Average writes to Disk

fireodo · Aug 12, 2021, 7:08 PM

@johnpoz said in Average writes to Disk:

My desktop model sg4860 has eMMC not ssd.. Which also have limited life writes..

Is that eMMC replaceable?

johnpoz · Aug 12, 2021, 7:24 PM

I don't think so - not easy... But I think there is something missing here on what is actually being written.

So from my understanding zpool iostat shows total since boot..

[21.05.1-RELEASE][admin@sg4860.local.lan]/: zpool iostat
               capacity     operations    bandwidth
pool        alloc   free   read  write   read  write
----------  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----
zroot        969M  25.1G      0     10    645   227K
[21.05.1-RELEASE][admin@sg4860.local.lan]/:

My box has been up for days.. Since I updated it to 21.05.1

Uptime 6 Days 02 Hours 12 Minutes 47 Seconds

edit: Well that can not be since boot... Not exactly sure what that reads to be honest.. But if you have it report every 2 seconds.

[21.05.1-RELEASE][admin@sg4860.local.lan]/: zpool iostat zroot 2
               capacity     operations    bandwidth
pool        alloc   free   read  write   read  write
----------  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----  -----
zroot        970M  25.1G      0     10    645   227K
zroot        970M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        968M  25.1G      0     34      0   552K
zroot        968M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        967M  25.1G      0     35      0   624K
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        967M  25.1G      0     38      0   532K
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        967M  25.1G      0     33      0   602K
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        967M  25.1G      0     34      0   520K
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        967M  25.1G      0     33      0   618K
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        967M  25.1G      0     33      0   531K
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        967M  25.1G      0     33      0   621K
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      0      0      0
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      7      0   114K
zroot        967M  25.1G      0     24      0   415K
zroot        967M  25.1G      0      0      0      0

fireodo · Aug 12, 2021, 7:34 PM

@johnpoz Here is my output - I'm also no ZFS expert!
As far as I see not much different ...
zpool iostat
capacity operations bandwidth
pool alloc free read write read write

zroot 808M 11.7G 0 12 319 214K

zpool iostat zroot 2
capacity operations bandwidth
pool alloc free read write read write

zroot 807M 11.7G 0 12 319 214K
zroot 808M 11.7G 0 35 0 623K
zroot 808M 11.7G 0 30 0 432K
zroot 808M 11.7G 0 1 0 8.00K
zroot 808M 11.7G 0 0 0 0
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 36 0 535K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 0 0 0
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 32 0 442K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 0 0 0
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 2 0 28.0K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 35 0 618K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 0 0 0
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 32 0 420K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 3 0 22.0K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 0 0 0
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 35 0 486K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 0 0 0
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 32 0 442K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 0 0 7.99K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 0 0 5.98K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 32 0 442K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 0 0 0
zroot 806M 11.7G 0 1 0 14.0K
zroot 806M 11.7G 0 2 0 28.0K
zroot 806M 11.7G 0 1 0 14.0K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 33 0 442K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 0 0 0
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 31 0 428K
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 0 0 0
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 0 0 0
zroot 807M 11.7G 0 10 0 623K
zroot 808M 11.7G 0 33 0 547K
zroot 808M 11.7G 0 35 0 498K
zroot 808M 11.7G 0 1 0 14.0K

mcury · Aug 12, 2021, 8:01 PM

SG-3100 - 21.05.1 - pfblockerng dnsbl python mode enabled

iostat -d 5 6

fireodo · Aug 12, 2021, 8:03 PM

@mcury I guess FS is UFS and not ZFS ...

mcury · Aug 12, 2021, 8:05 PM

@fireodo said in Average writes to Disk:

@mcury I guess FS is UFS and not ZFS ...

Indeed, UFS here, noatime in fstab

fireodo · Aug 12, 2021, 8:06 PM

@mcury said in Average writes to Disk:

@fireodo said in Average writes to Disk:

@mcury I guess FS is UFS and not ZFS ...

