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    HEADS UP: Be aware of Trusted Recursive Resolver (TRR) in Firefox

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved DHCP and DNS
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    • johnpozJ
      johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
      last edited by johnpoz

      @kiokoman said in HEADS UP: Be aware of Trusted Recursive Resolver (TRR) in Firefox:

      An application switching to DoH should ensure that this switch does not undermine choices that have been previously made by the user

      All of which just SCREAMS this can not be opt-out, but MUST be OPT-IN to switch...Where the users has to specifically do something to actually use it, vs just using the OS already set dns..

      edit:
      I think the thought process has gone something like this.
      Q: How can we mine more data from our users without logging and sending the info where they go.. "telemetry" they don't seem to like that.

      A: Lets have them use us for dns, so that we know everywhere they they go.

      Q: How can we get them to do that?
      A: We will tell them its for their own security, from the bad isp they are paying every month for internet.

      Q: Well they are not switching over fast enough, and we don't want to actually spend any money on PR to have them think this is best option for their "security/privacy"

      A: Lets just switch them over, and state that is for their own good if they complain, because they are just too stupid anyway.

      An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
      If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
      Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
      SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • B
        bcruze
        last edited by

        https://apple.news/AREysIdXnROWCIANTguz06A

        Not sure if the link will work, they are trying a personal vpn now..

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • johnpozJ
          johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
          last edited by

          They can offer whatever they want - just don't freaking make something like that default... If the user has to turn it on, and make an effort to use it..

          An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
          If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
          Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
          SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
          • johnpozJ
            johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
            last edited by johnpoz

            So I found this listing of known doh servers
            https://github.com/curl/curl/wiki/DNS-over-HTTPS#publicly-available-servers

            I have a pm out of @BBcan177 asking if he plans on easy way of blocking these in pfblocker, if not will be working my own listing of them to use in firewall rules and host overrides to block queries for them.

            Will prob have dns queries for their fqdn point to a specific IP that I block and log, and any hits to that rule get attention and any devices doing it will if not easy to disable be off the network..

            An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
            If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
            Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
            SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

            BBcan177B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • JeGrJ
              JeGr LAYER 8 Moderator
              last edited by JeGr

              I'd also use

              local-zone: "use-application-dns.net" static

              in the DNS Resolver "custom options" box so to answer with an NXDOMAIN to the canary domain Mozilla uses. Won't help if they switch their approach or simply use a service manually entered but at least the "automagic switch" should be off then.

              Don't forget to upvote 👍 those who kindly offered their time and brainpower to help you!

              If you're interested, I'm available to discuss details of German-speaking paid support (for companies) if needed.

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              • johnpozJ
                johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                last edited by johnpoz

                Yeah been in place for some time already ;)

                Notice I posted how to do it like 8 days ago ;) Look back over the thread..

                An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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                • BBcan177B
                  BBcan177 Moderator @johnpoz
                  last edited by

                  @johnpoz said in HEADS UP: Be aware of Trusted Recursive Resolver (TRR) in Firefox:

                  I have a pm out of @BBcan177 asking if he plans on easy way of blocking these in pfblocker, if not will be working my own listing of them to use in firewall rules and host overrides to block queries for them.

                  Some more details here for now until I add this officially to pfBlockerNG:

                  https://www.reddit.com/r/pfBlockerNG/comments/d3p1gf/doh_server_blocklist/

                  "Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it."

                  Website: http://pfBlockerNG.com
                  Twitter: @BBcan177  #pfBlockerNG
                  Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/pfBlockerNG/new/

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                  • johnpozJ
                    johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                    last edited by johnpoz

                    Thanks - but you the have the
                    use-application-dns.net

                    In there - that would not return an NX, so it wouldn't work per my understanding of how the firefox canary is suppose to work.. It has to get back a NX to not enable it from my understanding.

                    I threw this together real quick this morning from list linked to earlier.

                    local-data: "dns.adguard.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns-family.adguard.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.google. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "cloudflare-dns.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.quad9.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns9.quad9.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns10.quad9.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.opendns.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.cleanbrowsing.org. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.nextdns.io. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.dnsoverhttps.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.crypto.sx. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.powerdns.org. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh-ch.blahdns.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh-jp.blahdns.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh-de.blahdns.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.dns-over-https.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.securedns.eu. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.rubyfish.cn. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh-2.seby.io. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.seby.ie. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "commons.host. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.dnswarden.com. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns-nyc.aaflalo.me. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "dns.aaflalo.me. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.appliedprivary.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.captnemo.in. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.tiar.app. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.dns.sb. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "rdns.faelix.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.li. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.armadillodns.net. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.netweaver.uk. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "jp.tiar.app. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"
local-data: "doh.42l.fr. 120 IN A 172.19.19.19"

                    Here is sample query for one of those.

