it, vs just using the OS already set dns..

                    edit:
                    I think the thought process has gone something like this.
                    Q: How can we mine more data from our users without logging and sending the info where they go.. "telemetry" they don't seem to like that.

                    A: Lets have them use us for dns, so that we know everywhere they they go.

                    Q: How can we get them to do that?
                    A: We will tell them its for their own security, from the bad isp they are paying every month for internet.

                    Q: Well they are not switching over fast enough, and we don't want to actually spend any money on PR to have them think this is best option for their "security/privacy"

                    A: Lets just switch them over, and state that is for their own good if they complain, because they are just too stupid anyway.

                    An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                    If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                    Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                    SG-4860 24.03 | Lab VMs 2.7.2, 24.03

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                    • B
                      bcruze
                      last edited by

                      https://apple.news/AREysIdXnROWCIANTguz06A

                      Not sure if the link will work, they are trying a personal vpn now..

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                      • johnpozJ
                        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                        last edited by

                        They can offer whatever they want - just don't freaking make something like that default... If the user has to turn it on, and make an effort to use it..

                        An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                        If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                        Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                        SG-4860 24.03 | Lab VMs 2.7.2, 24.03

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                        • johnpozJ
                          johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                          last edited by johnpoz

                          So I found this listing of known doh servers
                          https://github.com/curl/curl/wiki/DNS-over-HTTPS#publicly-available-servers

                          I have a pm out of @BBcan177 asking if he plans on easy way of blocking these in pfblocker, if not will be working my own listing of them to use in firewall rules and host overrides to block queries for them.

                          Will prob have dns queries for their fqdn point to a specific IP that I block and log, and any hits to that rule get attention and any devices doing it will if not easy to disable be off the network..

                          An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                          If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                          Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                          SG-4860 24.03 | Lab VMs 2.7.2, 24.03

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                          • JeGrJ
                            JeGr LAYER 8 Moderator
                            last edited by JeGr

                            I'd also use

                            local-zone: "use-application-dns.net" static

                            in the DNS Resolver "custom options" box so to answer with an NXDOMAIN to the canary domain Mozilla uses. Won't help if they switch their approach or simply use a service manually entered but at least the "automagic switch" should be off then.

                            Don't forget to upvote 👍 those who kindly offered their time and brainpower to help you!

                            If you're interested, I'm available to discuss details of German-speaking paid support (for companies) if needed.

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                            • johnpozJ
                              johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                              last edited by johnpoz

                              Yeah been in place for some time already ;)

                              Notice I posted how to do it like 8 days ago ;) Look back over the thread..

                              An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                              If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                              Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                              SG-4860 24.03 | Lab VMs 2.7.2, 24.03

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                              • BBcan177B
                                BBcan177 Moderator @johnpoz
                                last edited by

                                @johnpoz said in HEADS UP: Be aware of Trusted Recursive Resolver (TRR) in Firefox:

                                I have a pm out of @BBcan177 asking if he plans on easy way of blocking these in pfblocker, if not will be working my own listing of them to use in firewall rules and host overrides to block queries for them.

                                Some more details here for now until I add this officially to pfBlockerNG:

                                https://www.reddit.com/r/pfBlockerNG/comments/d3p1gf/doh_server_blocklist/

                                "Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it."

                                Website: http://pfBlockerNG.com
                                Twitter: @BBcan177  #pfBlockerNG
                                Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/pfBlockerNG/new/

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                                • johnpozJ
                                  johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                                  last edited by johnpoz

                                  Thanks - but you the have the
                                  use-application-dns.net

                                  In there - that would not return an NX, so it wouldn't work per my understanding of how the firefox canary is suppose to work.. It has to get back a NX to not enable it from my understanding.

                                  I threw this together real quick this morning from list linked to earlier.

                                  local-data: "dns.adguard.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns-family.adguard.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.google. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "cloudflare-dns.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.quad9.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns9.quad9.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns10.quad9.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.opendns.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.cleanbrowsing.org. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.nextdns.io. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.dnsoverhttps.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.crypto.sx. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.powerdns.org. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh-ch.blahdns.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh-jp.blahdns.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh-de.blahdns.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.dns-over-https.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.securedns.eu. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.rubyfish.cn. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh-2.seby.io. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.seby.ie. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "commons.host. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.dnswarden.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns-nyc.aaflalo.me. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.aaflalo.me. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.appliedprivary.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.captnemo.in. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.tiar.app. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.dns.sb. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "rdns.faelix.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.li. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.armadillodns.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.netweaver.uk. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "jp.tiar.app. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.42l.fr. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"

                                  Here is sample query for one of those.

                                  ;; QUESTION SECTION:
;doh.dns.sb.                    IN      A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
doh.dns.sb.             120     IN      A       172.19.19.19

                                  Simple add that to your custom box in unbound, then put a block log rule in place that logs anything that tries to go to my out of thin air IP that I do not use locally 172.19.19.19

                                  This way I can see if anything is trying to resolve this by just looking if any hits in the firewall rules, and then look into the logs to which IP tried and investigate what its trying to do exactly.

