Private Mac addresses in IOS14

@johnpoz said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

have no idea if that does anything at all or if it even matters if someone knows I buy corn flakes twice a month.

All comes down to how tight your tin foil hat is ;) heheheh

Sorry but the genie is out of the bottle.. Companies have figured out that information is money... The more information I have about user X, the more money I can make not off user X, but there are many ways to monetize that info in all kinds of new ways..

Hey milk company A, user X likes cereal - you could prob get him to buy your milk if you do xyz, etc..

Sure! Knowing that means what? I'm actually interested in others opinions. As you have said before, being concerned about such things while having your smart phone with you 24/7 may be missing the point. When is it wise (slightly better than a fools folly) to take steps to prevent tracking and when is it just so much wasted emotional energy?

johnpoz

Yeah there can be benefits to giving away your info, or always going to business X..

There is rock bottom by work.. With their reward card you get 10$ rewards for every 100 you spend.. I got there so much that I get now $10 reward on every $50 I spend..

The beer is not horrible, its very close to work, and its ok venue.. So sure - I have given up the privacy of letting them associate all purchases I make with my reward card.. But 20% cheaper beer is 20% cheaper beer ;) hehehe

I don't have a problem with it - but some people, who really if they want privacy - should only be using cash, don't frequent the same establishment... Should only be using burner phones, that they cycle every couple of months. etc. etc..

edit:

When is it wise (slightly better than a fools folly) to take steps to prevent tracking and when is it just so much wasted emotional energy?

Prevent what sort of tracking? To be honest, if your typical consumer? You can sure attempt to hide X from Y... But your not going to hide X from everyone, and X normally shares info and works with Y anyway.. It really becomes moot almost..

Lets look at it this way.. I block ads, not so much as to worried about ad company tracking that I clicked on ad X.. I just don't like looking at all of them... They make websites look like shit, etc.

To be honest the only way your going to get companies from tracking info about users for monetary reasons, is to regulate it.. But all that does is really force them to ask you if ok.. Which most users are going to say sure, for X discount, you can have my soul ;)

JKnott

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

I'm not a RF engineer but it appears to be passive blocking (faraday cage). Step outside the building and I get a full strength signal.

Actually, that's common with modern building construction, where reinforced concrete is used. I see the same thing in the grocery store where I shop. I get a great signal near the front, but not so great at the back of the store. Several years ago, I worked in the IBM Canada HQ. In there, once you got away from the windows, cell and even FM radio coverage would drop. A proper Faraday cage would be expensive and active blocking (jammers) is flat out illegal. There's a big convention centre in Toronto, where WiFi cost $400/day. They tried using jammers, until they were charged for violating the law. What was worse is it would even interfere with people out on the street, even though they were doing nothing more than walking by.

@JKnott said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

I'm not a RF engineer but it appears to be passive blocking (faraday cage). Step outside the building and I get a full strength signal.

Actually, that's common with modern building construction, where reinforced concrete is used. I see the same thing in the grocery store where I shop. I get a great signal near the front, but not so great at the back of the store. Several years ago, I worked in the IBM Canada HQ. In there, once you got away from the windows, cell and even FM radio coverage would drop. A proper Faraday cage would be expensive and active blocking (jammers) is flat out illegal. There's a big convention centre in Toronto, where WiFi cost $400/day. They tried using jammers, until they were charged for violating the law. What was worse is it would even interfere with people out on the street, even though they were doing nothing more than walking by.

My experience is this: no service 2 meters from the front wall at the register. Full strength signal 1 meter outside the building. I'll leave the conclusions to those with actual professional knowledge.

A quick search confirms that active jamming is not legal in the US.

johnpoz

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

A quick search confirms that active jamming is not legal in the US.

But using glass that blocks wifi, or other building materials that hamper wifi/cell not "active" jamming ;)

Always a way to skin a cat.. You just need to know what breed of cat it is ;)

@johnpoz said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

Yeah there can be benefits to giving away your info, or always going to business X..

There is rock bottom by work.. With their reward card you get 10$ rewards for every 100 you spend.. I got there so much that I get now $10 reward on every $50 I spend..

The beer is not horrible, its very close to work, and its ok venue.. So sure - I have given up the privacy of letting them associate all purchases I make with my reward card.. But 20% cheaper beer is 20% cheaper beer ;) hehehe

I don't have a problem with it - but some people, who really if they want privacy - should only be using cash, don't frequent the same establishment... Should only be using burner phones, that they cycle every couple of months. etc. etc..

edit:

When is it wise (slightly better than a fools folly) to take steps to prevent tracking and when is it just so much wasted emotional energy?

