be honest are you worried about corona

provels

Remains to be seen what happens when things get a bit more back to normal and people are mixing more, but it doesn't seem to have worked out too well for FL and TX. Schools still closed and as many of the still employed as possible working remotely. Glad I'm retired and don't have to mix with the public on a regular basis. Only put 800 miles on my car since December, LOL.

Scheduled a double red blood draw at the Red Cross for next month. They are including Covid testing (assuming antibody).

bmeeks

I don't want to come across as cold and uncaring, but it is likely a good thing that more people are getting the virus and recovering (the falling death rate indicates higher recovery rates). That is the process that will build the so-called herd immunity the experts talk about.

I don't think you can totally eradicate this virus with lockdowns because you can't truly lock down everything. Grocery stores have to stay open with their checkout clerks encountering every person that comes through. Other critical businesses have to stay open such as banks, and then you have critical industry such as power plants and all the factories that produce the food we eat. Then you need the truckers and railroads to haul all that stuff around and get it to the stores. So my point is there is no such thing as a total lockdown. So all that "critical infrastructure" that you must leave operating gives the virus a place to lurk. Every employee working in that critical infrastructure is a potential spreader. Then the instant you start opening things up, the virus comes out of hiding, cases go up and you are back to square one again. This is because everyone who is locked down and isolated will develop exactly zero immunity to the virus.

But if you have reached the magical herd immunity threshold, the virus is effectively knee-capped.

provels

@bmeeks said in be honest are you worried about corona:

But if you have reached the magical herd immunity threshold, the virus is effectively knee-capped.

Yes, I think that will end up requiring a vaccine. Then the same herd immunity that protects anti-vaxxers from polio, measles, and mumps will exist.

bmeeks

@provels
Agreed. And my point about more people getting the virus and recovering is that we should not let the media histronics about rising cases terrify us into new lockdowns just yet. We just need to closely monitor the death rate and the hospitalization rate (in particular the ICU admissions as those signal serious illness as compared to just a hospitalization stay in a normal bed). If the death rate stays steady or continues to trend down, and ICU admissions stay manageable, my vote is we let the virus infection play out and that's how we finally get our herd immunity. That's not to say that in specific locations more stringent measures might be necessary for some activities, but I think the wholesale lockdowns we tried in March and April were actually not the best strategy. After all, they seem to have failed at eliminating the virus spread. And I think that no matter when a state "opened up", cases were going to go up. A highly contagious virus is going to spread until its potential victims have immunity. Hiding from it is not a good long-term strategy. You get that needed immunity either from a vaccine or from the herd immunity.

Maybe a vaccine that is effective and proven safe arrives quickly. But in case one does not show up, we need that herd immunity to start kicking in. We can't wear masks and stay 6 feet or more apart from other humans for the rest of our life. What kind of life would that be anyway? We are, by nature, social animals after all.

@provels Tested to allow multiple international trips. Occupational hazard.

NollipfSense

Based on what we're seeing today in the U.S., we should really be worrying about the fall ... it looks as if it will hit us like an eighteen wheeler that lost its brakes ... the good news is capitalism might be doomed forever.

@NollipfSense I'm afraid the bits of our system that will survive are the predatory bits.

chpalmer

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/239-experts-with-1-big-claim-the-coronavirus-is-airborne/ar-BB16l0RP?li=BBnb7Kz

The virus lingers in the air indoors, infecting those nearby.

Ventilation systems in schools, nursing homes, residences and businesses may need to minimize recirculating air and add powerful new filters. Ultraviolet lights may be needed to kill viral particles floating in tiny droplets indoors.

So I ask again..