                                  Keep in mind, this could cause you some grief if any of those fqdn are serving up stuff other than doh that you might want to get to.. Some are on other ports other then 443, so I just made the block rule any..

                                  An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                                  If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                                  Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                                  SG-4860 24.03 | Lab VMs 2.7.2, 24.03

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                                  • kiokomanK
                                    kiokoman LAYER 8
                                    last edited by

                                    bind9

                                    $TTL 60
@            IN    SOA  localhost. root.localhost.  (
                      2019091601
                      3H  ; refresh
                      1H  ; retry
                      1W  ; expiry
                      1H) ; minimum
              IN    NS    localhost.

; Make TRR unavailable
dns.adguard.com 120 IN CNAME  .
dns-family.adguard.com 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.google 120 IN CNAME  .
cloudflare-dns.com 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.quad9.net 120 IN CNAME  .
dns9.quad9.net 120 IN CNAME  .
dns10.quad9.net 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.opendns.com 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.cleanbrowsing.org 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.nextdns.io 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.dnsoverhttps.net 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.crypto.sx 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.powerdns.org 120 IN CNAME  .
doh-ch.blahdns.com 120 IN CNAME  .
doh-jp.blahdns.com 120 IN CNAME  .
doh-de.blahdns.com 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.dns-over-https.com 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.securedns.eu 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.rubyfish.cn 120 IN CNAME  .
doh-2.seby.io 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.seby.ie 120 IN CNAME  .
commons.host 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.dnswarden.com 120 IN CNAME  .
dns-nyc.aaflalo.me 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.aaflalo.me 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.appliedprivary.net 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.captnemo.in 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.tiar.app 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.dns.sb 120 IN CNAME  .
rdns.faelix.net 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.li 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.armadillodns.net 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.netweaver.uk 120 IN CNAME  .
jp.tiar.app 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.42l.fr 120 IN CNAME  .

                                    i can change the dot to some "out of thin air ip" if i want to log, reporting NX for the moment

                                    laboratorio@server:/$ dig @127.0.0.1 doh.crypto.sx

; <<>> DiG 9.11.3-1ubuntu1.9-Ubuntu <<>> @127.0.0.1 doh.crypto.sx
; (1 server found)
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 10547
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 2

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096
; COOKIE: dda6e2c23949f6cda855e6485d7fa7fddeb8459af20d8f8b (good)
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;doh.crypto.sx.                 IN      A

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
overrides.              60      IN      SOA     localhost. root.localhost. 2019091601 10800 3600 604800 3600

;; Query time: 4 msec
;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)
;; WHEN: Mon Sep 16 17:19:25 CEST 2019
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 129

                                    ̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(◕_◕)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿
                                    Please do not use chat/PM to ask for help
                                    we must focus on silencing this @guest character. we must make up lies and alter the copyrights !
                                    Don't forget to Upvote with the 👍 button for any post you find to be helpful.

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                                    • johnpozJ
                                      johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                                      last edited by johnpoz

                                      Only reason pointed it to an IP, is I normally don't log dns queries - there are so freaking many of them it can be information overload to weed through... I only enable dns query logs when wanting to troubleshoot a specific issue.

                                      Figured if I point it to a specific IP, I can log any attempted access to that odd IP so can see at a glance in the firewall interface if any hits to it. And then investigate..

                                      Multiple ways to skin the cat is best, so no matter what what users are using specific in there setups they have a easy way to skin this one..

                                      These little devices could bypass these method with a direct query to the IP.. So prob need to put together an alias that lists the actual public IPs and blocks.. This is going to turn into such a shit show..

                                      Uncontrolled circumvention of a local networks controls is not by any stretch of the imagination good for anyone!

                                      An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                                      If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                                      Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                                      SG-4860 24.03 | Lab VMs 2.7.2, 24.03

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                                      • JeGrJ
                                        JeGr LAYER 8 Moderator
                                        last edited by

                                        Was just shown this by colleague: https://bsd.network/interact/102767562311572315
                                        Had to laugh ;)

                                        Don't forget to upvote 👍 those who kindly offered their time and brainpower to help you!

                                        If you're interested, I'm available to discuss details of German-speaking paid support (for companies) if needed.

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                                        • R
                                          Repo
                                          last edited by

                                          This resolver now points to https://mozilla.cloudflare-dns.com/dns-query instead of https://cloudflare-dns.com/dns-query

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                                          • JeGrJ
                                            JeGr LAYER 8 Moderator
                                            last edited by

                                            @JeGr said in HEADS UP: Be aware of Trusted Recursive Resolver (TRR) in Firefox:

                                            canary

                                            But the canary stayed the same, so that should already disable it.

                                            Don't forget to upvote 👍 those who kindly offered their time and brainpower to help you!

                                            If you're interested, I'm available to discuss details of German-speaking paid support (for companies) if needed.

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