Prevent what sort of tracking? To be honest, if your typical consumer? You can sure attempt to hide X from Y... But your not going to hide X from everyone, and X normally shares info and works with Y anyway.. It really becomes moot almost..

Lets look at it this way.. I block ads, not so much as to worried about ad company tracking that I clicked on ad X.. I just don't like looking at all of them... They make websites look like shit, etc.

To be honest the only way your going to get companies from tracking info about users for monetary reasons, is to regulate it.. But all that does is really force them to ask you if ok.. Which most users are going to say sure, for X discount, you can have my soul ;)

One thing is certain. The more money that can be made the more sophisticated the tracking will get and more money will be spent to influence legislative approaches.

JKnott

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

A quick search confirms that active jamming is not legal in the US.

You may want to let the FCC know. They seem to have other ideas.

"Operation of a jammer in the United States may subject you to substantial monetary penalties, seizure of the unlawful equipment, and criminal sanctions including imprisonment."

@JKnott Yeah. not legal is what I wrote. Should have bolded the not bit.

Derelict

@johnpoz Yeah. I figured out that Total Wine was only about 0.5% and stopped using their card because an easy-for-them database of everything I bought there wasn't worth that. For 20% I would have easily used it.

johnpoz

@Derelict said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

For 20% I would have easily used it.

Oh man this damn covid - hope they are not doing the reset because they were closed for while.. I might need to make a visit here soon to keep my visit count active.. Looks like they reset it if no purchases in 6 months..

Back in the day (I like saying that sometimes) I worked on a data driven marketing system for MCI. A few years on either side of the year 2000. Two terabytes of data from a bunch of sources like Credit Card processors and the like. Predicting the likely success of up-selling customers other services. Sounds like child's play now but that was a huge DB at the time. A room full of SaS drives attached to a 50 node IBM SP2.

The correlations found were, to me at least, surprising. The size (bigger) of the engine in your car was a positive indication for buying an international calling package. I don't recall others. I do remember that those annoying dinner time calls went from ~20% success to ~80% success.

I don't recall there being any concern expressed about doing that from any of the development team. Maybe we were too involved in the, at the time, very cool toys we got to use.

How things have changed.

johnpoz

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

The size (bigger) of the engine in your car was a positive indication for buying an international calling package.

This is actually a good example of how information can be extrapolated to be used in other areas.. How exactly do you hide that data.. Is it even private? Even if you just bought your car for cash off some guy on craigs list..

You have to register it to drive it on the roads, depending on where you live you also have to insure it.. Is this information on what car you drive secret? Is it personal? Is it private.

You got the new CA laws saying sites can not even store or use some random IP address that might be from CA.. But then you have the CA DMV selling off all kinds of info about you..

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a32035408/dmv-selling-driver-data/

That users think handing their dns over to some other company vs their ISP or VPN actual hides what your doing from anyone other than your ISP.. Which now vpn company now has this info you handed then on a silver platter, along with your money - for the "promise" that they don't do anything with that data is just funny as hell to be honest.

If you think your phone changing its mac address protects you or hides you.. Come on - really?

@johnpoz said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

The size (bigger) of the engine in your car was a positive indication for buying an international calling package.

This is actually a good example of how information can be extrapolated to be used in other areas.. How exactly do you hide that data.. Is it even private? Even if you just bought your car for cash off some guy on craigs list..

You have to register it to drive it on the roads, depending on where you live you also have to insure it.. Is this information on what car you drive secret? Is it personal? Is it private.

You got the new CA laws saying sites can not even store or use some random IP address that might be from CA.. But then you have the CA DMV selling off all kinds of info about you..

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a32035408/dmv-selling-driver-data/

That users think handing their dns over to some other company vs their ISP or VPN actual hides what your doing from anyone other than your ISP.. Which now vpn company now has this info you handed then on a silver platter, along with your money - for the "promise" that they don't do anything with that data is just funny as hell to be honest.

If you think your phone changing its mac address protects you or hides you.. Come on - really?

Yup. Playing wack-a-mole is not going to be of much value and no fun at all.

Not that I get to say the last word but...