So why did the governments tell people they should stay inside with their stagnant air and not recommend that they turn on every exhaust fan they have in the house 24/7?

provels

Lucky I live alone and am unemployed by choice (retired).
Got a haircut Friday. Their shop is working 7 days now, 2 shifts. Had to phone in and wait in car. Came out masked to take my temp and escorted me in. First hand sanitizer, then signing a sheet saying I had no symptoms, etc., etc. New pens in one cup, used in another. Partitions of PVC pipe and plastic sheet between wash stations and stylists chairs. About half staffed.
Also installed some UV sanitizing scrubbers in the HVAC.
One way traffic through building.

valentinius

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valentinius

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guardian

What does everyone think now? I'm personally concerned that nobody is asking the right questions because they think (or the authorities want to make you think) that you know the answer?

“Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.”
― Walter Lippmann

There are some interesting points made here:
(remove the -- and spaces used to keep the link from the search engines)

https://www.you--------tu--be.com/watch?v=p5XVwPFdbqM

US Deaths as a % of Population:
215,506/331,515,730=0.065%

From what I have seen most are elderly or have serious underlying conditions (and the cause of death should be cancer, heart disease, alzheimers etc.).

Does this really justify closing down the country?

What is the legitimate justification for censoring/denegrating information and open debate by scientists/doctors who are (based on their clinical observations), questioning the official narrative?

Why is the western world blindly following the WHO (that has massive fincial conflicts of interest - China, Pharmaceutical industry, to name the main ones.

They make some interesting points:
https://gbdecl--------aration.org/

Thoughts?

provels

I suppose you could explain the elderly death count as "If a 70 year-old with high blood pressure slams his car into a tree, it wasn't really the tree that killed him".

US - 4% of the world population.
But 20% of the deaths.
We should have done better.

People list Sweden as an example. But their universal access to healthcare tilts the odds in their favor. Perhaps if the US citizen had that, we would have done better. At any rate, I'm glad I am retired and don't have to deal with this crap day to day, or worse, be unemployed and losing my house, car, and next meal.

@provels said in be honest are you worried about corona:

I suppose you could explain the elderly death count as "If a 70 year-old with high blood pressure slams his car into a tree, it wasn't really the tree that killed him".

US - 4% of the world population.
But 20% of the deaths.
We should have done better.

People list Sweden as an example. But their universal access to healthcare tilts the odds in their favor. Perhaps if the US citizen had that, we would have done better. At any rate, I'm glad I am retired and don't have to deal with this crap day to day, or worse, be unemployed and losing my house, car, and next meal.

We could have done better. That's the saddest thing. Think about it, we have a white house super spreader event. It's just appalling.

mcury

Here in Brazil, there is an odd statistic, we got less 30k deaths by pneumonia than last year, this never happened before.. This is happening to other diseases as well.
I suppose this may be happening all around the world, still, the virus is here, and we cannot run away.

guardian

@provels said in be honest are you worried about corona:

I suppose you could explain the elderly death count as "If a 70 year-old with high blood pressure slams his car into a tree, it wasn't really the tree that killed him".

US - 4% of the world population.
But 20% of the deaths.
We should have done better.

People list Sweden as an example. But their universal access to healthcare tilts the odds in their favor. Perhaps if the US citizen had that, we would have done better. At any rate, I'm glad I am retired and don't have to deal with this crap day to day, or worse, be unemployed and losing my house, car, and next meal.

You would have to do an autopsy to know... If the person had a heart attack and lost conciousness.... the princibal cause of death was really the heart attack. If he fainted because he was wearing a mask, then the mask killed him (I was speaking with a lady in Calgary Canada who was forced to wear a mask in Walmart to be able to buy necessities of life even though she had underlying health conditions. She fainted and hit her head and now has a serious brain injury.

US Health care is pretty FU due to corporate greed-pharma/hospitals. Unless you are a multi-millionare, you are one major accident/illness away from bankruptcy. Hospitals were getting $$ to put people on ventilators, so thats what they were doing. A lot of people died as a result. There also appears to be a $$ motivated suppression of effective treatments and nutrition. There are several European studies showing Vitamin D/Zinc kept people out of ICU and zero deaths.

I have a copy of a youtube video that has since been removed that was taken by a nurse in a US hospital. They were killing people. Maybe the hospitals have protection from liablility due to the pandemic, but I can tell you that if I was sitting a a jury and saw that video, I'd be happily awarding several million in damages.

