be honest are you worried about corona

Gertjan

@DaddyGo said in be honest are you worried about corona:

CEO

I'll miss the twitter entertainment ....

DaddyGo

exactly
therefore, we do not drink disinfectant with a UV lamp in our hand

provels

@markn6262 @jwj
I'll plead ignorance, but why is the denominator so important when the positive cases are so massive? It's not like this is some lab experiment with a control group, etc. Areas like FL, TX, AZ, CA, can barely keep up as is. People are generally getting tested because they have symptoms, it's not an end to end testing of the population. I haven't been tested, have you folks?

A Former User

@provels It's not. You're certainly not ignorant! The cases are massive and the accounting is incomplete. Particularly in the US we are approaching this with our heads stuck completely up our butts. Just try to be smart, avoid the fools. See a bunch of non mask wearing people in the bread aisle? Wait a few minutes for them to leave and then go in and get your bread.

Yes I have been tested, twice.

provels

@jwj
Why were you tested? Assuming you presented no symptoms?
At least the deaths/tested is falling.

bmeeks

The number of deaths in my state has also plummeted as a percentage of positive cases compared to late March and very early April- even while the number of new cases has increased ("surged" to use the favorite word of this week ). It's interesting to see the number of hospitalizations decrease also (in the majority of locations) and the number of deaths decrease rather sharply (in pretty much every location). Either the virus that folks are catching now is some mutated less deadly form, or the treatments have dramatically improved. I'm thinking it is probably the latter. Learning that a cytokine storm was a big contributor to the deaths of many victims was key in my opinion. Now doctors are alert for that and can administer counteracting drugs quickly if required.

I have not gone off searching for one on the web, but it would be interesting to see what ratio of the folks getting positive test results are asymptomatic. As more and more folks are getting tested due to the availability of so many free testing sites, surely some asymptomatic folks are being detected. You would also hope that blood banks and doctor's offices are screening routine blood draws for coronavirus antibodies to see what percentage of folks exist out there who have likely developed an immunity, or at least a resistance to the cornavirus.

To me there are only two paths for this virus. The best case path is a safe and effective vaccine is quickly developed and widely deployed and cornavirus joins the ranks of polio as a largely elminated threat. The other path is one where no effective vaccine is developed. If that is the case, then coronavirus will wind up being treated like all the other flu-like diseases. The falling death rate seems to indicate that the seriousness of the illness is declining for the majority of the population. You probably will still have to protect the truly vulnerable, but that's no different than before the outbreak where folks with seriously compromised immune systems kept themselves isolated (think cancer patients on chemo, for example). The rest of society operated normally.

provels

Remains to be seen what happens when things get a bit more back to normal and people are mixing more, but it doesn't seem to have worked out too well for FL and TX. Schools still closed and as many of the still employed as possible working remotely. Glad I'm retired and don't have to mix with the public on a regular basis. Only put 800 miles on my car since December, LOL.

Scheduled a double red blood draw at the Red Cross for next month. They are including Covid testing (assuming antibody).

bmeeks

I don't want to come across as cold and uncaring, but it is likely a good thing that more people are getting the virus and recovering (the falling death rate indicates higher recovery rates). That is the process that will build the so-called herd immunity the experts talk about.

I don't think you can totally eradicate this virus with lockdowns because you can't truly lock down everything. Grocery stores have to stay open with their checkout clerks encountering every person that comes through. Other critical businesses have to stay open such as banks, and then you have critical industry such as power plants and all the factories that produce the food we eat. Then you need the truckers and railroads to haul all that stuff around and get it to the stores. So my point is there is no such thing as a total lockdown. So all that "critical infrastructure" that you must leave operating gives the virus a place to lurk. Every employee working in that critical infrastructure is a potential spreader. Then the instant you start opening things up, the virus comes out of hiding, cases go up and you are back to square one again. This is because everyone who is locked down and isolated will develop exactly zero immunity to the virus.

But if you have reached the magical herd immunity threshold, the virus is effectively knee-capped.

provels

@bmeeks said in be honest are you worried about corona:

But if you have reached the magical herd immunity threshold, the virus is effectively knee-capped.