                    ;; QUESTION SECTION:
;doh.dns.sb.                    IN      A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
doh.dns.sb.             120     IN      A       172.19.19.19

                    Simple add that to your custom box in unbound, then put a block log rule in place that logs anything that tries to go to my out of thin air IP that I do not use locally 172.19.19.19

                    This way I can see if anything is trying to resolve this by just looking if any hits in the firewall rules, and then look into the logs to which IP tried and investigate what its trying to do exactly.

                    Keep in mind, this could cause you some grief if any of those fqdn are serving up stuff other than doh that you might want to get to.. Some are on other ports other then 443, so I just made the block rule any..

                    An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                    If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                    Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                    SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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                    • kiokomanK
                      kiokoman LAYER 8
                      last edited by

                      bind9

                      $TTL 60
@            IN    SOA  localhost. root.localhost.  (
                      2019091601
                      3H  ; refresh
                      1H  ; retry
                      1W  ; expiry
                      1H) ; minimum
              IN    NS    localhost.

; Make TRR unavailable
dns.adguard.com 120 IN CNAME  .
dns-family.adguard.com 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.google 120 IN CNAME  .
cloudflare-dns.com 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.quad9.net 120 IN CNAME  .
dns9.quad9.net 120 IN CNAME  .
dns10.quad9.net 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.opendns.com 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.cleanbrowsing.org 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.nextdns.io 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.dnsoverhttps.net 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.crypto.sx 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.powerdns.org 120 IN CNAME  .
doh-ch.blahdns.com 120 IN CNAME  .
doh-jp.blahdns.com 120 IN CNAME  .
doh-de.blahdns.com 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.dns-over-https.com 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.securedns.eu 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.rubyfish.cn 120 IN CNAME  .
doh-2.seby.io 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.seby.ie 120 IN CNAME  .
commons.host 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.dnswarden.com 120 IN CNAME  .
dns-nyc.aaflalo.me 120 IN CNAME  .
dns.aaflalo.me 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.appliedprivary.net 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.captnemo.in 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.tiar.app 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.dns.sb 120 IN CNAME  .
rdns.faelix.net 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.li 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.armadillodns.net 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.netweaver.uk 120 IN CNAME  .
jp.tiar.app 120 IN CNAME  .
doh.42l.fr 120 IN CNAME  .

                      i can change the dot to some "out of thin air ip" if i want to log, reporting NX for the moment

                      laboratorio@server:/$ dig @127.0.0.1 doh.crypto.sx

; <<>> DiG 9.11.3-1ubuntu1.9-Ubuntu <<>> @127.0.0.1 doh.crypto.sx
; (1 server found)
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 10547
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 2

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 4096
; COOKIE: dda6e2c23949f6cda855e6485d7fa7fddeb8459af20d8f8b (good)
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;doh.crypto.sx.                 IN      A

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
overrides.              60      IN      SOA     localhost. root.localhost. 2019091601 10800 3600 604800 3600

;; Query time: 4 msec
;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)
;; WHEN: Mon Sep 16 17:19:25 CEST 2019
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 129

                      ̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(◕_◕)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿
                      Please do not use chat/PM to ask for help
                      we must focus on silencing this @guest character. we must make up lies and alter the copyrights !
                      Don't forget to Upvote with the 👍 button for any post you find to be helpful.

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                      • johnpozJ
                        johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                        last edited by johnpoz

                        Only reason pointed it to an IP, is I normally don't log dns queries - there are so freaking many of them it can be information overload to weed through... I only enable dns query logs when wanting to troubleshoot a specific issue.

                        Figured if I point it to a specific IP, I can log any attempted access to that odd IP so can see at a glance in the firewall interface if any hits to it. And then investigate..

                        Multiple ways to skin the cat is best, so no matter what what users are using specific in there setups they have a easy way to skin this one..

                        These little devices could bypass these method with a direct query to the IP.. So prob need to put together an alias that lists the actual public IPs and blocks.. This is going to turn into such a shit show..

                        Uncontrolled circumvention of a local networks controls is not by any stretch of the imagination good for anyone!

                        An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                        If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                        Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                        SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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                        • JeGrJ
                          JeGr LAYER 8 Moderator
                          last edited by

                          Was just shown this by colleague: https://bsd.network/interact/102767562311572315
                          Had to laugh ;)

                          Don't forget to upvote 👍 those who kindly offered their time and brainpower to help you!

