Private Mac addresses in IOS14
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@Derelict said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
@jwj Force is still a strong word. If you don't like their policies don't shop there.
Maybe you missed the part where I said I got your point. I'll repeat it here: "So, point taken, I could just pay full price and not access their network."
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Yeah persuade or direct, nudge might be better terms vs force ;)
I can still just use them as amazon showroom... Without any internet access there, just know before hand what I want to look at.. Go look at them, and then order or not when get home.
Saving a nickel on the all natural peanut butter though - this really is heavy handed forcing if you ask me ;) hehehe
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@johnpoz said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
Yeah persuade or direct, nudge might be better terms vs force ;)
I can still just use them as amazon showroom... Without any internet access there, just know before hand what I want to look at.. Go look at them, and then order or not when get home.
Saving a nickel on the all natural peanut butter though - this really is heavy handed forcing if you ask me ;) hehehe
Cost-Benefit. On a personal level: natural peanut butter? Yuck ;)
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Security vs convenience, the eternal trade-off.
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@stephenw10 said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
Security vs convenience, the eternal trade-off
So true, so true.. But not only "security" privacy as well.. Do I really want to make it easy for store xyz to know my purchasing habits, for the X% discount they give me if I use their rewards card, etc.
People screaming about privacy, yet give their info away freely if there is anything in it for them that they value more... Like 0.05% discount on purchases, or get 1 free after I buy 5.. etc..
And then scream about getting ads for XYZ in the store app on their phone - how did they know I like that?
You can not have your cake and eat it too.. The whole reason company gives you discount X, is they know they will pull you back more often, or can use that info to get you to buy more, or sell that info to someone else - So they end up making way more than the tiny discount/reward they give you..
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MVP, VIC, VIP, etc cards. I do have loyalty cards associated with xxx-555-1212. I have no idea if that does anything at all or if it even matters if someone knows I buy corn flakes twice a month.
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@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
have no idea if that does anything at all or if it even matters if someone knows I buy corn flakes twice a month.
All comes down to how tight your tin foil hat is ;) heheheh
Sorry but the genie is out of the bottle.. Companies have figured out that information is money... The more information I have about user X, the more money I can make if not off user X directly, there are many ways to monetize that info in all kinds of new ways..
Hey milk company A, user X likes cereal - you could prob get him to buy your milk if you do xyz, etc.. For every user name I give you that uses products that would go good with your product, just give me X money..
An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
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SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11 -
I navigated Vegas casino promotions for a few years looking for an edge.
Grocery shopping is exponentially more difficult.
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@johnpoz said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
have no idea if that does anything at all or if it even matters if someone knows I buy corn flakes twice a month.
All comes down to how tight your tin foil hat is ;) heheheh
Sorry but the genie is out of the bottle.. Companies have figured out that information is money... The more information I have about user X, the more money I can make not off user X, but there are many ways to monetize that info in all kinds of new ways..
Hey milk company A, user X likes cereal - you could prob get him to buy your milk if you do xyz, etc..
Sure! Knowing that means what? I'm actually interested in others opinions. As you have said before, being concerned about such things while having your smart phone with you 24/7 may be missing the point. When is it wise (slightly better than a fools folly) to take steps to prevent tracking and when is it just so much wasted emotional energy?
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Yeah there can be benefits to giving away your info, or always going to business X..
There is rock bottom by work.. With their reward card you get 10$ rewards for every 100 you spend.. I got there so much that I get now $10 reward on every $50 I spend..
The beer is not horrible, its very close to work, and its ok venue.. So sure - I have given up the privacy of letting them associate all purchases I make with my reward card.. But 20% cheaper beer is 20% cheaper beer ;) hehehe
I don't have a problem with it - but some people, who really if they want privacy - should only be using cash, don't frequent the same establishment... Should only be using burner phones, that they cycle every couple of months. etc. etc..
edit:
When is it wise (slightly better than a fools folly) to take steps to prevent tracking and when is it just so much wasted emotional energy?
Prevent what sort of tracking? To be honest, if your typical consumer? You can sure attempt to hide X from Y... But your not going to hide X from everyone, and X normally shares info and works with Y anyway.. It really becomes moot almost..
Lets look at it this way.. I block ads, not so much as to worried about ad company tracking that I clicked on ad X.. I just don't like looking at all of them... They make websites look like shit, etc.
To be honest the only way your going to get companies from tracking info about users for monetary reasons, is to regulate it.. But all that does is really force them to ask you if ok.. Which most users are going to say sure, for X discount, you can have my soul ;)
An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools
If you get confused: Listen to the Music Play
Please don't Chat/PM me for help, unless mod related
SG-4860 24.11 | Lab VMs 2.8, 24.11 -
@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
I'm not a RF engineer but it appears to be passive blocking (faraday cage). Step outside the building and I get a full strength signal.
Actually, that's common with modern building construction, where reinforced concrete is used. I see the same thing in the grocery store where I shop. I get a great signal near the front, but not so great at the back of the store. Several years ago, I worked in the IBM Canada HQ. In there, once you got away from the windows, cell and even FM radio coverage would drop. A proper Faraday cage would be expensive and active blocking (jammers) is flat out illegal. There's a big convention centre in Toronto, where WiFi cost $400/day. They tried using jammers, until they were charged for violating the law. What was worse is it would even interfere with people out on the street, even though they were doing nothing more than walking by.