Indeed, UFS here, noatime in fstab

So it seams to cristallise that ZFS is the problem ...

keyser · Aug 13, 2021, 7:06 AM

@mcury said in Average writes to Disk:

SG-3100 - 21.05.1 - pfblockerng dnsbl python mode enabled

iostat -d 5 6

This is really interesting because your box does not suffer from sustained writing from UNBOUND (caused by pfBlockerNG in python mode).
That would suggest it’s a setting or configuration detail that causes the issue.

I wonder what that might be. I think my setup is fairly default, but I have pfBlockerNG creating alias lists instead of it’s own rules.

Maybe we should start a thread with pfBlockerNG configs to see if we can find the root configuration cause for sustained writing to disk in pfBlockerNG?

keyser · Aug 13, 2021, 7:49 AM

@keyser Just as a follow up I think I have now tried EVERY possible setting in my pfBlockerNG setup in terms of making it “quiet” on disk writes.
Nothing sticks - No lists, no logging enabled anywhere, nothing - and still I have a UNBOUND process that writes on average about 380 Kb/s to disk if python mode is enabled.
If I disable Python mode or disable pfBlockerNG in general, UNBOUND no longer does it’s sustained disk writing.

So what could cause that behavior?

fireodo · Aug 13, 2021, 8:25 AM

@keyser said in Average writes to Disk:

Just as a follow up I think I have now tried EVERY possible setting in my pfBlockerNG setup

Good Morning (here it is),

I do not think pfblockerNG (in my case) is the culprit - I just set up a APU2 machine that was yesterday with ZFS and now with UFS and ... voilà: the writings are GONE!

iostat -d 5 6
md0 ada0 pass0
KB/t tps MB/s KB/t tps MB/s KB/t tps MB/s
0.00 0 0.00 22.55 13 0.30 0.38 0 0.00
0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00
0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00
0.00 0 0.00 4.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00
0.00 0 0.00 4.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00
0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00 0.00 0 0.00

This seams to prove my suspicion from yesterday that ZFS is causing the heavy writings to disk even if no service is activated on the firewall.

PS. Here the same machine with the same config but ZFS:
iostat -d 5 6
md0 ada0 pass0
KB/t tps MB/s KB/t tps MB/s KB/t tps MB/s
0.00 1 0.00 16.67 41 0.67 0.38 0 0.00
0.00 0 0.00 11.29 26 0.28 0.00 0 0.00
0.00 0 0.00 14.13 19 0.26 0.00 0 0.00
0.00 0 0.00 12.38 21 0.25 0.00 0 0.00
0.00 0 0.00 14.70 19 0.27 0.00 0 0.00
0.00 0 0.00 14.06 21 0.29 0.00 0 0.00

Have a good trip to weekend ...
fireodo

tomashk · Aug 13, 2021, 8:22 AM

I hope I remember correctly, but zfs by default writes every 5 seconds if there is anything to write. Also it depends on type of write operation (synchronous or asynchronous). Because it is easy to revert copy of the pfsense configuration I changed a little zfs configuration on my device (but with it there is a little bit bigger chance of problems in case of not clean shutdown)

So for my device I changed the following:

make all writes asynchronous (probably won't help much here, but software doesn't have to wait for OS to finish writing)

zfs set sync=disabled zroot

System -> Advanced -> System Tunables - set vfs.zfs.txg.timeout to 180 - it will increase time between writes from 5s to 180s; during this time all operations will happen in RAM; but writes could happen earlier if there is too much to write (also OS is able to force writing earlier - I'm not expert so I don't know all conditions); for me write happens once or twice during said 3 minutes
because there is bigger chance of failure with 180s I made zfs to write everything twice (I have 100GB SSD so it is not problem); this won't guaranty data safety, but still (works only for newly written data - old won't be touched)

zfs set copies=2 zroot

That works for me. Please read about it before changing anything. Or at least have configuration backup before you try.

tohil · Aug 13, 2021, 8:33 AM

I use ZFS also but with RAM disks. this will reduce the writes to the ssd massively, right?