Yes, I think that will end up requiring a vaccine. Then the same herd immunity that protects anti-vaxxers from polio, measles, and mumps will exist.

bmeeks

@provels
Agreed. And my point about more people getting the virus and recovering is that we should not let the media histronics about rising cases terrify us into new lockdowns just yet. We just need to closely monitor the death rate and the hospitalization rate (in particular the ICU admissions as those signal serious illness as compared to just a hospitalization stay in a normal bed). If the death rate stays steady or continues to trend down, and ICU admissions stay manageable, my vote is we let the virus infection play out and that's how we finally get our herd immunity. That's not to say that in specific locations more stringent measures might be necessary for some activities, but I think the wholesale lockdowns we tried in March and April were actually not the best strategy. After all, they seem to have failed at eliminating the virus spread. And I think that no matter when a state "opened up", cases were going to go up. A highly contagious virus is going to spread until its potential victims have immunity. Hiding from it is not a good long-term strategy. You get that needed immunity either from a vaccine or from the herd immunity.

Maybe a vaccine that is effective and proven safe arrives quickly. But in case one does not show up, we need that herd immunity to start kicking in. We can't wear masks and stay 6 feet or more apart from other humans for the rest of our life. What kind of life would that be anyway? We are, by nature, social animals after all.

A Former User

@provels Tested to allow multiple international trips. Occupational hazard.

NollipfSense

Based on what we're seeing today in the U.S., we should really be worrying about the fall ... it looks as if it will hit us like an eighteen wheeler that lost its brakes ... the good news is capitalism might be doomed forever.

A Former User

@NollipfSense I'm afraid the bits of our system that will survive are the predatory bits.

chpalmer

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/239-experts-with-1-big-claim-the-coronavirus-is-airborne/ar-BB16l0RP?li=BBnb7Kz

The virus lingers in the air indoors, infecting those nearby.

Ventilation systems in schools, nursing homes, residences and businesses may need to minimize recirculating air and add powerful new filters. Ultraviolet lights may be needed to kill viral particles floating in tiny droplets indoors.

So I ask again..

So why did the governments tell people they should stay inside with their stagnant air and not recommend that they turn on every exhaust fan they have in the house 24/7?

provels

Lucky I live alone and am unemployed by choice (retired).
Got a haircut Friday. Their shop is working 7 days now, 2 shifts. Had to phone in and wait in car. Came out masked to take my temp and escorted me in. First hand sanitizer, then signing a sheet saying I had no symptoms, etc., etc. New pens in one cup, used in another. Partitions of PVC pipe and plastic sheet between wash stations and stylists chairs. About half staffed.
Also installed some UV sanitizing scrubbers in the HVAC.
One way traffic through building.

valentinius

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valentinius

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guardian

What does everyone think now? I'm personally concerned that nobody is asking the right questions because they think (or the authorities want to make you think) that you know the answer?

“Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.”
― Walter Lippmann

There are some interesting points made here:
(remove the -- and spaces used to keep the link from the search engines)

https://www.you--------tu--be.com/watch?v=p5XVwPFdbqM

US Deaths as a % of Population:
215,506/331,515,730=0.065%

From what I have seen most are elderly or have serious underlying conditions (and the cause of death should be cancer, heart disease, alzheimers etc.).

Does this really justify closing down the country?

What is the legitimate justification for censoring/denegrating information and open debate by scientists/doctors who are (based on their clinical observations), questioning the official narrative?

Why is the western world blindly following the WHO (that has massive fincial conflicts of interest - China, Pharmaceutical industry, to name the main ones.

They make some interesting points:
https://gbdecl--------aration.org/

Thoughts?

provels

I suppose you could explain the elderly death count as "If a 70 year-old with high blood pressure slams his car into a tree, it wasn't really the tree that killed him".

US - 4% of the world population.
But 20% of the deaths.
We should have done better.

People list Sweden as an example. But their universal access to healthcare tilts the odds in their favor. Perhaps if the US citizen had that, we would have done better. At any rate, I'm glad I am retired and don't have to deal with this crap day to day, or worse, be unemployed and losing my house, car, and next meal.

A Former User

@provels said in be honest are you worried about corona:

I suppose you could explain the elderly death count as "If a 70 year-old with high blood pressure slams his car into a tree, it wasn't really the tree that killed him".

US - 4% of the world population.
But 20% of the deaths.
We should have done better.

People list Sweden as an example. But their universal access to healthcare tilts the odds in their favor. Perhaps if the US citizen had that, we would have done better. At any rate, I'm glad I am retired and don't have to deal with this crap day to day, or worse, be unemployed and losing my house, car, and next meal.

We could have done better. That's the saddest thing. Think about it, we have a white house super spreader event. It's just appalling.