                          If you're interested, I'm available to discuss details of German-speaking paid support (for companies) if needed.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                          • R
                            Repo
                            last edited by

                            This resolver now points to https://mozilla.cloudflare-dns.com/dns-query instead of https://cloudflare-dns.com/dns-query

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                            • JeGrJ
                              JeGr LAYER 8 Moderator
                              last edited by

                              @JeGr said in HEADS UP: Be aware of Trusted Recursive Resolver (TRR) in Firefox:

                              canary

                              But the canary stayed the same, so that should already disable it.

                              Don't forget to upvote 👍 those who kindly offered their time and brainpower to help you!

                              If you're interested, I'm available to discuss details of German-speaking paid support (for companies) if needed.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • NollipfSenseN
                                NollipfSense
                                last edited by

                                I have been reading this thread and have added the list found in the link that BBcan177 provided above to DNSBL. However, where is the about:config mentioned by Jim so I can set network.trr.mode to 5? This is what I saw in Firefox preference:
                                Screen Shot 2019-10-06 at 1.05.22 PM.png

                                pfSense+ 23.09 Lenovo Thinkcentre M93P SFF Quadcore i7 dual Raid-ZFS 128GB-SSD 32GB-RAM PCI-Intel i350-t4 NIC, -Intel QAT 8950.
                                pfSense+ 23.09 VM-Proxmox, Dell Precision Xeon-W2155 Nvme 500GB-ZFS 128GB-RAM PCIe-Intel i350-t4, Intel QAT-8950, P-cloud.

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                                • johnpozJ
                                  johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                                  last edited by

                                  in the about:config section

                                  aboutconfig.png

                                  An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                                  If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                                  Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                                  SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

                                  NollipfSenseN 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • NollipfSenseN
                                    NollipfSense @johnpoz
                                    last edited by

                                    @johnpoz Thanks John for responding...it seems that Macs don't have that options...I am using Firefox 69.0.2...

                                    Screen Shot 2019-10-06 at 2.33.59 PM.png

                                    pfSense+ 23.09 Lenovo Thinkcentre M93P SFF Quadcore i7 dual Raid-ZFS 128GB-SSD 32GB-RAM PCI-Intel i350-t4 NIC, -Intel QAT 8950.
                                    pfSense+ 23.09 VM-Proxmox, Dell Precision Xeon-W2155 Nvme 500GB-ZFS 128GB-RAM PCIe-Intel i350-t4, Intel QAT-8950, P-cloud.

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                                    • johnpozJ
                                      johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                                      last edited by johnpoz

                                      I don't have a mac to test with.. But your at about:preferences not about:config?

                                      No you wouldn't find it there - see I went there in my windows firefox

                                      firefoxpref.png

                                      An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                                      If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                                      Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                                      SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

                                      NollipfSenseN 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • NollipfSenseN
                                        NollipfSense @johnpoz
                                        last edited by

                                        @johnpoz Found it John...one has to type about:config in the URL bar and accept the risk...thank you!

                                        Screen Shot 2019-10-06 at 3.01.32 PM.png

                                        pfSense+ 23.09 Lenovo Thinkcentre M93P SFF Quadcore i7 dual Raid-ZFS 128GB-SSD 32GB-RAM PCI-Intel i350-t4 NIC, -Intel QAT 8950.
                                        pfSense+ 23.09 VM-Proxmox, Dell Precision Xeon-W2155 Nvme 500GB-ZFS 128GB-RAM PCIe-Intel i350-t4, Intel QAT-8950, P-cloud.

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                                        • H
                                          HuskerDu
                                          last edited by HuskerDu

                                          I've just tried the unbound custom option... it seems Firefox keeps asking for its DoH stuff, Suricata seeing some associated traffic.

                                          1	TCP	A Network Trojan was Detected	10.X.X.X 51133	104.16.249.249 443	1:2027695 ET POLICY Observed Cloudflare DNS over HTTPS Domain (cloudflare-dns .com in TLS SNI)
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                                          • johnpozJ
                                            johnpoz LAYER 8 Global Moderator
                                            last edited by

                                            Did you set TRR in firefox to 5? Without some details of what you actually did there is little anyone can do to help you find out what you did wrong.

                                            You need to make sure unbound return NX..

                                            nx.jpg

                                            I watch this like a hawk and have rules in place to log any sort of doh to any of the know ns doing doh, and block tos - and have not seen any hits on the rules at all.

                                            An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
                                            If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
                                            Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
                                            SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11

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