  KB/t tps  MB/s   KB/t tps  MB/s   KB/t tps  MB/s   KB/t tps  MB/s
  0.00   1  0.00   0.00   1  0.00  13.97   1  0.01   0.00   0  0.00
  0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00
  0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00
  0.00   0  0.00   0.00  12  0.00   7.86  23  0.18   0.00   0  0.00
  0.00   2  0.00   0.00   2  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00
  0.00   3  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00

fireodo · Aug 13, 2021, 8:39 AM

@tomashk

I followed your suggestions and it looks good:

iostat -d 5 6
             md0             ada0            pass0
  KB/t tps  MB/s   KB/t tps  MB/s   KB/t tps  MB/s
  0.00   0  0.00  15.55  14  0.21   0.38   0  0.00
  0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00
  0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00
  0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00
  0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00
  0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00   0.00   0  0.00

This is the production machine where initially I found that heavy writing. I give it 24 hours and keep an eye also on the LBA_written.

Thanks anyway!
fireodo

fireodo · Aug 13, 2021, 8:45 AM

@tomashk said in Average writes to Disk:

zfs set sync=disabled zroot

Is this command permanent or has it to be made on each reboot? Thanks

tohil · Aug 13, 2021, 8:59 AM

This is the SMART Test output from one of my boxes, APU2 Board with 16GB SSD...
241 Lifetime_Writes_GiB shows GB count written.... -> 4176.278 TB???? no way....

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       8694
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       42
168 SATA_Phy_Error_Count    0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
170 Bad_Blk_Ct_Erl/Lat      0x0013   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0/20
173 MaxAvgErase_Ct          0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       385 (Average 775)
192 Unsafe_Shutdown_Count   0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       4
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0023   070   070   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       30
196 Not_In_Use              0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
218 CRC_Error_Count         0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
241 Lifetime_Writes_GiB     0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       4176278

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Extended captive    Completed without error       00%      8694         -
# 2  Short captive       Completed without error       00%      8694         -
# 3  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      2557         -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 0
Note: revision number not 1 implies that no selective self-test has ever been run
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

fireodo · Aug 13, 2021, 9:06 AM

@tohil said in Average writes to Disk:

241 Lifetime_Writes_GiB shows GB count written.... -> 4176.278 TB???? no way....

Smart is always Device specific - you have to dig for the correct interpretation of those values ... 4 PB is heavy and I don't believe it even its theoretically possible ...

tomashk · Aug 13, 2021, 9:20 AM

@fireodo said in Average writes to Disk:

@tomashk said in Average writes to Disk:

zfs set sync=disabled zroot

Is this command permanent or has it to be made on each reboot? Thanks

It is permanent. You can check if it is set with this command:

zfs get -r sync zroot

(it will show information for whole zfs file system)

and you can revert it with this command if I remember correctly:

zfs set sync=enabled zroot

fireodo · Aug 13, 2021, 10:02 AM

@tomashk

Thank you! Those settings do the trick! Maybe @jimp can take a look on this thread and maybe its something for the next version ...?

Regards,
fireodo

johnpoz · Aug 13, 2021, 10:17 AM

Yeah I would hope that the default settings used for zfs install wouldn't be a determinant to life of SSD or eMMC would have issues with total writes as well..

I don't know of a way to check what eMMC reports for total life write, etc.

fireodo · Aug 13, 2021, 10:31 AM

@johnpoz said in Average writes to Disk:

I don't know of a way to check what eMMC reports for total life write, etc.

As I don't have any device here with eMMC (OK, except my Phone but that's out of my research-reach :-D ) I cannot say anything about it. Is it smart capable? Documentation says its a kind of predecesor of SD-Card ...