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@JKnott said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
I'm not a RF engineer but it appears to be passive blocking (faraday cage). Step outside the building and I get a full strength signal.
Actually, that's common with modern building construction, where reinforced concrete is used. I see the same thing in the grocery store where I shop. I get a great signal near the front, but not so great at the back of the store. Several years ago, I worked in the IBM Canada HQ. In there, once you got away from the windows, cell and even FM radio coverage would drop. A proper Faraday cage would be expensive and active blocking (jammers) is flat out illegal. There's a big convention centre in Toronto, where WiFi cost $400/day. They tried using jammers, until they were charged for violating the law. What was worse is it would even interfere with people out on the street, even though they were doing nothing more than walking by.
My experience is this: no service 2 meters from the front wall at the register. Full strength signal 1 meter outside the building. I'll leave the conclusions to those with actual professional knowledge.
A quick search confirms that active jamming is not legal in the US.
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@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
A quick search confirms that active jamming is not legal in the US.
But using glass that blocks wifi, or other building materials that hamper wifi/cell not "active" jamming ;)
Always a way to skin a cat.. You just need to know what breed of cat it is ;)
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@johnpoz said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
Yeah there can be benefits to giving away your info, or always going to business X..
There is rock bottom by work.. With their reward card you get 10$ rewards for every 100 you spend.. I got there so much that I get now $10 reward on every $50 I spend..
The beer is not horrible, its very close to work, and its ok venue.. So sure - I have given up the privacy of letting them associate all purchases I make with my reward card.. But 20% cheaper beer is 20% cheaper beer ;) hehehe
I don't have a problem with it - but some people, who really if they want privacy - should only be using cash, don't frequent the same establishment... Should only be using burner phones, that they cycle every couple of months. etc. etc..
edit:
When is it wise (slightly better than a fools folly) to take steps to prevent tracking and when is it just so much wasted emotional energy?
Prevent what sort of tracking? To be honest, if your typical consumer? You can sure attempt to hide X from Y... But your not going to hide X from everyone, and X normally shares info and works with Y anyway.. It really becomes moot almost..
Lets look at it this way.. I block ads, not so much as to worried about ad company tracking that I clicked on ad X.. I just don't like looking at all of them... They make websites look like shit, etc.
To be honest the only way your going to get companies from tracking info about users for monetary reasons, is to regulate it.. But all that does is really force them to ask you if ok.. Which most users are going to say sure, for X discount, you can have my soul ;)
One thing is certain. The more money that can be made the more sophisticated the tracking will get and more money will be spent to influence legislative approaches.
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@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
A quick search confirms that active jamming is not legal in the US.
You may want to let the FCC know. They seem to have other ideas.
"Operation of a jammer in the United States may subject you to substantial monetary penalties, seizure of the unlawful equipment, and criminal sanctions including imprisonment."
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@JKnott Yeah. not legal is what I wrote. Should have bolded the not bit.
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@johnpoz Yeah. I figured out that Total Wine was only about 0.5% and stopped using their card because an easy-for-them database of everything I bought there wasn't worth that. For 20% I would have easily used it.
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@Derelict said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
For 20% I would have easily used it.
Oh man this damn covid - hope they are not doing the reset because they were closed for while.. I might need to make a visit here soon to keep my visit count active.. Looks like they reset it if no purchases in 6 months..
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Back in the day (I like saying that sometimes) I worked on a data driven marketing system for MCI. A few years on either side of the year 2000. Two terabytes of data from a bunch of sources like Credit Card processors and the like. Predicting the likely success of up-selling customers other services. Sounds like child's play now but that was a huge DB at the time. A room full of SaS drives attached to a 50 node IBM SP2.
The correlations found were, to me at least, surprising. The size (bigger) of the engine in your car was a positive indication for buying an international calling package. I don't recall others. I do remember that those annoying dinner time calls went from ~20% success to ~80% success.
I don't recall there being any concern expressed about doing that from any of the development team. Maybe we were too involved in the, at the time, very cool toys we got to use.
How things have changed.
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@jwj said in Private Mac addresses in IOS14:
The size (bigger) of the engine in your car was a positive indication for buying an international calling package.
This is actually a good example of how information can be extrapolated to be used in other areas.. How exactly do you hide that data.. Is it even private? Even if you just bought your car for cash off some guy on craigs list..
You have to register it to drive it on the roads, depending on where you live you also have to insure it.. Is this information on what car you drive secret? Is it personal? Is it private.
You got the new CA laws saying sites can not even store or use some random IP address that might be from CA.. But then you have the CA DMV selling off all kinds of info about you..
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a32035408/dmv-selling-driver-data/
That users think handing their dns over to some other company vs their ISP or VPN actual hides what your doing from anyone other than your ISP.. Which now vpn company now has this info you handed then on a silver platter, along with your money - for the "promise" that they don't do anything with that data is just funny as hell to be honest.
If you think your phone changing its mac address protects you or hides you.. Come on - really?