We could have done better. That's the saddest thing. Think about it, we have a white house super spreader event. It's just appalling.

It will be interesting to see how that plays out - hopefully everyone will recover. My question is: What would we do if it was a bad flu? Flu does kill a lot of people--but there is no financial incentive to write it on the death certificate, so the elderly with underlying conditions get labeled as dying of the underlying condition.

@mcury said in be honest are you worried about corona:

Here in Brazil, there is an odd statistic, we got less 30k deaths by pneumonia than last year, this never happened before.. This is happening to other diseases as well.
I suppose this may be happening all around the world, still, the virus is here, and we cannot run away.

Likely any infectious disease is down if people are staying away from people and being very careful with hygene.

mcury

@guardian Nope, staying home would decrease car crashes, not pneumonia and heart attacks..

guardian

@mcury said in be honest are you worried about corona:

@guardian Nope, staying home would decrease car crashes, not pneumonia and heart attacks..

Why not pneumonia (at least short term)? Isolation may result in a weakend immune system.... don't really know. If so once people mix again there will be a big spike in all sorts of things (which may be incorrectly labeld as COVID).

AFAIK pneumonia can be either a primary or secondary infection. If people are isolated they won't get the primary infection, so there won't be a secondary infection. If I'm missing something, please share... thanks.

mcury

@guardian I'm not a doctor, so I won't be able to provide you details.

However, I suffer from asthma and bronchitis, and sometimes it evolves to pneumonia, this usually happens once a year, it was more common when I was younger, usually during the winter.
I can be extremely cautious, and still, I get sick.

Washing hands didn't save 30k, staying home also didn't save people.

The suicide rate for an example, increased 400% in Brazil.
Look at Argentina for an example, and other countries that took the Stay home and lock down more seriously, they have more deaths per million than any other.

What I can say is this, there are people that dies from covid, and people that dies with covid.
And they just don't care, they put everybody in covid's statistic.

I hope that every family that lost a parent, or a friend, to be OK.
But the true is, the numbers are not correct.

Gertjan

@mcury said in be honest are you worried about corona:

Washing hands didn't save 30k, staying home also didn't save people.

Are numbers that important ? Our society makes us think they are, as we should all belong to a 'category', we have to be 'part' of something. Apparently, that makes us feel better.

Let's face it : our government is NOT the new church : the ones that know the truth, that have access to all the wisdom. They just try to align an entire society, hoping that as many people will feel good. with the situation (they are just as lost as we all are).
Because we are humans, we 're not always agreeing. Seeing things differently, having your own opinion is something that tells you that you are alive - and are free to think what you want.

I'm pretty sure that washing your hands will protect you.
It's hard to prove with numbers, I agree, but the contrary is easy to prove : stop washing hands, and no, wait, stop washing anything. If you want to see death numbers, you'll have them, and they will be huge.
So, washing, and more specific : your hands, works. No master degree in mathematics needed here.

edit : cleaning keyboards and mice also helps ;)

And about the how to get sick - and this goes for any decease that is transmitted, as your body does not invent viruses by itself : if you 'stay home', that is : STOP all contact with any person (go live in the forest all by yourself for a year or so) I'm more then sure that anything can happen. But Co-19 won't be on the list.
And you know why. So, isolating yourself helps.
A nice test is going on for some decades now : those who stay in ISS didn't have any Co-19 ;)

The thing is : there are rules, laws, advises, etc. But we are humans, so we'll find our own exceptions for these restrictions all the time. So we 'break' them. because it's worth it for that occasion.

Let's face it : what's new today ? Was AIDS as a virus decease any different (not considering the way of transmission) ? All the hepatitis A B C ? The basic flu ? We just learned to live with them, accepted their existence.
And talk about AIDS : the virus(es) are all isolated, known, studied, analysed. Tens of billions have been thrown into studies. The guy who finds the 'final ' vaccines will be the richest man on the world - for ever. Still : no real cure. No vaccine.