Know one thing. Using pfSense gets you a secure out of the box gateway. You have to do things to make it insecure.

johnpoz

You know what it does do - it placates the users.. Oh Apple/Android cares about my privacy, see they are hiding me from bad man xyz..

When all they are really doing is making it harder for company xyz to gather info, so making that info they have all that more valuable.

Don't use your local dns - they stop you from going here, we will let you go there ;) We will protect you from all the bad stuff way better than your local stuff can do..

When has giving more info and control to 1 company ever worked out for the user? They are not in it to protect users privacy.. They are in for money.. Information is money, the more of it they have, the more money they can make..

The battle was lost years and years ago.. To be honest unless you want to go live in a cabin in the woods.. There really isn't much you can do about it other than embrace the suck to be honest..

@johnpoz said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

You know what it does do - it placates the users.. Oh Apple/Android cares about my privacy, see they are hiding me from bad man xyz..

When all they are really doing is making it harder for company xyz to gather info, so making that info they have all that more valuable.

Don't use your local dns - they stop you from going here, we will let you go there ;) We will protect you from all the bad stuff way better than your local stuff can do..

When has giving more info and control to 1 company ever worked out for the user? They are not in it to protect users privacy.. They are in for money.. Information is money, the more of it they have, the more money they can make..

The battle was lost years and years ago.. To be honest unless you want to go live in a cabin in the woods.. There really isn't much you can do about it other than embrace the suck to be honest..

No all that different from green washing if you think about it. Look at my green hybrid but please ignore the ~~mercury~~ toxic metals in the batteries.

johnpoz

Yeah true...

I am using solar, and my previous car was a hybrid.. But not because they were good for the planet - mind you kind of hope they are..

Was the sole reason I went solar, or had a hybrid to do my part in saving the world.. No - the biggest reason was it saved me money ;) That's being honest..

Lets say going solar was the answer, and would slow down or stop climate change.. How many people do you think would be putting it on their homes if it cost X more than electric from the electric company? But hey its going to save you X dollars over course of X amount of time.. Then you get lots of people jumping on that band wagon..

Just like hey let us control DNS, its going to protect everyone from those bad isp monetizing your info.. Sorry but I call BS ;) There clearly is something in for them, other than protecting the users rights to privacy that is for damn sure.

AKEGEC

What, did Whole Foods change your provider without your consent?
Last time I bought Bree cheeses from Roseslane brand with a discount for $39.60 and I didn’t notice any changes on my phone. Are you sure about this or your phone just set to pick the best provider in your location?

@AKEGEC said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:

What, did Whole Foods change your provider without your consent?
Last time I bought Bree cheeses from Roseslane brand with a discount for $39.60 and I didn’t notice any changes on my phone. Are you sure about this or your phone just set to pick the best provider in your location?

No. Not sure they could do that even if they wanted.

You can't get a cellular signal in the stores, you can only use their in-store wifi if you want to checkout using the Amazon App (at three stores in my immediate local area).

I'm not sure why they would do that. They can gather all the data they want because you're using their app.

johnpoz

So here is the thing get inside a big box made of concrete and steel, and wonder why you cell coverage doesn't work?

Its more likely that the company has just not put in a femtocell or microcell to provide cell inside their big faraday cage your in..

And while sure maybe you can pick up the signal from your carrier big cell tower right outside the building.. But can your phones little transmitter get back??

To the company it very well could be hey - lets help lack of cell phone internet connection, and provide wifi.. Vs putting in a femtocell..

So is the Store out to get you, are they tracking you by forcing you to use their wifi? Or is just physics and cells just do not work in side the big steel concrete box, or through the special UV light filtering and double pane filled with argon gas, special save the company on heating and cooling bills glass.

And it was better for them to provide wifi vs putting in say a femtocell to allow you to get your cell working inside their box for data..

@johnpoz Yeah. And more to the point, why would they? They can already harvest what they are interested in from your use of the Amazon app. I do NOT see conspiracy here just the need to jump on someones wifi and the relationship to the topic of this thread, random MAC addresses.

Random MAC addresses, to me, buy the privacy minded individual little. A few cases where there might (unproven, at least to me) be custom tracking ability built into the AP. If you use McDonald's or your malls wifi you are already consenting to a bunch of tracking.

Whole Foods is the only store I can't get any coverage in. I guess that says something. I also don't go to many grocery stores, I prefer the farmers market and the (lucky for me, I think) local old school butcher shop. At this point I will defer to @Derelict and agree that if you don't like it don't go there.